How can you tell God apart from Satan?

[AllanV]

First of all, I don't believe in God, and I don't believe in Satan, so this is purely hypothetical and a question to those who believe.

If Satan exists, wouldn't he be the one tempting you with eternal good life in a very nice place? Wouldn't he be the one trying to win the "propaganda war" with the good God by having a Holy Book or Scripture or Bible or Quran or Torah written to tell people what they need to do in order to get to this nice place he promises us?

Satan contested The Eternal God's rule. It is all played out in the mind of each and every person. Satan stands in God's place in the mind. Own thoughts, conversations and behavior are acted out from a desire, with prompting and tempting in the mind. Own personal power is taken up for own gratification and this is a place of comfort.

The mind is full of all manner of thoughts that are not actually seen for what they are. Each person is a kind of slave to play out what is observed in all human interaction and endeavor.
Satan projects and magnifies a personality apart from another leaving an impression of its presence that is remembered by others. A bonding of familiarity holds most because each has similar power. Even when people are separated some distance there is still mental bonding that can be apparent in the thoughts. Thoughts produce feelings and every one at some time uses their own skill to get the reaction they want in another person.

Some have more power and they manipulate and control. Some have less power and they are picked on. It is not seen for what it is. Every one lives and breathes in the kingdom of Satan and no one is immune.

 

[mystic64]

My point in commenting on your post . . . "because nobody can do anything without God's permission. Everything is God's fault either through direct action or through inaction" - was that 55% of the world's religion are Abrahamic and the remaining 45% would not agree with needing the Abrahamic god's permission for anything.

My name is Frank and Ernest. In New York city I am Frank and in Chicago I am Ernest. If I remember right I was talking to someone who was approaching things from the Abrahamic G-d side of religion and I was being Frank. If I had been talking to someone from the non Abrahamic G-d side of religion, then I would have been Ernest and would have said something different. Generally speaking everybody approaches things from a different reality depending on what they have been exposed to during their life experience. And if one can understand the other person's reality and the reasons for their approach to things, then everyone is right. The problem is that if you just agree with everybody because you understand why they are saying what they are saying then there is no discussion or message board activity. That is just plain not doable .

"How can you possibly come to the conclusions that you have come too!? What kind of logic lines could you possibly be using to come to those conclusions!?" Enquiring minds want to know . As far as I am concerned everybody is actually right, but that doesn't lead to message board activity. So sometimes I am Frank and sometimes I am Ernest. And interacting with and getting to meet new people in a message board setting is to me fun! No matter how they approach reality.

Thank you Salmu for your input, it is always appreciated!

 

[mystic64]

I to agree with you on this matter Satan is nothing but a tool in the hands of God

Yes Benoni, but the question is "Why?" Lord Jesus said that He came to replace the "Old Law" and the "Why?" is about the "Old Law". The Father of Lord Jesus is not the "Old God", He is new and improved, unless we invoke the Father of Lord Jesus as the "Old God". And if we do that, then the "Why?" comes back into play. It would seem to me that when a person became a reborn Christian that they would dump the "Old Law", but for some reason a lot of folks don't and they never actually get to know the Father of Lord Jesus under the "New Law". It is sad, very sad, but oh well.

Under the old law God is not a very nice person at all. And folks have a right to question His actions in my opinion.

?

 

[Benoni]

Yes Benoni, but the question is "Why?" Lord Jesus said that He came to replace the "Old Law" and the "Why?" is about the "Old Law". The Father of Lord Jesus is not the "Old God", He is new and improved, unless we invoke the Father of Lord Jesus as the "Old God". And if we do that, then the "Why?" comes back into play. It would seem to me that when a person became a reborn Christian that they would dump the "Old Law", but for some reason a lot of folks don't and they never actually get to know the Father of Lord Jesus under the "New Law". It is sad, very sad, but oh well.

Under the old law God is not a very nice person at all. And folks have a right to question His actions in my opinion.

?

Why is a big question?
Why did God create the world and caused man to fall?
Why a new covenant?
Why Jesus?
Why What????

