How does anthropology/archeology affect Judeo-Christian Islamic beliefs?

[Epic Beard Man]

Could you give me a couple of examples of which Jewish 'doctrine' might prove vulnerable?

Well I am sure you are aware of the critique of the story of Moses. From my limited understanding the existence of Jewish slaves were being debated among archeologists. Some saying there is proof, some saying there is no evidence.

In addition the remake of the ark and the measurement of the ark and the calculations of how many species of creatures would fit in the ark etc.

 

[Truthseeker]

But what if Moses did not exist in Egypt? What if the story of Exodus was a tale to ignite the spirit of Judaism as a culture? What if the Biblical Jesus didn't really exist and that, the parable of Jesus' tale is actually a fictional tale of another progressive Jewish Rabbi by another name? These things perplex me.

Online I encountered a scholar who said that only the Levi's were in Egypt and escaped from Egypt as the ancient Levi's had Egyptian names including Moses. If there were really the number of Hebrews said in the Bible in Egypt they would have been mentioned by the Egyptians in their records.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Well I am sure you are aware of the critique of the story of Moses. From my limited understanding the existence of Jewish slaves were being debated among archeologists. Some saying there is proof, some saying there is no evidence.

In addition the remake of the ark and the measurement of the ark and the calculations of how many species of creatures would fit in the ark etc.

You asked ...

Even at the expense where it could challenge the very doctrine itself?

Like many other Jews I reject the historicity of the Flood/Ark narrative and believe that Moses was at best a highly mythologized figure. The problem with ascertaining the existence of Hebrew slaves in Egypt lies entirely with the composition of the question. Few would question the existence of forced labor in Egypt and only the most ignorant would expect them to be walking around baring ethnic name-tags.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Online I encountered a scholar who said that only the Levi's were in Egypt and escaped from Egypt as the ancient Levi's had Egyptian names including Moses. If there were really the number of Hebrews said in the Bible in Egypt they would have been mentioned by the Egyptians in their records.

 

[pearl]

Despite all the ways in which the exodus narratives in the Bible seem to be non-historic, something about the overall pattern can, in fact, be related to what we know from historical sources was going on at the end of the Late Bronze Age [circa 1200 B.C.E.], around when the Bible's chronology places the story of departure from Egypt.

Now, what is the evidence? First of all, during this period there likely were a lot of people from the land of Canaan, from regions of the eastern Mediterranean, in Egypt. Sometimes they were taken there as slaves. The local kings of the city-states in Canaan would offer slaves as tribute to the pharaohs in order to remain in their good graces. This is documented in the Amarna letters discovered in Egypt. So we know that there were people taken to Egypt as slaves.

There is almost no evidence that those people left. But there are one or two Egyptian documents that record the flight of a handful of people who had been brought to Egypt for one reason or other and who didn't want to stay there.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/moses-exodus.html

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You asked ...

​

Like many other Jews I reject the historicity of the Flood/Ark narrative and believe that Moses was at best a highly mythologized figure. The problem with ascertaining the existence of Hebrew slaves in Egypt lies entirely with the composition of the question. Few would question the existence of forced labor in Egypt and only the most ignorant would expect them to be walking around baring ethnic name-tags.

Interesting....How as a Jew can you reconcile what is written versus what is discovered? I mean it is obvious you are not a literalist in the sense but (and I am not sure of this) but it seems you are very progressive/liberal with respect to your faith.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

For the record I believe the story of Moses...With some modification of course

 

[Kenny]

Considering the "out of Africa" theory such as the search for humanity through Eve mitochondria DNA as well as other discoveries that run contrary to Biblical and Quranic history, how do people feel about it? Do you incorporate the anthropological discoveries in your beliefs or i8f you do at all?

I find it coming more and more in alignment. It reveals more understanding into scriptures.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Interesting....How as a Jew can you reconcile what is written versus what is discovered? ...

In the Mishkan T'filah (the siddur or prayerbook of the Reform Movement) there is the following reading:

"Standing on the parted shores of history
we still believe what we were taught
before ever we stood at Sinai's foot;

that wherever we go, it is eternally Egypt
that there is a better place, a promised land;
that the winding way to that promise passes through the wilderness.

That there is no way to get from here to there
except by joining hands, marching together."​

There is a truth here that has little to do with the historicity of Moses or the Exodus.

