How to prove God.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are describing part of the Bible process for belief--evidence to trust Jesus for salvation is awarded to those who ask with an open mind.

IOW, the "evidence" isn't convincing unless you're already convinced.

 

[leroy]

Ho

I asked and nothing happened. Now what?

On a slightly related note though... This morning I asked Poseidon to make it rain today. And 'lo and behold, it's raining.

Checkmate, abrahamic theist!

Do it with an open mind.

Just pray and tell God that you are willing to look at the evidence with an open mind, and let good guide you to the evidence and arguments that would be good enough for you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Do it with an open mind.

I did.
Or must it be so open that, as Dawkins infamously said once, I risk my brain to fall out?

Just pray and tell God that you are willing to look at the evidence with an open mind, and let good guide you to the evidence and arguments that would be good enough for you.

So... self-brainwashing?

The way you phrase this, btw, results in me having to believe it before being justified in believing it so that I become able to justify to believe that which I already believe, with the belief I already hold.

It reads like a handbook on how to abuse "confirmation bias" with some circular sauce on top

 

[leroy]

I did.
Or must it be so open that, as Dawkins infamously said once, I risk my brain to fall out?


So... self-brainwashing?

The way you phrase this, btw, results in me having to believe it before being justified in believing it so that I become able to justify to believe that which I already believe, with the belief I already hold.

It reads like a handbook on how to abuse "confirmation bias" with some circular sauce on top

No, what I meant is that you must do your best to remove any confirmation bias (for or against god) and simply look at the evidence with an open mind.

For example a good first step would be that next time you encounter an argument for God in this forum, actually make an honest effort, try to understand the argument, and try to spot the strengths and weaknesses of the argument. Try to identify the premises of the argument, and then try to determine if you find them more plausibly true than wrong.

Instead of you usual “avoid the burden prove at all cost” “adopt a position of extreme and irrational skepticism” and “not affirm not deny anything, just keep my view vague and ambiguous “

 

[RestlessSoul]

Do you not think that many atheists have already tried this and failed?
I know, "You didn't try hard enough" or "You've got to have more faith"

Are you speaking for yourself here? You searched for God and drew a blank? What form did your search take, and what did you ask for, if that’s not too personal a question?

I called on a God I didn’t believe in, in my hour of darkest need, and I absolutely believe a miracle happened. My life changed completely.

I was pretty desperate though, desperate enough to admit the complete defeat of all my own resources, and to ask for God’s help without conditions.

 

[Altfish]

Are you speaking for yourself here? You searched for God and drew a blank? What form did your search take, and what did you ask for, if that’s not too personal a question?

I called on a God I didn’t believe in, in my hour of darkest need, and I absolutely believe a miracle happened. My life changed completely.

I was pretty desperate though, desperate enough to admit the complete defeat of all my own resources, and to ask for God’s help without conditions.

No, I was brought up with god. At school, at Sunday school, at Church Lads Brigade - you name it the session started with and ended with prayers.

I have never been in a position like you, but I call on friends, family when I need help.

 

[blü 2]

I believe there is a simple way to prove God. It may seem too simplistic at first, but that's not the intention.
Throughout my life, there have been times when I have called out to God whilst being in mortal danger, and He saved me. When I pray, He answers without fail and shows me that He is listening. When I was younger, I required evidence (Christian apologetics) to reinforce my faith in God. Now, I don't need that to know that my God is real, He has proven Himself to me.
To those who are skeptical of the idea of God, the way to prove God is this. Allow yourself to suspend your skepticism momentarily and ask God (however you understand God) to reveal Himself to you. My God answers without fail.
To both the skeptic and the believer, this methodology may seem silly. The believer might say "God has revealed Himself completely through the Bible! We are not to test Him, He does not reveal Himself in the present day."
If a skeptic is on the fence as to whether God is real or not, let them do this. Simply ask God to reveal Himself. God will prove Himself to you.

I made a genuine attempt at one time to contact any god or supernatural being that might be out there, but I had no success.

However, since you have access to God, you'd make a big impression on a skeptic like me if you'd ask God what will be the headline for the lead news story, front page of the New York Times for 2022 June 23 (a Thursday) ─ and let me know in the next couple of days.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No, what I meant is that you must do your best to remove any confirmation bias (for or against god) and simply look at the evidence with an open mind.

What evidence?

For example a good first step would be that next time you encounter an argument for God in this forum, actually make an honest effort, try to understand the argument, and try to spot the strengths and weaknesses of the argument.

I always do that. And it's been a looooooong time since I've heard an original argument.
They have been done to death.

Try to identify the premises of the argument, and then try to determine if you find them more plausibly true than wrong.

Been there, done that.