 

[Sha'irullah]

I to agree with you on this matter Satan is nothing but a tool in the hands of God

I would take this a step further though and saying that by default everything is exists in compliance to the will of God. By merely existing everything is in a state of ibadah or enslavement to god.

I am no Calvinist but I am a panentheist when it comes to the nature and existence of god. According to a simplistic panentheistic viewpoint, everything is the will of god and obeys god. No action can escape god's will which is why my deism can easily be summarized as "Panendeism with pagan sprinkles on top"

 

[EtuMalku]

My name is Frank and Ernest. In New York city I am Frank and in Chicago I am Ernest. If I remember right I was talking to someone who was approaching things from the Abrahamic G-d side of religion and I was being Frank. If I had been talking to someone from the non Abrahamic G-d side of religion, then I would have been Ernest and would have said something different. Generally speaking everybody approaches things from a different reality depending on what they have been exposed to during their life experience. And if one can understand the other person's reality and the reasons for their approach to things, then everyone is right. The problem is that if you just agree with everybody because you understand why they are saying what they are saying then there is no discussion or message board activity. That is just plain not doable .

"How can you possibly come to the conclusions that you have come too!? What kind of logic lines could you possibly be using to come to those conclusions!?" Enquiring minds want to know . As far as I am concerned everybody is actually right, but that doesn't lead to message board activity. So sometimes I am Frank and sometimes I am Ernest. And interacting with and getting to meet new people in a message board setting is to me fun! No matter how they approach reality.

Thank you Salmu for your input, it is always appreciated!

I don't change my views depending on who I am talking with, I stand by my views regardless because they are my views.

Which "conclusions" of mine are you talking about? The 55% / 45% thing? I simply looked up the percentages online, did you think I just pulled those numbers out of a hat? :tuna:

 

[Benoni]

I would take this a step further though and saying that by default everything is exists in compliance to the will of God. By merely existing everything is in a state of ibadah or enslavement to god.

I am no Calvinist but I am a panentheist when it comes to the nature and existence of god. According to a simplistic panentheistic viewpoint, everything is the will of god and obeys god. No action can escape god's will which is why my deism can easily be summarized as "Panendeism with pagan sprinkles on top"

Nothing happens outside the will of God; or He be a god.

 

[EtuMalku]

Nothing happens outside the will of God; or He be a god.

So, what happens when there is NO god? What about all the religions that don't accept the Abrahamic god, are they wrong? What about those of us on the Left Hand Path, we do not believe there to be an external god, only an internal, individual one . . . our higher Self.

 

[Benoni]

So, what happens when there is NO god? What about all the religions that don't accept the Abrahamic god, are they wrong? What about those of us on the Left Hand Path, we do not believe there to be an external god, only an internal, individual one . . . our higher Self.

What about them? God is calling His elect so in the ages to come He can all all the people He never called

Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17that the remnant of mankind(B) may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles(C) who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18(D) known from of old.'

Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this

Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,

Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)

 

[EtuMalku]

What about them? God is calling His elect so in the ages to come He can all all the people He never called

Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17that the remnant of mankind(B) may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles(C) who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18(D) known from of old.'

Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this

Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,

Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)

I guess that all you have to back any of what you just said is that book? Hardly an argument when it's based on fiction written by men, now is it?
We have Luciferian texts and fictional writings as well, if I start quoting from them does that negate what you just quoted?

 

[Benoni]

I guess that all you have to back any of what you just said is that book? Hardly an argument when it's based on fiction written by men, now is it?
We have Luciferian texts and fictional writings as well, if I start quoting from them does that negate what you just quoted?

Go ahead if it makes you happy.

 

[EtuMalku]

Go ahead if it makes you happy.

I wouldn't, simply because making stuff up in order to substantiate one's beliefs means nothing in the greater scheme of things.

I have no reason to believe that such a god exists, and I don't see how anyone else would think so based on such a mishmash of texts written by unknown authors.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God speaks truth/ satan lies

So this was true?

