How Quickly Religious Myths Can Appear. Why Is This Not Possible About Jesus?

[sojourner]

So you are saying that myth is used to aid confirmation bias in religious circles (not scholastic circles, scholars i know do not add a sentence to massag their ego)

Evidence or lack of evidence show manipulating the definition s not appropriate

I'm saying that myth is used as a literary device to propagate truth as the particular religion sees it. The scholars who study/translate/interpret the bible use literary criticism toward those ends. Understanding the nature of myth and how it's used in the transmission of spiritual and cultural truths is one of the tools they use.

 

[ChristineM]

I'm saying that myth is used as a literary device to propagate truth as the particular religion sees it. The scholars who study/translate/interpret the bible use literary criticism toward those ends. Understanding the nature of myth and how it's used in the transmission of spiritual and cultural truths is one of the tools they use.

Truth compounds the issue.

I see truth as : that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.

However there is a second definition for truth : a fact or belief that is accepted as true.

Which is the one religion favours

To me that word 'belief' puts the kibosh on the whole concept of truth and confusion rules. For example i could believe pigs can fly, does that make it true?, i could believe the earth is flat, does my belief make it true? I could believe a god made the universe in 6 days just over 6000 years ago, does that make it true?

 

[Wandering Monk]

If it is not true, why did they do so?

Things don't need to be true to be useful.

 

[sojourner]

I get the feeling that the Bible was never meant to be taken literally. Only in recent generations that idea arose.

Indeed.

 

[sojourner]

Truth compounds the issue.

I see truth as : that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.

However there is a second definition for truth : a fact or belief that is accepted as true.

Which is the one religion favours

To me that word 'belief' puts the kibosh on the whole concept of truth and confusion rules. For example i could believe pigs can fly, does that make it true?, i could believe the earth is flat, does my belief make it true? I could believe a god made the universe in 6 days just over 6000 years ago, does that make it true?

Except that “fact” and “reality” aren’t interchangeable. Facts inform reality but they do not necessarily define reality. I see reality as the way in which we make sense of facts we perceive. Likewise, “fact” and “truth” are not interchangeable. Truth is how we understand and portray our reality. So yes, truth does compound the issue.

Religion doesn’t seek to define reality, but rather seeks to bring truth and meaning to reality. I can say, “I believe in Christ.” But that’s not bearing witness to a set of facts, but rather stating a truth — that is, how I understand and make meaning of the human being, the human family, and their place in the world. Christ reveals the deepest truth of our being, showing us what is at the heart of the human soul. Humanity is more than the sum of its measurable parts. That’s truth. That’s reality. But it goes deeper than quantifiable fact.

 

[sojourner]

Things don't need to be true to be useful.

Please explain further.

 

[Desert Snake]

A painter is not a myth, there is a result to their work?

Nor is it a word with a practical use such as for example mooring boats

Myths exist outside of religion, same word, same meaning

So show me a mainstream dictionary that agrees with the last sentence of your definition.

Book of Genesis =religion
Lilith story=myth

Is there some subjectivity here?

Yes obviously, however in religious established canon, the book of Genesis is part of the Bible.

Notice how it is 'nice to know that'?

 

[Wandering Monk]

Please explain further.

The policy of the emperors and the senate, as far as it concerned religion, was happily seconded by the reflections of the enlightened, and by the habits of the superstitious, part of their subjects. The various modes of worship, which prevailed in the Roman world, were all considered by the people, as equally true; by the philosopher, as equally false; and by the magistrate, as equally useful. - Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire​

 

[ChristineM]

Except that “fact” and “reality” aren’t interchangeable. Facts inform reality but they do not necessarily define reality. I see reality as the way in which we make sense of facts we perceive. Likewise, “fact” and “truth” are not interchangeable. Truth is how we understand and portray our reality. So yes, truth does compound the issue.

Religion doesn’t seek to define reality, but rather seeks to bring truth and meaning to reality. I can say, “I believe in Christ.” But that’s not bearing witness to a set of facts, but rather stating a truth — that is, how I understand and make meaning of the human being, the human family, and their place in the world. Christ reveals the deepest truth of our being, showing us what is at the heart of the human soul. Humanity is more than the sum of its measurable parts. That’s truth. That’s reality. But it goes deeper than quantifiable fact.

