How To Make a Believable Prophecy

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Let's consider the scenario as a Deity who has created us with free will. If this Deity brings signs on us in such a way that, we have no choice but to accept and believe, then that free will is taken from us.

Are you suggesting that if you believe something based on supporting evidence that your free will has been taken from you?

No, that's not what I said. I will elaborate with this example: Suppose a prophet says, precisely in the year 2029, angels come down from sky, there will be many earth quakes in USA and 100 millions will die from earth quakes, and the sun does not give light on the first day of 2029, and the rocks will fall on earth from sky, and then the dead people will be resurrected. Then when the day comes in 2029, all of it happens, and you will see with your own eyes, your grand parents who had died some years ago, came back to life.. Do you still have a choice to disbelieve?

No, but I haven't lost my free will (if I ever had that - a separate discussion) just because I see something and learn something new.

Sure, I'll believe what the evidence suggests. And you are correct that once fraud was ruled out, I would have no choice but to believe that somebody had extraordinary specific knowledge of the future after such an experience, although there are mmany who see what they want to (confirmation bias) and are impervious to evidence. They choose to continue believing in the face of contradictory evidence

I still don't see why believing without evidence is praised. Before the evidence, I had no reason to believe. Then I did, and added a new belief. That's desirable. That's a good way to approach life - skeptical and empirical, adding only those ideas that have supporting evidence..

So what is the virtue in believing by faith (guessing)? Why do you believe a god would want that? If a god gave you free will but no evidence upon which to make a decision, then isn't that god setting you up for failure? Why trust such a god?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Perhaps I misread what the article said about the Palace of Saddam, but read this portion of it;
'Exploiting existing fortifications and landing pads, U.S. and Polish troops established a helicopter base dubbed Camp Alpha on the ruins of ancient Babylon.

"It was horrifying that the military would be encamped on such an important archaeological site," Lisa Ackerman, executive vice president of the World Monument Fund said.'
In other words Isaiah was wrong, the ruins themselves have been inhabited in generations since it's takeover.

Taken from the NIV (since I don't know if you are a Jehovah's Witness I won't quote the NWT to you).

"Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
the pride and glory of the Babylonians,
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.
20 She will never be inhabited
or lived in through all generations"

Notice it says the "Kingdom" of Babylon will be overthrown and never inhabited, not just the "walled city", you appear to be imagining that the prophecy is more specific than it actually is.

What I notice is you grasping to find some way, any way possible to try to discredit the prophecy. Babylon was overthrown and is still uninhabited just like the scriptures said it would be.

 

[Left Coast]

I think that Jews were scattered and now later gathered back is such prophesy.

I will scatter you among the nations, and I will draw out the sword after you: and your land will be a desolation, and your cities shall be a waste.
Leviticus 26:33

Pretty much all people groups are eventually dispersed among others around the world, that's just the nature of migration and demographics. So there's nothing really unique or specific there. And Israel is not completely desolate and city-less; never has been, that I'm aware of?

It shall happen, when all these things are come on you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you shall call them to mind among all the nations, where Yahweh your God has driven you, and shall return to Yahweh your God, and shall obey his voice according to all that I command you this day, you and your children, with all your heart, and with all your soul; that then Yahweh your God will turn your captivity, and have compassion on you, and will return and gather you from all the peoples, where Yahweh your God has scattered you. If any of your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of the heavens, from there will Yahweh your God gather you, and from there will he bring you back:

Deuteronomy 30:1-4

This one hasn't happened, nor is it terribly specific, either.

If that is not accepted, I don’t think anything would be.

Something like I described in the OP would be. Do you know any prophecy like that?

 

[Left Coast]

Yep that's your best defense. Just claim that even if it's accurate it had to have been tampered with. No need to discuss any further, as there is nothing that would convince you.

So I will look at it as the scripture says. "Let God be true and every man a liar."

It's not that it "had to" be tampered with, it's that all the evidence indicates it has been.

Finding a manuscript that actually predates the Babylonian captivity might be a good start if you want to demonstrate the validity of the prophecy.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

No. For people so far away, believing is seeing. They will force their mental image on the backside of their retina and prevent any light from entering their eye (poetically spoken, not that they are physically able to do that).

Ok, so, you think if all those things I listed happens literally, still people disbelieve in the prophecy or God. Then it seems that, it is people fault who deny. Were God do everything they want to see, still they disbelieve, right? I am just trying to understand your point of view here.

 

[Heyo]

Ok, so, you think if all those things I listed happens literally, still people disbelieve in the prophecy or God. Then it seems that, it is people fault who deny. Were God do everything they want to see, still they disbelieve, right? I am just trying to understand your point of view here.

I think you got it. Some people are able to ignore every evidence. And it isn't just a small crackpot minority. About 30% in the US believe in a young earth.
And I think, contrary to their testimony, many atheists would not believe in a god, even if some prophesy of the kind defined by Left Coast would come true (including me).
After millennia of failed prophesies one lucky shot doesn't do it.

 

[1213]

...Something like I described in the OP would be. Do you know any prophecy like that?

If person doesn’t want to believe, there is always possibility to say, it was not specific, or something like that.

Interesting thing is also, if people who don’t want the prophesy to be fulfilled, would know it exactly, they could make it wrong. That is why I think in some cases it is better if the message is vague for the enemies, but clear to the ones to whom it is meant for. Bible is like irrefutable coded message to free people, that is why I think rulers want to destroy it and also Christians.

 

[Left Coast]

If person doesn’t want to believe, there is always possibility to say, it was not specific, or something like that.

It's always possible, but such denial would not be reasonable. The reason people keep saying Bible prophecies aren't specific is because, well, they're not.

Interesting thing is also, if people who don’t want the prophesy to be fulfilled, would know it exactly, they could make it wrong. That is why I think in some cases it is better if the message is vague for the enemies, but clear to the ones to whom it is meant for.

Yes, this was @Israel Khan's point earlier as well. As a result, a plausibly believable prophecy would have to be something that humans couldn't intentionally affect one way or the other, either in an attempt to thwart it or to make it come to pass.

Bible is like irrefutable coded message to free people, that is why I think rulers want to destroy it and also Christians.

The Bible is the world's most widely printed book in history, IIRC, and access to many versions of it are free online. Anyone trying to destroy it is doing a terrible job.