Genesis 2:17:

but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not [n]eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

God humbles/satan humiliates

Isaiah 45:14,16:

Thus says the Lord, [...]

They will be put to shame and even humiliated, all of them;
The manufacturers of idols will go away together in humiliation.

God judges rightly/satan accuses

Is it "judging rightly" to condemn a fig tree for not growing fruit out of season?

Matthew 21:18-19:

18 Now in the morning, when He was returning to the city, He became hungry. 19 Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He *said to it, “No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you.” And at once the fig tree withered.

God is merciful/satan is cruel

Is it merciful to torture a newborn baby for a week to punish the child's father?

2 Samuel 12:13-19:

And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has [h]taken away your sin; you shall not die. 14 However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die.” 15 So Nathan went to his house.

Then the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s widow bore to David, so that he was very sick. 16 David therefore inquired of God for the child; and David fasted and went and lay all night on the ground. 17 The elders of his household stood beside him in order to raise him up from the ground, but he was unwilling and would not eat food with them. 18 Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, “Behold, while the child was still alive, we spoke to him and he did not listen to our voice. How then can we tell him that the child is dead, since he might do himself harm!” 19 But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David perceived that the child was dead; so David said to his servants, “Is the child dead?” And they said, “He is dead.”

God offers freedom/satan brings bondage

Matthew 11:29:

Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me

Colossians 3:22:

Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters [a]on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.

God promises hope/satan causes despair

Too long to quote - here's a link:

Matthew 23:13-33 NASB - Eight Woes -

God gives peace/satan inspires conflict

Matthew 10:34-36:

34 “Do not think that I came to [ac]bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

God is love/satan is hate

Except when it comes to "haughty eyes". Then God's all about hate.

God is life/satan is death

Old Testament Murder Count: God Vs. Satan | Table Of Malcontents | Wired.com

 

[Sha'irullah]

So, what happens when there is NO god? What about all the religions that don't accept the Abrahamic god, are they wrong? What about those of us on the Left Hand Path, we do not believe there to be an external god, only an internal, individual one . . . our higher Self.

auto-theism? As a Panendeist both external and internal are prevalent in existence.

All of our thoughts and non-material occurrences such as thought, intellect or dreams are byproducts of material existence. So by the Panendeist standard you cannot escape god even if you are a god yourself. Auto-theism can easily be equated as the enemy of humanity while being the friend of a human. Do you get the phrasing?
Auto-theism is the enemy to "all humans" but the friend to "one human"(the auto-theist). Self absorbed worship serves no benefit to us human being as we have already learned to conquer more and more of our surrounding everyday. Submission to god exceeds petty self worship and admiration of something which is just a speck of inferior dust in the cosmos. If god is defined as the self then god is weak. You are essentially choosing a lesser being to bear the title god.

I can only recommend one thing to cure you of vain auto-theism........WORSHIP THE DIVINE MASTER BOY!

 

[EtuMalku]

auto-theism? As a Panendeist both external and internal are prevalent in existence.

All of our thoughts and non-material occurrences such as thought, intellect or dreams are byproducts of material existence. So by the Panendeist standard you cannot escape god even if you are god.

I can only recommend one thing to cure you of vain auto-theism........kneel to the divine master boy!

Interesting, the LHP sees it just the opposite. We give meaning to the objective universe through our subjective universes, not the other way around. The objective universe is the natural world, while the subjective universe is understood as the individually experienced world.

God becomes in this paradigm, nothing more than an archetypal structure empowered by man for the sole purpose of providing religious comfort and community.

Obviously the Panendeist is always believing he is doing the Will of some god/deity, while we Luciferians are doing our own Will for we recognize only our own authority and a philosophically achieved realization that no one is higher than the Self.

 

[AllanV]

Obviously the Panendeist is always believing he is doing the Will of some god/deity, while we Luciferians are doing our own Will for we recognize only our own authority and a philosophically achieved realization that no one is higher than the Self.