Once again i quoted definitions,.

You may use whatever apologetics make you happy, i really dont care how you justify the myth of the bible to yourself.

 

[ChristineM]

Book of Genesis =religion
Lilith story=myth

Is there some subjectivity here?

Yes obviously, however in religious established canon, the book of Genesis is part of the Bible.

Notice how it is 'nice to know that'?

Why is it nice to know? Its still myth even as part of the bible

 

[sojourner]

The policy of the emperors and the senate, as far as it concerned religion, was happily seconded by the reflections of the enlightened, and by the habits of the superstitious, part of their subjects. The various modes of worship, which prevailed in the Roman world, were all considered by the people, as equally true; by the philosopher, as equally false; and by the magistrate, as equally useful. - Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire​

Notice that the magistrate thought it was useful. Notice, too, that the empire fell. I have to wonder how useful it really was...

 

[sojourner]

Once again i quoted definitions,.

You may use whatever apologetics make you happy, i really dont care how you justify the myth of the bible to yourself.

There are valid theological definitions, just as there are valid scientific definitions and valid literary definitions. You quoted one definition.

Happily, you came to the right conclusion that much of the Bible is mythic, meaning that it uses hyperbole, allegory and metaphor to speak to the theological truths of its audience.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Notice that the magistrate thought it was useful. Notice, too, that the empire fell. I have to wonder how useful it really was...

Yes, those who wish to govern us often use religion to do so, whether clergy or politicians.

 

[ChristineM]

There are valid theological definitions, just as there are valid scientific definitions and valid literary definitions. You quoted one definition.

Happily, you came to the right conclusion that much of the Bible is mythic, meaning that it uses hyperbole, allegory and metaphor to speak to the theological truths of its audience.

There ya go with the word truths, not capitalised, not in quote, how is anyone to know that you mean alternative truth? I.e beliefs

 

[sojourner]

Yes, those who wish to govern us often use religion to do so, whether clergy or politicians.

That’s certainly not MY aim as a member of the clergy.

 

[sojourner]

There ya go with the word truths, not capitalised, not in quote, how is anyone to know that you mean alternative truth? I.e beliefs

Alternative truth? That phrase seems an oxymoron. Truth is truth, but truth is also dependent on perspective. Remember “fact” and “truth” are not interchangeable.

 

[ChristineM]

Alternative truth? That phrase seems an oxymoron. Truth is truth, but truth is also dependent on perspective. Remember “fact” and “truth” are not interchangeable.

Belief is not truth

 

[sojourner]

Belief is not truth

Belief may not be fact. But it can be. Remember: I’m not talking about unfounded belief; I’m talking about how a person makes meaning of life, and expresses that meaning. The meaning we make includes the facts we gather about the world and about ourselves. Truth (Gr. Aletheia, Lat. Veritable) That which accords with reality or is genuine. Truthfulness (Lat. Veracitas) That which conveys the truth. Ethically, it is the virtue of conveying one’s thoughts accurately and in ways appropriate to one’s circumstances.

Our truth is what is genuine about us. It really has little to do with quantifiable fact, other than the proviso outlined in the definition, “that which accords with reality.” If I understand the world in divine terms, that’s something that is genuine about me; that is my truth. That doesn’t mean that I get to impose that truth on others, because that may not be their truth. In that manner, truth is relative, not absolute.

I don’t make statements about my faith or beliefs that are absolute, because I understand those to be largely metaphoric or allegorical. IOW, I don’t conflate scientific fact about the origins of the universe with the ways in which I choose to make meaning of creation. Does that help?

 

[paarsurrey]

There was and that is why they convened and eliminated the myths and came up with those that were known to be true.

Today, we have compiled those letters and compiled them under the title of New Testament.

"eliminated the myths and came up with those that were known to be true."

What was the basis to discern "true" from the "myth" and who authorized to do it, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I wouldn't necessarily say true, just more popular ways to build on thr myth

You mean they build yet another myth. Right, please?

Regards