Instead of you usual “avoid the burden prove at all cost”

The burden of proof is on the one who presents the argument.
One of the reasons the arguments fail, is because they tend to not being able to meet that burden.

“adopt a position of extreme and irrational skepticism”

This is just meaningless talk.

and “not affirm not deny anything, just keep my view vague and ambiguous “

This also is just meaningless talk.

You are more then welcome to go create a thread with your favorite argument that you find the most convincing.

I bet 100 bucks that
1. I heard it before
2. it's been done to death
3. there's a wiki article listing all the problems with it and the many ways in which it fails

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Are you speaking for yourself here? You searched for God and drew a blank? What form did your search take, and what did you ask for, if that’s not too personal a question?

I called on a God I didn’t believe in, in my hour of darkest need, and I absolutely believe a miracle happened. My life changed completely.

I was pretty desperate though, desperate enough to admit the complete defeat of all my own resources, and to ask for God’s help without conditions.

So what did you ask for and what happened and how have you determined that the thing that happened was this god's doing?

 

[RestlessSoul]

So what did you ask for and what happened and how have you determined that the thing that happened was this god's doing?

I hadn’t drawn a sober breath for many years before becoming desperate enough to ask for God’s help. Bearing in mind that I had no faith in anything at all at that point in my life.

I haven’t had a drink or a drug since that time, nor have I wanted one despite facing many challenging situations that would previously have sent me straight to the bottle.

Drink and drugs had robbed me of pretty much everything, including my sanity and my soul. I could no more go an hour without a drink than most people can go an hour without drawing breath. That dependency was quite simply taken away from me, and this miracle of healing I credit entirely to a loving creator which I choose to call God.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I believe there is a simple way to prove God. It may seem too simplistic at first, but that's not the intention.
Throughout my life, there have been times when I have called out to God whilst being in mortal danger, and He saved me. When I pray, He answers without fail and shows me that He is listening. When I was younger, I required evidence (Christian apologetics) to reinforce my faith in God. Now, I don't need that to know that my God is real, He has proven Himself to me.
To those who are skeptical of the idea of God, the way to prove God is this. Allow yourself to suspend your skepticism momentarily and ask God (however you understand God) to reveal Himself to you. My God answers without fail.
To both the skeptic and the believer, this methodology may seem silly. The believer might say "God has revealed Himself completely through the Bible! We are not to test Him, He does not reveal Himself in the present day."
If a skeptic is on the fence as to whether God is real or not, let them do this. Simply ask God to reveal Himself. God will prove Himself to you.

So, when asking God to "reveal" Himself, what can one expect as a positive result? Because I can tell you one thing - if the "reveal" is something completely unrelated to God actually showing up and doing something verifiably real, then that isn't going to cut it. Non sequiturs are simply not impressive.

 

[Link]

I believe there is a simple way to prove God. It may seem too simplistic at first, but that's not the intention.
Throughout my life, there have been times when I have called out to God whilst being in mortal danger, and He saved me. When I pray, He answers without fail and shows me that He is listening. When I was younger, I required evidence (Christian apologetics) to reinforce my faith in God. Now, I don't need that to know that my God is real, He has proven Himself to me.
To those who are skeptical of the idea of God, the way to prove God is this. Allow yourself to suspend your skepticism momentarily and ask God (however you understand God) to reveal Himself to you. My God answers without fail.
To both the skeptic and the believer, this methodology may seem silly. The believer might say "God has revealed Himself completely through the Bible! We are not to test Him, He does not reveal Himself in the present day."
If a skeptic is on the fence as to whether God is real or not, let them do this. Simply ask God to reveal Himself. God will prove Himself to you.

And it's same about the "Guide' "...for every people there is a guide (13:7 Quran). If anyone wants the Guide to meet them and show them miracles by his hands, just ask God.

 

[F1fan]

I believe there is a simple way to prove God. It may seem too simplistic at first, but that's not the intention.
Throughout my life, there have been times when I have called out to God whilst being in mortal danger, and He saved me. When I pray, He answers without fail and shows me that He is listening. When I was younger, I required evidence (Christian apologetics) to reinforce my faith in God. Now, I don't need that to know that my God is real, He has proven Himself to me.
To those who are skeptical of the idea of God, the way to prove God is this. Allow yourself to suspend your skepticism momentarily and ask God (however you understand God) to reveal Himself to you. My God answers without fail.
To both the skeptic and the believer, this methodology may seem silly. The believer might say "God has revealed Himself completely through the Bible! We are not to test Him, He does not reveal Himself in the present day."
If a skeptic is on the fence as to whether God is real or not, let them do this. Simply ask God to reveal Himself. God will prove Himself to you.