 

[Jumi]

But what if Moses did not exist in Egypt? What if the story of Exodus was a tale to ignite the spirit of Judaism as a culture? What if the Biblical Jesus didn't really exist and that, the parable of Jesus' tale is actually a fictional tale of another progressive Jewish Rabbi by another name? These things perplex me.

You might be right, no one can go back in time to prove any of these and some details seem contradictory. Go to Ethiopia and their Jesus is like an Ethiopian, go to the old Christian Greek churches(now Turkey) and he looks like a local, everywhere he looks like the majority living there. Taking anything as literally true about these lives would be hard. All major pre-modern religious founders just have too many questions surrounding them.

Interesting....How as a Jew can you reconcile what is written versus what is discovered? I mean it is obvious you are not a literalist in the sense but (and I am not sure of this) but it seems you are very progressive/liberal with respect to your faith.

You might be a bit surprised, but this also works with Christianity and if Jesus really was as presented. It might sound stranger to an American than a European, perhaps... your country seems to have more literal religious beliefs.

 

[sealchan]

So you prefer to not know the actual history of biblical figures? Moses according to scholars had a stuttering problem which is why his brother Aaron stood in his place to speak yet we credit Moses with the law. I would like to know what is true.

I myself find that the scientific or scholarly perspective provides a rich source of material to consider about "what has actually happened". We probably won't get all the details but where there are disagreements, there are opportunities. I don't take the Bible literally but as literature. As such it has a rich source of spiritual truth. Those stories could be revamped, updated in the light of modern research and be used to make new stories which tell the same and further spiritual truths. This is, after all, how the original stories of the Bible were written...

 

[sealchan]

I have been doing a close study of Genesis and have just about completed it up through the story of Jacob/Israel...I have found that in the narrative there are plenty of thematic overlaps with the arguably earlier legends told in the Indian epic Mahabharat. The Mahabharata also features exile as an important theme. Exile of peoples by conquering empires was probably a common experience in ancient times. This theme seems to extend across the major works of written epic in the West and the East.

 

[tayla]

Considering the "out of Africa" theory such as the search for humanity through Eve mitochondria DNA as well as other discoveries that run contrary to Biblical and Quranic history, how do people feel about it? Do you incorporate the anthropological discoveries in your beliefs or i8f you do at all?

I believe the claim that the first modern humans lived 200,000 years ago, and that farming and animal domestication began maybe 10,000 BCE. Adam was a farmer and had domesticated animals and was also the first human. Where's the clash?

 

[Axe Elf]

But what if Moses did not exist in Egypt?

So what? It's only superficially a story about Moses, who may or may not have existed, but almost certainly did not author everything in the Bible that is attributed to him--the Bible is really a story about God and man's relationship to Him.

What if the story of Exodus was a tale to ignite the spirit of Judaism as a culture?

So what? There is a glaring lack of evidence for the exodus as it is told in the Bible anyway. If God just wanted to include the story in the Bible as a way to ignite the spirit of Judaism as a culture, then mission accomplished.

What if the Biblical Jesus didn't really exist and that, the parable of Jesus' tale is actually a fictional tale of another progressive Jewish Rabbi by another name?

If Jesus never existed, that would be much more problematic to me than the existence of the other various members of the supporting cast, but there's enough evidence that a man named Jesus did exist that at this point, with the knowledge available to us now, I am satisfied that He did.

If it could be demonstrated conclusively that Jesus did not exist, then I think that would be pretty much the death knell for Christianity, because without God actually manifesting Himself as a human being who paid the price of death to reconcile man and God, the whole central message of the faith is a lie. It's just exceedingly difficult to prove conclusively that some individual person never existed two thousand years ago, especially when there are at least some historical hints that He did.

These things perplex me.

Other than the more central tenet of Jesus' existence, I wouldn't be any more perplexed by the mythological existence of characters like Moses or Jonah or Adam and Eve any more than I would be perplexed by whether or not there was once an actual tortoise who defeated an actual hare in a foot race. Better to focus on the lessons being conveyed by the characters, rather than the characters themselves.

 

[Riders]

Well anthropology is what i was interested in when I was younger.Part of what has made me a member of the UU church in the past an interest in different cultures.

I saw an Anthropologist on youtube talk not long ago about the bible saying the bibles was a good place to study ANthropology because of all groups in Egypt and the Middle Eastm Hittites Caananites Romans Jews etc etc..........