1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured How we know that there was no Flood of Noah.

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Subduction Zone, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,647
    Ratings:
    +13,029
    Religion:
    Atheist
    There are many different interpretations of the Noah's Ark myth in Genesis. From my experience all of them can be shown to have never occurred. My only assumption here will be that it God exists he does not lie.

    Of course I can't demonstrate a concept to be in error until people clearly state their beliefs. So please tell us what you mean by the Floor and we can discuss your version.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    20,832
    Ratings:
    +8,803
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Cacotopia

    Cacotopia Let's go full Trottle

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    Messages:
    2,421
    Ratings:
    +1,376
    Religion:
    Atheist
    12039402_1055293534502976_6482773991176786085_n.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    36,698
    Ratings:
    +10,019
    Religion:
    Judaism
    The Noah Flood Narrative is the Babylonian myth partially demythologized and refracted through the lens of a primitive ethical monotheism.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,647
    Ratings:
    +13,029
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Yes, a myth retold as a morality tale. That is the one approach that works.

    When people try to treat it as history is when they run into trouble.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    36,698
    Ratings:
    +10,019
    Religion:
    Judaism
    It is, first and foremost, a theological polemic which invests a monotheistic god with moral purpose. That you find it to be ahistorical as well is underwhelming at best.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,647
    Ratings:
    +13,029
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Five dollar words do not help your case. Honesty is the best policy.
     
  8. Misunderstood

    Misunderstood Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    377
    Ratings:
    +305
    Religion:
    Christian
    OK, I've got a little time tonight. To get started I will start by saying my belief is as stated in the Bible, it would take a while to state all I think, so I will start with that.

    So what part do you want to discuss?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,647
    Ratings:
    +13,029
    Religion:
    Atheist
    That is a meaningless statement since everyone tends to say that. Do you believe that every last bit of land was covered by water as the Bible rather clearly says?
     
  10. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    15,544
    Ratings:
    +3,693
    Religion:
    Pi π
    The Genesis Flood don’t make sense, whether it be global flood or regional flood.

    Covering all the highest mountains would indicate global flood. The amount of water required is enormous and impossible, as Cacotopia’s quote indicated.

    Plus, if it was global, then should be evidences of such flood, all over the world, but there are no evidences of it, from archaeological and geological standpoints.

    Plus the human tolls would have taken hundreds of years to recover.

    For instance, if the flood occurred in 2340 BCE, then there shouldn’t be pyramid building in Egypt for centuries, and yet Egyptians were still building pyramids for their kings throughout the 6th dynasty (eg Teti, Pepi I, Merenre I and Pepi II at Saqqara).

    These (6th dynasty) pyramids may be a lot smaller than the famous 4th dynasty pyramids at Giza, it would still require large manpower to carry out such construction.

    There should be shortage of workers if Egypt had suffered from the Flood.

    Regional flood even make less sense. Like why try to save so many animals if it is only a regional flood? Why build the ark of that size?

    And if Noah was a prophet and the flood was only regional flooding, wouldn’t it make more sense to move to another location not affected by the flood, instead of building a large vessel? He had a 100 years warning, which mean he and his family could have travel on foot to any location on the Eurasian continents.

    Alexander the Great had army of 40,000 men at the start, and those that remain in his services, reach the Indian subcontinent in matter of 10 years. Imagine how far Noah could have travelled in 100 years with only 8 adults?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,647
    Ratings:
    +13,029
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Yes, the evidence against the flood is monumental. I wonder if anyone that believes that story will accept the evidence. If they don't they are forgetting the one assumption that I made in the OP.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Misunderstood

    Misunderstood Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    377
    Ratings:
    +305
    Religion:
    Christian
    So you want to discuss the earth being covered with water? Sorry what I said was meaningless, but I was jut trying to get a direction to go as there are so many. My answer to your question is for the most part yes.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,647
    Ratings:
    +13,029
    Religion:
    Atheist
  14. Misunderstood

    Misunderstood Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    377
    Ratings:
    +305
    Religion:
    Christian
    I know I haven't been here for a while and I hit the wrong button. I have made an edit to it with my answer.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,647
    Ratings:
    +13,029
    Religion:
    Atheist
    The the simple fact that ice floats alone debunks your claims. The ice caps at Greenland and Antarctica have been there for millions of years, before man ever stepped on the Earth. They would not have survived the flood. Also a flood of that order would leave massive evidence, yet there is none. Remember my one assumption that God does not lie? The only explanations that I have heard for the lack of evidence ultimately all rely on a lying God.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Misunderstood

    Misunderstood Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    377
    Ratings:
    +305
    Religion:
    Christian
    Since we are starting into this I want to say my faith neither stands or falls on the flood being true. So I will not be offended if you do not go along with anything I say. I do however believe it to be true, we may not fully understand what is said or are misinterpreting what is said.

    I do not feel there were icecaps before the flood, why do you believe they were? I assume by their age, but how do you know they are millions of years old?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. Misunderstood

    Misunderstood Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    377
    Ratings:
    +305
    Religion:
    Christian
    I feel there is massive evidence. It is said before the flood that the earth was basically flat and there were no oceans. Everything was watered from the deep.

    So if you believe that; the oceans and mountains are the evidence. If you believe that the earth was the same before the flood as it is today I guess there is no evidence.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    8,269
    Ratings:
    +5,783
    Religion:
    Catholic
    There are plenty of people who believe the Flood myth is based on some real world event, or possibly several different incidents rolled into one. Personally, I like the theory of "The Flood" being a garbled cultural memory of the Black Sea Inundation event. There were certainly humans living in the basin that is now the Black Sea, and the event certainly would have seemed Apocalyptic to them. It also seems geographically pertinent to the various cultures that believed the myth.

    Other contenders I'm aware of are the Red Sea inundation or even just an unusually high Mesopotamian seasonal flood.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    20,832
    Ratings:
    +8,803
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    How long ago do you think the flood was? Where did the water come from? Where did it go? Why do you think the Earth was flat, when there is so much evidence to the contrary?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    23,647
    Ratings:
    +13,029
    Religion:
    Atheist
    I am not a fan of that one. If you do the math you will find that the rate of inundation was rapid enough to drown cities, but not people. It was a flood that people could have literally crawled away from.

    Instead I like the candidate in this article:

    Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...