Overall the message is that if one fulfills the desires of the flesh and this includes the self then that person will die a final death. If one is able to overcome then the reward is immortality.
What mind is required to be immortal? Selfish or selfless? God is Known in the transformation and renewal of the mind.
Is the mind being tricked into own self importance because the flesh demands to be kept strong by eating, gathering competitively, providing and procreating while the ego needs to be satisfied as well.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Overall the message is that if one fulfills the desires of the flesh and this includes the self then that person will die a final death. If one is able to overcome then the reward is immortality.

We all become immortal and even mortal in flesh. We return from where we came and thus have achieved immortality.

What mind is required to be immortal? Selfish or selfless? God is Known in the transformation and renewal of the mind.
Is the mind being tricked into own self importance because the flesh demands to be kept strong by eating, gathering competitively, providing and procreating while the ego needs to be satisfied as well.

You are fulfilling a needless ego by wishing to be immortal though and wrongfully so. You wish to become immortal in consciousness while I have no proof that God has permitted such a thing.

I am being humble here, you sure aren't.

You wish to fulfill the desires of the flesh and live for eternity in a flesh like state. A state of awareness and a state of perpetual happiness. This is as carnal as it gets. The very concept of immortal is carnal so an oxymoron cannot be used to suffice a proper negation.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Interesting, the LHP sees it just the opposite. We give meaning to the objective universe through our subjective universes, not the other way around. The objective universe is the natural world, while the subjective universe is understood as the individually experienced world.

I have just said this though and I strongly agree with it. Auto-theism cannot possibly lead to this or else it would not be auto-theism.

God becomes in this paradigm, nothing more than an archetypal structure empowered by man for the sole purpose of providing religious comfort and community.

In most cases this is exactly true

Obviously the Panendeist is always believing he is doing the Will of some god/deity,

Actually this is not true. Most Panendeists do not even assign will yet alone consciousness to god or describe it in such a manner. The argument is more word play then literalism.

while we Luciferians are doing our own Will for we recognize only our own authority and a philosophically achieved realization that no one is higher than the Self.

This is a free will argument though. I do not accept free will. Our will power is a result of physicality. The physical existence of the brain and our experiences which we do not choose but are predestined to make based upon our natures which exceed any choice.

This argument is essentially more about out own free will then the will of god it seems. Your form of auto-theism is sort of naive on certain issues but these are philosophical ones primarily which are based our opinions on.

Sort of means that our views repel each other before we even get started . Me and you would have to form a basis for what free will is before we argue about Panendeism and auto-theism.

 

[AllanV]

We all become immortal and even mortal in flesh. We return from where we came and thus have achieved immortality.

You are fulfilling a needless ego by wishing to be immortal though and wrongfully so. You wish to become immortal in consciousness while I have no proof that God has permitted such a thing.

I am being humble here, you sure aren't.

You wish to fulfill the desires of the flesh and live for eternity in a flesh like state. A state of awareness and a state of perpetual happiness. This is as carnal as it gets. The very concept of immortal is carnal so an oxymoron cannot be used to suffice a proper negation.

I cannot imagine in my own mind what it would be like to be immortal but only the continuous experience of God shows the possibility. The Bible message is that immortality was lost at the Garden of Eden and the way back in is hidden. The mind can be opened to know God and the way in is then found. But own life has to be given up entirely including ego. God indwells powerfully and the Love of His Son is revealed.

Science explores aging and what causes it. The future could bring longer life but probably only for the wealthy or those considered worthy by human standards. God chooses not man and it is an inner transformation in His power.

 

[EtuMalku]

I have just said this though and I strongly agree with it. Auto-theism cannot possibly lead to this or else it would not be auto-theism.

Oops, wouldn't be the first time that I misread/misunderstood what someone was saying! :foot:

Actually this is not true. Most Panendeists do not even assign will yet alone consciousness to god or describe it in such a manner. The argument is more word play then literalism.

Gotcha!

This is a free will argument though. I do not accept free will. Our will power is a result of physicality. The physical existence of the brain and our experiences which we do not choose but are predestined to make based upon our natures which exceed any choice.

What if the brain is merely the physical housing/organ that transmits the abstractions of our Higher Self to us in this material form?