How do you feel about the DC Comic figure Batman becoming an atheist?

[Shadow Wolf]

I suppose to be fair, the Marvel movies kind of mocks the idea that humans thought Loki and Thor were gods. I could see DC pulling that kind of stunt.

Marvel tends to really blur and confuse and challenge the idea of what is god. Apocalypse it's easy to get the story why everywhere he's been he's worshiped as a god, but being killed by Phoenix, though extremely incredibly powerful, we wouldn't conventionally think of Jean Grey as a god. Dr. Strange isn't much on his own, but with his magical relics we find someone who virtually is in his own right a god, even creating a time warp prison to psychologically beat an opponent into submission. And then there are the questions of what, if any, mutants are immortal? Apocalypse definitely. Deadpool maybe. Hulk probably. And Wolverine with his regenerative abilities hypothetically his body should reach a certain age and cease aging due to the further aging being something that damages his body's tissues. In some religions that immortality thing is pretty important for a god.
And when we move to demi-gods, the likes of Storm and Magneto can do very incredible things with just a very tiny portion of their powers. But from Apocalypse to Jubilee, there's always a bigger fish, a smarter adversary, or strength in numbers. So they fit our various descriptions we have used for god (collectively as a species), but in the end even the Asgardians are slated for death. So are they gods? What is a god?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Batman is not at all a very consistent character, but one of the few traits that he keeps consistent in the last few decades is that he has a strong aversion against using firearms himself.

That was a main plot in the Year Two storyline back in the late 1980s.

Kind of joking, kind of not, but it makes me wonder if Obi-Won criticizing blasters in A New Hope had anything to do with that since Jedi and Batman are both basically ninjas (though Batman far less religiously inclined).

 

[LuisDantas]

Kind of joking, kind of not, but it makes me wonder if Obi-Won criticizing blasters in A New Hope had anything to do with that since Jedi and Batman are both basically ninjas (though Batman far less religiously inclined).

The criticism of ranged weapons due to their effect on the dignity of combatants goes back centuries, at least to the backlash against the crossbow.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The criticism of ranged weapons due to their effect on the dignity of combatants goes back centuries, at least to the backlash against the crossbow.

True. It just seems unusual for such a thing in America, where the gun totting Cowboy is the closest thing to a nation hero/icon/mascot that we have.

 

[Jumi]

The criticism of ranged weapons due to their effect on the dignity of combatants goes back centuries, at least to the backlash against the crossbow.

There are some legends(?) about French hating the English longbowmen in late medieval times so much they would mutilate them after battle if captured.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Batman had Biblical values? ... Really?

I'm trying to find a comic or an episode where Batman went to church.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm trying to find a comic or an episode where Batman went to church.

There are not very many, trust me.

And what few there may be are probably of recent vintage.

 

[BilliardsBall]

That is an innovation from around 1985, actually. They were best buddies for decades.

Yes, I know, I grew up with old school DC.

 

[Jedster]

Yes, I know, I grew up with old school DC.

Good to see someone who knows the one true Batman.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes, I know, I grew up with old school DC.

How do you like Martin Pasko's histories? Did you read the classic Faora first storyline?

Now _that_ was a Superman tale!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There were some strong secular influences on Batman 1.0, including freemasonry.

It must take some interesting mental gymastics to believe that freemasonry - where not just theism but monotheism is a requirement for membership - is a secular organization.

 

[BilliardsBall]

It must take some interesting mental gymastics to believe that freemasonry - where not just theism but monotheism is a requirement for membership - is a secular organization.

You are correct. I tend to think of my freemason friends as a-religious, but you're right, they are religious by code.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The criticism of ranged weapons due to their effect on the dignity of combatants goes back centuries, at least to the backlash against the crossbow.

Interesting take regarding the criticism being based on the effect of the dignity of combatants.
In both medieval Europe and feudal Japan, the elevation of peasant soldiery to the level of legitimate threats to the lives of knights/Samurai had more to do with it, imho.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm trying to find a comic or an episode where Batman went to church.

Daredevil is a more interesting example of a dark character wrestling with his conscience if you like some good ol' Catholic guilt thrown in.

 

[Jedster]

Daredevil is a more interesting example of a dark character wrestling with his conscience if you like some good ol' Catholic guilt thrown in.

Also, Frank Castle(The Punisher) originally wanted to be a priest.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I'm not aware that he's an atheist. It's my understanding that he's a lapsed Catholic/Anglican, which is really not the same thing.

 

[LuisDantas]

Interesting take regarding the criticism being based on the effect of the dignity of combatants.
In both medieval Europe and feudal Japan, the elevation of peasant soldiery to the level of legitimate threats to the lives of knights/Samurai had more to do with it, imho.

I am not sure that I see a distinction. And I am willing to bet that the people of the time had an even harder time seeing any.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not aware that he's an atheist. It's my understanding that he's a lapsed Catholic/Anglican, which is really not the same thing.

That was sort of implied for decades, but a very recent story has Bruce Wayne stating outright that he is indeed an atheist.

To be fair, there are circunstances that may easily put his sincerity in doubt, or reverse that claim before too long. For one thing, he is implied to be not quite on his normal emotional state, due to events in Batman #50. For another, he is talking as Bruce Wayne to a fellor juror, and therefore using his public face as opposed to his intimate discourse.

The one thing that I conclude from that is that he is not afraid of allowing his public persona to be perceived as an atheist. Which is interesting and welcome, but not very meaningful.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not aware that he's an atheist. It's my understanding that he's a lapsed Catholic/Anglican, which is really not the same thing.

Those things aren’t mutually exclusive.

Heck... being a practicing Catholic/Anglican and an atheist aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I am not sure that I see a distinction. And I am willing to bet that the people of the time had an even harder time seeing any.

The people? That's more my point though. The way the peasant classes viewed this and the way the privileged classes viewed this were entirely different.