How Many Gods Don't You Believe in?

[Heyo]

"The force the supernatural exerts is less than that."

Right there!!

If you don't know what effects super natural would have and can't study anything super natural(if it exists), then your claim is BS based on unknowns. .

My claim? I didn't claim the supernatural exists or doesn't exist.
It was your claim that the supernatural isn't measurable by science. I agree. Because there is no measurable effect of the supernatural.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

My claim? I didn't claim the supernatural exists or doesn't exist.
It was your claim that the supernatural isn't measurable by science. I agree. Because there is no measurable effect of the supernatural.

Yeah, correct for at least one version of objective evidence. But the follow up question is if all human behavior can be done based only on postive objective evidence?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Is the war in Ukraine over religion?
If not then there is your evidence that with or with out religion humans will have wars and conflict. Its human nature based on greed and power.

Perhaps you have never done any fault-finding. If one requires to have a trouble-free system to operate, then one usually goes about recognising which thing might contribute to a particular issue and then to go about systematically resolving and rectifying each component that might contribute to any issue. Religions are just one component of our system that tends to cause conflict. In time, and hopefully, perhaps we will eliminate other sources of conflict too - so no more warring states, and no more conflicting political systems. But it might be such that we can at least wind down the rhetoric so often used by the religious so as to cause less conflict now - even if they never entirely vanish, which I suspect they never might do anyway.

 

[We Never Know]

Perhaps you have never done any fault-finding. If one requires to have a trouble-free system to operate, then one usually goes about recognising which thing might contribute to a particular issue and then to go about systematically resolving and rectifying each component that might contribute to any issue. Religions are just one component of our system that tends to cause conflict. In time, and hopefully, perhaps we will eliminate other sources of conflict too - so no more warring states, and no more conflicting political systems. But it might be such that we can at least wind down the rhetoric so often used by the religious so as to cause less conflict now - even if they never entirely vanish, which I suspect they never might do anyway.

It was a simple question...

Is the war in Ukraine over religion?

 

[Mock Turtle]

It was a simple question...

Is the war in Ukraine over religion?

What has that got to do with this?

 

[We Never Know]

My claim? I didn't claim the supernatural exists or doesn't exist.
It was your claim that the supernatural isn't measurable by science. I agree. Because there is no measurable effect of the supernatural.

"there is no measurable effect of the supernatural"

You can't measure what you cant study(if it exists)

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Perhaps you have never done any fault-finding. If one requires to have a trouble-free system to operate, then one usually goes about recognising which thing might contribute to a particular issue and then to go about systematically resolving and rectifying each component that might contribute to any issue. Religions are just one component of our system that tends to cause conflict. In time, and hopefully, perhaps we will eliminate other sources of conflict too - so no more warring states, and no more conflicting political systems. But it might be such that we can at least wind down the rhetoric so often used by the religious so as to cause less conflict now - even if they never entirely vanish, which I suspect they never might do anyway.

Well, you are objectively WRONG, because your model is a subjective evaluation of different kinds of bad. But that is WRONG because your model is not obejctive. Only the objective is RIGHT as per objecctive rationality and evidence. So we need to reomove your kind of subjectivity as that is BAD and all humans must become capable of doing everything with only objecctive rationality and evidence.
You are subjective and that is BAD and WRONG.

 

[Mock Turtle]

That is a postive claim for which you have the burden of proof as per objective rationality and evidence. So please do that.

Take a visit to Afghanistan, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or perhaps any states in the USA, or even in Israel and ask some there as to how important religion is to them.

 

[We Never Know]

What has that got to do with this?

It's not the non-religious who are fighting each other over their beliefs - they can manage to fight over anything else just as much as all do. But it is religions causing an additional cause of conflict.

Is the war in Ukraine over religion?

No? Then like I said, religion or not humans will go to war. Its human nature.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well, you are objectively WRONG, because your model is a subjective evaluation of different kinds of bad. But that is WRONG because your model is not obejctive. Only the objective is RIGHT as per objecctive rationality and evidence. So we need to reomove your kind of subjectivity as that is BAD and all humans must become capable of doing everything with only objecctive rationality and evidence.
You are subjective and that is BAD and WRONG.

Never done any fault-finding then?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Take a visit to Afghanistan, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or perhaps any states in the USA, or even in Israel and ask some there as to how important religion is to them.

Yeah. That is a part of the world. Now prove that is special!!!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Never done any fault-finding then?

Stop using feelings!!! You are not objective and that is the problem in the end!!!

 

[RestlessSoul]

That implies that the claimant hasn't met his burden of proof. And we now know an upper limit of the possible effect of the phenomenon. We know all the ways the claim was false and no way it could be right.

What claim, and what burden?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Is the war in Ukraine over religion?

As I said - what has this to do with it? Religions are not necessarily involved in every war.

 

[We Never Know]

Take a visit to Afghanistan, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or perhaps any states in the USA, or even in Israel and ask some there as to how important religion is to them.

Its probably a very good thing that in the US the religious and the non-religious don't go to war.
Don't you agree?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Stop using feelings!!! You are not objective and that is the problem in the end!!!

Rubbish! There are definitely things that tend to cause conflict and/or wars, such that eliminating or lessening the likelihood of conflict occurring through these, then war and/or conflict will be less likely. Conflicting religious beliefs just being one aspect of this.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Take a visit to Afghanistan, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or perhaps any states in the USA, or even in Israel and ask some there as to how important religion is to them.

With the exception of the USA, one thing all those regions have in common is that they have all been colonised by foreign powers, fairly recently. Maybe that, and not religion, is the real root of the conflicts there?

 

[We Never Know]

As I said - what has this to do with it? Religions are not necessarily involved in every war.

"Religions are not necessarily involved in every war."

That's my point. War isn't religious, its human nature, with or without religion wars will happen.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

As I said - what has this to do with it? Religions are not necessarily involved in every war.

Well, the problem is subjective people like you, who use feelings. That is WRONG, because everything must be done with objective rationality and evidence as per the burden of proof. That can't be doubt, as that is absurd, crazy, insane and meaningless.
The true correct human is one that only use objective rationality and evidence as per the correct culture of the Enlightenment.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Rubbish! There are definitely things that tend to cause conflict and/or wars, such that eliminating or lessening the likelihood of conflict occurring through these, then war and/or conflict will be less likely. Conflicting religious beliefs just being one aspect of this.

But religion is special, right? That was your claim. Now give evidence for that!!!