How to prove God.

[Spirit of Light]

Any that would lead to the conclusion that there is a creator of the universe. Or any that suggests the existence of a supernatural. Or any that suggests a being that responds to prayers.

What kind of evidence is available? I am open to considering any evidence.

In my own practice the "evidence" i have recieved has been personal to my own practice, and not a physical evidence of Allah, but in deeper wisdom of the the sufi teaching, a calmer mind and every part of hate i did once carry within my mind has been removed and replaced with love toward every being in this world, the inner form of love can of course become stronger yet, but it is down to my own practice.

So no i can not physically prove to a non believer that Allah exist, that they must experience for them self
So i can not and will not try to prove or force others to believe

 

[F1fan]

Do it with an open mind.

Just pray and tell God that you are willing to look at the evidence with an open mind, and let good guide you to the evidence and arguments that would be good enough for you.

An open mind doesn't mean suspending objectivity and reason, yes? Making a competent conclusion requires adequate facts and few assumptions.

 

[an anarchist]

I would say that this would require getting rid of all intellectualism.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, what I meant is that you must do your best to remove any confirmation bias (for or against god) and simply look at the evidence with an open mind.

Taking it as given that you can carry on a conversation with God is not "looking at thr evidence with an open mind."

 

[F1fan]

Prayer is a short cut for God to reveal himself and if you ask him for miracles by the hands of the guide and won't accuse the guide of sorcery if he does such signs, then it will be shown to you in my faith,

Yet God never reveals itself to those who don't assume it exists first. This suggests God is imaginary.

this is what I believe.

And since you are a fallible mortal you could be in error in your beliefs.

 

[Link]

I would say that this would require getting rid of all intellectualism.

Not true, prayer of God as in you CAN even mock him "You showed miracles in the past, show me miracles now then, if you sent Moses and Jesus in the past, show me a guide now with same capabilities and prove yourself to me!" and I swear even though that prayer is anything but humble, it has love, and God will respond to anyone who cares to pray to him and as long as people don't pray and don't want God, God leaves them to do what they want and be in the state they want to be in.

 

[F1fan]

I would say that this would require getting rid of all intellectualism.

What does this mean? Use your intellect to answer.

 

[an anarchist]

OK, jump off a building at least 10 stories high an d prove your God can save you. You aren't having doubts, right?

But let's say your experiences are true and God saved you, why doesn't God save all the dying children at St. Judes? Many are saved through the intervention of doctors, not a God. So explain why you are favored by God but little children are not.

I think that is a very ironic challenge that you pose
All of the suffering and evil to the world can be ascribed to man and their negative karma. To reject the blame of helping induce such hellish conditions is what helps creates it. As an American, I pay taxes. So, I fund literal genocide. Most Americans deny this. Yet they ask how can God let suffering happen in their streets.

 

[Polymath257]

Prayer is a short cut for God to reveal himself and if you ask him for miracles by the hands of the guide and won't accuse the guide of sorcery if he does such signs, then it will be shown to you in my faith, this is what I believe.

What guide? I am just asking for evidence. I won't accuse anyone of sorcery.

The fact that I was open to evidence and found none is, I believe, evidence your belief is wrong here.

But if you looking for intellectual proofs, the fact that we are an idea type existence is a base point. You have to see that, we are generated idea either by brain or something else.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. No, I do NOT see us as a 'generated idea' , whatever that means.

I say it has to be a perfect judge who makes us who we are, because our brain can't assess all actions and give us the proper value objectively. That is why you have arrogant and low-self esteem people and some people between that.

Why would it require a perfect judge?

When you realize what you are in who you are, you see that it's God who generates you by his word/vision/speaking you to life. It's easy to see, because only he can judge you for who you are in your current state and keep track of all your past states accountable for who you are.

Well, that is your belief, but I have found no evidence of this being the case.

 

[Polymath257]

In my own practice the "evidence" i have recieved has been personal to my own practice, and not a physical evidence of Allah, but in deeper wisdom of the the sufi teaching, a calmer mind and every part of hate i did once carry within my mind has been removed and replaced with love toward every being in this world, the inner form of love can of course become stronger yet, but it is down to my own practice.

So no i can not physically prove to a non believer that Allah exist, that they must experience for them self
So i can not and will not try to prove or force others to believe

That sounds like you have found good psychological exercises to make your life more fulfilling.

But what does that have to do with God and the existence of such?

