starlite
Texasgirl
Where do I find support for this statement in the scriptures?
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how does a christian understand the bible?
- Thread starter waitasec
- Start date
Where do I find support for this statement in the scriptures?
waitasec
Veteran Member
here you go...
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 cor 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.
Philippians 4:4-5
4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
Hebrews 1:1-2
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Hebrews 10:36-37
36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For,
“In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
starlite
Texasgirl
External evidence to the effect that Matthew originally wrote this Gospel in Hebrew reaches as far back as Papias of Hierapolis, of the second century C.E. Eusebius quoted Papias as stating: Matthew collected the oracles in the Hebrew language. (The Ecclesiastical History, III, XXXIX, 16) Early in the third century, Origen made reference to Matthews account and, in discussing the four Gospels, is quoted by Eusebius as saying that the first was written . . . according to Matthew, who was once a tax-collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, . . . in the Hebrew language. (The Ecclesiastical History, VI, XXV, 3-6) The scholar Jerome (of the fourth and fifth centuries C.E.) wrote in his work De viris inlustribus (Concerning Illustrious Men), chapter III, that Matthew composed a Gospel of Christ in Judaea in the Hebrew language and characters for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed. . . . Moreover, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected.Translation from the Latin text edited by E. C. Richardson and published in the series Texte und Untersuchungen zur Geschichte der altchristlichen Literatur, Leipzig, 1896, Vol. 14, pp. 8, 9.
It has been suggested that Matthew, after compiling his account in Hebrew, may have personally translated it into Koine, the common Greek.
waitasec
Veteran Member
the definition of "descend":
to move from a higher to a lower place; come or go down
move goal posts much?
the time is short...
and we're still waiting ... paul doesn't have a good sense of time then...
"From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not"
why would he give this advice... following "the time is short"?
the definition of "now":
the present time
definitionof "near":
a short distance or interval in space or time
"these last days"
what do you suppose this means?
"in just a little while....will not delay"
in a short amount of time...will not postpone until a later time
so what do you suppose that means 2000 yrs plus later...
listen toots
thus far your rebuttal is non existent... unless you consider your objection qualifies as one
all i've seen you display is some lazy maneuvers, like these....
:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
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Please notice in verse 13 that verses 14-17 the 'we' are directed to Jesus 'brothers'.
Jesus 'brothers' that would be living on earth at the time of separation, or still be alive on earth at the time of Jesus 'brothers' being alive on earth of Matthew 25v40.
They would be Jesus 'brothers' alive at the time of Jesus 'glory' of verse 31.
Paul would have been familiar with Jesus teaching illustration of Luke 19 vs11-15 showing the long passing of time would be involved before the 'return' and would Not be immediate.
waitasec
Veteran Member
i'm not sure i understand
jesus' brother's are dead
"we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord"
the story in luke is irrelevant...
can you explain why you think it is?
starlite
Texasgirl
His literal brothers "yes" but his spiritual brothers "no".
waitasec
Veteran Member
why do i automatically presume that jesus is not an equal?
starlite
Texasgirl
excuse me...equal to what?
waitasec
Veteran Member
you call jesus your brother?
Please explain why you say Jesus illustration in Luke chapter 19 is irrelevant?
As starlite mentioned Jesus 'spiritual' brothers are not dead.
Christians alive on earth today are not dead.
Those living Christians of Matthew 25v40 are Jesus 'spiritual' brothers.
The time frame of Matthew 25v31 is the near future time of separation.
Time of separation, or time of the spiritual harvest separating genuine wheat-like Christians from the fake tares/weed-like Christians.
The time of separation of the humble meek sheep-like people from the haughty goat-like people or Matt 25v32.
Please notice how Jesus bases his choosing.
Matthew 25v40 Jesus judges the sheep and goats by how they treat his 'brothers'. So his sheep are not his brothers. [John 10v16; Luke 12v32]
Neither the sheep not the brothers are dead, but alive and living on earth at this time of divine involvement into mankind's affairs by Christ Jesus.
Jesus brothers will reign in heaven with him. -Rev20v6;5vs9,10;14v4
Jesus sheep [wheat] will be earthly subjects under heavenly rule. -Ps 72v8
The goats [tares/weeds] are the ones cut off from earth.
-Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18; Psalm 92v7; Isaiah 11v4; Rev19vs11,15
All ^this^ is still ahead of us. So the 'we/ brothers' of 1st Thess is also future.
waitasec
Veteran Member
if you consider yourself jesus brother isn't that implying he's your equal?
waitasec
Veteran Member
so he's your equal...
starlite
Texasgirl
SPIRITUAL brother....do you call the members of your congregation "brothers and sisters"? We do!
waitasec
Veteran Member
so if jesus is your spiritual brother...you and jesus are spiritually equal
meaning both you and him are righteous judges... spiritually.
since he is a spiritually righteous judge and you are his equal then so are you
is that what you mean?
starlite
Texasgirl
no....
waitasec
Veteran Member
i'm not sure how you can reconcile jesus as your spiritual brother as not being equal to him.
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
is jesus writing the letter to thessalonica or is it paul...
wouldn't paul be considered more of a brother than jesus?
so yes i still stand by my claim...paul thought jesus was coming back within his lifetime.
a short simple "no" doesn't support your claim, can you support your claim?
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
he may very well have believed that
the apostles thought that they could save Jesus from being arrested, they objected to his revelation that he was to be killed, they thought he was going to become a king and break the roman yoke
the disciples were often wrong on many points so even if Paul thought that Jesus was coming back in his day, it does not negate the fact that Jesus was coming back. Pauls understanding was correct even if his personal view on 'when' was wrong.
However, Paul was really refering to the 'WE' as a collective. Most of the NT is actually directed to annointed christians....these are the ones who will be joint heirs with Christ in the heavenly kingdom. So when Paul wrote 'we who are alive at the end', he was speaking about that collective group of christians.