OK, jump off a building at least 10 stories high an d prove your God can save you. You aren't having doubts, right?

But let's say your experiences are true and God saved you, why doesn't God save all the dying children at St. Judes? Many are saved through the intervention of doctors, not a God. So explain why you are favored by God but little children are not.

 

[Polymath257]

Do it with an open mind.

Just pray and tell God that you are willing to look at the evidence with an open mind, and let good guide you to the evidence and arguments that would be good enough for you.

And if, after being willing to look at the evidence with an open mind, you still don't see any evidence?

I don't believe because I 'want to'. I believe because I am convinced by evidence.

When I asked with an open mind for evidence, all I found was me talking to myself. That isn't evidence of a creator.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Suppose you are a farmer and there's a nasty dry spell in the weather that is destroying your crops. You pray for rain every day. One day, sure enough, it rains - eventhough the weatherman didn't forecast any rain. Did god make it rain? How would you know?

What's more likely?
That there is an undemonstrable super being who rules the universe and who has galaxy upon galaxy to attend to and yet for some reason he takes specific interest in some slightly smarter ape on some insignificant planet in some insignificant corner of some insignificant galaxy while taking an extra special interest in what that ape does with other apes while naked?

Or that the weatherman made a mistake? Or that you made a mistake in interpreting whatever it is that you are assuming is "god answering"?

It's just mere belief from beginning to end.
There's nothing there.

I think it's also true that if the farmer prays for rain and it doesn't come, he can just assume he "prayed incorrectly." This happens day after day, each day altering the prayer ever-so-slightly until, behold, one day it rains. "Ah," says the farmer, "I finally got it right."

Or, a better explanation: sometimes it rains, and sometimes it doesn't. With or without prayer.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And if, after being willing to look at the evidence with an open mind, you still don't see any evidence?

I don't believe because I 'want to'. I believe because I am convinced by evidence.

When I asked with an open mind for evidence, all I found was me talking to myself. That isn't evidence of a creator.

Can i ask what kind of evidence you looking for?

 

[Polymath257]

Can i ask what kind of evidence you looking for?

Any that would lead to the conclusion that there is a creator of the universe. Or any that suggests the existence of a supernatural. Or any that suggests a being that responds to prayers.

What kind of evidence is available? I am open to considering any evidence.

 

[F1fan]

I really want to see a serious test. I want to see Xavier Graham jump off a tall building and show us that God will save him. If he is wary of doing it, well, it suggests he's not that confident in his beliefs about God. If that's the case then skeptics are justified in being suspicious of this "proof" that God exists, and will continue doubting what theists claim.

 

[Heyo]

I believe there is a simple way to prove God. It may seem too simplistic at first, but that's not the intention.
Throughout my life, there have been times when I have called out to God whilst being in mortal danger, and He saved me. When I pray, He answers without fail and shows me that He is listening. When I was younger, I required evidence (Christian apologetics) to reinforce my faith in God. Now, I don't need that to know that my God is real, He has proven Himself to me.
To those who are skeptical of the idea of God, the way to prove God is this. Allow yourself to suspend your skepticism momentarily and ask God (however you understand God) to reveal Himself to you. My God answers without fail.
To both the skeptic and the believer, this methodology may seem silly. The believer might say "God has revealed Himself completely through the Bible! We are not to test Him, He does not reveal Himself in the present day."
If a skeptic is on the fence as to whether God is real or not, let them do this. Simply ask God to reveal Himself. God will prove Himself to you.

That is not a proof.

A proof consists of a set of premises and a conclusion that logically follows.
Here is a proof for god that is formally correct (valid) and the premises are true (sound).

Premise 1: Clapton is god.
Premise 2: Clapton exists and is real. *
Conclusion: God exists and is real.

* Evidence for P2:

 

[Link]

Any that would lead to the conclusion that there is a creator of the universe. Or any that suggests the existence of a supernatural. Or any that suggests a being that responds to prayers.

What kind of evidence is available? I am open to considering any evidence.

Prayer is a short cut for God to reveal himself and if you ask him for miracles by the hands of the guide and won't accuse the guide of sorcery if he does such signs, then it will be shown to you in my faith, this is what I believe.

But if you looking for intellectual proofs, the fact that we are an idea type existence is a base point. You have to see that, we are generated idea either by brain or something else. I say it has to be a perfect judge who makes us who we are, because our brain can't assess all actions and give us the proper value objectively. That is why you have arrogant and low-self esteem people and some people between that.

When you realize what you are in who you are, you see that it's God who generates you by his word/vision/speaking you to life. It's easy to see, because only he can judge you for who you are in your current state and keep track of all your past states accountable for who you are.