 

[an anarchist]

What does this mean? Use your intellect to answer.

It's a Taoist point of view. To be able to know without knowing. The following phrase, Wei Wu Wei, is the Taoist concept of Do without doing. It's an abstract concept at first, but once you understand it, it affects a worldview. To get rid of intellectualism, to learn without learning, that is what I mean.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That sounds like you have found good psychological exercises to make your life more fulfilling.

But what does that have to do with God and the existence of such?

To me the change happen as soon as i started to practice sufism and believing in Allah and the teaching.
I had struggled for more than 20 years as spiritual, but never found the calmness i found through Sufism.
the inward path in to exploring our own self and removing the ego do have to do with psycology that is clear to me too.

That to me means the teaching is true, but i can still not physically prove to others Allah exist.

 

[McBell]

When I asked with an open mind for evidence, all I found was me talking to myself. That isn't evidence of a creator.

Based upon the claim that you will find god if you ask with an open mind would not it stand to reason that whatever you find is god?
And since all you found was yourself, then by the very claim that you followed, you are god, right?

 

[F1fan]

It's a Taoist point of view. To be able to know without knowing. The following phrase, Wei Wu Wei, is the Taoist concept of Do without doing. It's an abstract concept at first, but once you understand it, it affects a worldview. To get rid of intellectualism, to learn without learning, that is what I mean.

Then you should have learned to not reference to Gods as part of this wisdom. So your posts are contradictory and suggest you haven't quite understood these Taoist bits of wisdom.

To frame a concept in your mind like a "God" and refer to this abstraction as if real violates what this Taoism suggests.

 

[Link]

What guide? I am just asking for evidence. I won't accuse anyone of sorcery.

The fact that I was open to evidence and found none is, I believe, evidence your belief is wrong here.

You don't need to know which one, he'll tell you himself when he meets you. I believe it's the 12th Successor of Mohammad (s), but you let me know if you pray and when you see him, who he is and what he showed you, if you are given permission to do so (permission to reveal it).

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. No, I do NOT see us as a 'generated idea' , whatever that means.

It means we require perception, think about you seeing yourself.

Why would it require a perfect judge?

We have value, that value is through actions, and our actions form part of who we are, that requires judgment, any imperfection in judgment, and who are no longer objective value, but illusionary value.

Well, that is your belief, but I have found no evidence of this being the case.

Reflect in the signs over yourself and if that's not enough, it should suffice you that God is a witness to who we are and what we are, to remind you require him to exist.

 

[F1fan]

I think that is a very ironic challenge that you pose
All of the suffering and evil to the world can be ascribed to man and their negative karma. To reject the blame of helping induce such hellish conditions is what helps creates it. As an American, I pay taxes. So, I fund literal genocide. Most Americans deny this. Yet they ask how can God let suffering happen in their streets.

I suggest the irony is that you made clear claims in your opening post and now you are pulling back on your literalism. You're deflecting quickly from your claims, as if you have serious doubts about your belief.

 

[Polymath257]

To me the change happen as soon as i started to practice sufism and believing in Allah and the teaching.
I had struggled for more than 20 years as spiritual, but never found the calmness i found through Sufism.
the inward path in to exploring our own self and removing the ego do have to do with psycology that is clear to me too.

That to me means the teaching is true, but i can still not physically prove to others Allah exist.

First, congratulations on finding something that works for you.

Second, I don't think that just because an idea makes me feel better, more calm, less stressed, etc means the idea is true. In fact, I find many truths to be disturbing, stressful, and unpleasant.

 

[F1fan]

Xavier Graham SA, do you have confidence that God will save you if you jump off a 10 story building?

 

[Polymath257]

Based upon the claim that you will find god if you ask with an open mind would not it stand to reason that whatever you find is god?
And since all you found was yourself, then by the very claim that you followed, you are god, right?

Either that, or the claim is false. That seems like the more likely option.

 

[Spirit of Light]

First, congratulations on finding something that works for you.

Second, I don't think that just because an idea makes me feel better, more calm, less stressed, etc means the idea is true. In fact, I find many truths to be disturbing, stressful, and unpleasant.

It is true that when opening one own being to the spiritual life, one also do see the suffering in this world a heck of a lot more clear, and that in it self is very difficult to see, and if possible i would help everyone i could so they can have a better life. i am a realist too so i know i can only do a little, but as long i do it, it is better than not doing anything.