How can you tell God apart from Satan?

[ruffen]

First of all, I don't believe in God, and I don't believe in Satan, so this is purely hypothetical and a question to those who believe.

If Satan exists, wouldn't he be the one tempting you with eternal good life in a very nice place? Wouldn't he be the one trying to win the "propaganda war" with the good God by having a Holy Book or Scripture or Bible or Quran or Torah written to tell people what they need to do in order to get to this nice place he promises us?

Wouldn't that also explain why said scriptures tell stories about people sacrificing their own children in order to show their obedience to their Lord, and encourage people to blindly follow any command from the Lord instead of thinking for themselves and teach the Lord a thing or two about morality? How do we know that this Lord is good and not evil?

If you were Satan and wanted to lure millions into worshipping you, wouldn't you claim to be God and warn about horrible punishments if people didn't follow your lead?

And if you feel the presence of God in your life or in your soul, how can you know that this is the real God and not "the deceiver" that Satan is?

Wouldn't the more "morally challenged" stories and passages and inconsistencies and logical fallacies in the scriptures be such a hint that if a supernatural being is behind it, it might not be a loving God but something far less pleasant?

 

[Riverwolf]

I thought of that when I first heard this song:

[youtube]GXMBxS56Sjs[/youtube]

^_^

Honestly, that's partially why I'm a polytheistic pantheist rather than a Zoroastrian-type monotheist (that is, with a supernatural battle of good and evil.) I don't believe any of the Gods are entirely good, or entirely evil. Just like nature, the Gods can be beautiful and kind, but simultaneously harsh and unforgiving. And sometimes one will get bored and decide to troll someone.

 

[freethinker44]

How can you tell God apart From Satan?

Easy.

One is a tyrannical maniac who encourages rape, murder, and genocide and has demanded sacrifices in his name...

... and the other was thrown in hell for rebelling against that.

 

[Riverwolf]

Easy.

One is a tyrannical maniac who encourages rape, murder, and genocide and has demanded sacrifices in his name...

... and the other was thrown in hell for rebelling against that.

Zeus or Prometheus?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Easy.

One is a tyrannical maniac who encourages rape, murder, and genocide and has demanded sacrifices in his name...

... and the other was thrown in hell for rebelling against that.

Or, alternatively, wanted a piece of the action.

 

[freethinker44]

Or, alternatively, wanted a piece of the action.

True.

 

[freethinker44]

Zeus or Prometheus?

OK, I get it, "the atheist is using the label 'God' as if it only applied to one religion", and you're correct this happens a lot. But I think in this case, with the God being compared to a specific character by name from a specific religion, I think the God in question is obvious.

 

[Tarheeler]

First of all, I don't believe in God, and I don't believe in Satan, so this is purely hypothetical and a question to those who believe.

Given that you don't believe, is there any reason in particular you went with a Christian-centric POV?

 

[Riverwolf]

OK, I get it, "the atheist is using the label 'God' as if it only applied to one religion", and you're correct this happens a lot. But I think in this case, with the God being compared to a specific character by name from a specific religion, I think the God in question is obvious.

Actually, I was supporting the notion, just shifting the mythology to a different one. The Lucifer/Satan of Christian mythology reminds me of Prometheus.

 

[psychoslice]

If you believe in the bible, then I have to say there is no difference between god and the devil, in fact I would have to say god is worse than the devil as he has killed many more than the devil.

 

[freethinker44]

Actually, I was supporting the notion, just shifting the mythology to a different one. The Lucifer/Satan of Christian mythology reminds me of Prometheus.

My apologies then.

I have never made the connection between Satan and Prometheus, too much programming I guess, but it does seem to fit.

 

[Riverwolf]

My apologies then.

I have never made the connection between Satan and Prometheus, too much programming I guess, but it does seem to fit.

It does make sense, since early Christianity was heavily influenced by Greco-Roman culture and religion.

 

[Caladan]

First of all, I don't believe in God, and I don't believe in Satan, so this is purely hypothetical and a question to those who believe.

If Satan exists, wouldn't he be the one tempting you with eternal good life in a very nice place? Wouldn't he be the one trying to win the "propaganda war" with the good God by having a Holy Book or Scripture or Bible or Quran or Torah written to tell people what they need to do in order to get to this nice place he promises us?

Wouldn't that also explain why said scriptures tell stories about people sacrificing their own children in order to show their obedience to their Lord, and encourage people to blindly follow any command from the Lord instead of thinking for themselves and teach the Lord a thing or two about morality? How do we know that this Lord is good and not evil?

If you were Satan and wanted to lure millions into worshipping you, wouldn't you claim to be God and warn about horrible punishments if people didn't follow your lead?

And if you feel the presence of God in your life or in your soul, how can you know that this is the real God and not "the deceiver" that Satan is?

Wouldn't the more "morally challenged" stories and passages and inconsistencies and logical fallacies in the scriptures be such a hint that if a supernatural being is behind it, it might not be a loving God but something far less pleasant?

There were gnostic Christians who said the above during the first centuries of the common era, however Christian 'orthodoxy' made sure to remove them. Much of the wars of orthodox Chiristian thinkers was no to argue with Jews or various pagans but with other Christian groups that were seen as heresies, many of them said similar things to what you said above.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

And if you feel the presence of God in your life or in your soul, how can you know that this is the real God and not "the deceiver" that Satan is?

This is a very nice question and a great thread.

In worshiping a 'God', which is so very far removed from what the popular, secular notion of what a 'God' even is (even within my own Faith), this thought sometimes crosses my mind.

Occasionally, I get those who will say 'Shiva is just Satan' or 'Your Religion is false' or 'Shiva doesn't exist, he is only a fantasy you have created within your mind' or 'it is only an elaborate fantasy (Mithya) and you still remain deluded'...I have heard it all.

In the beginning, I started to question my own Faith and started praying to Shiva in my heart 'Hey, God, are you really the Devil'? To which I then understood that God also was the Devil!' *insert Jai Bhuteshwar*

Now, that would be blasphemous to most religious people, but if God is everything, how can we deny the fact He is Evil also? He is just...everything!

How do I tell it's not 'The Devil' whenever I ask the question? because of how much love He fills me with, spreading to everything surrounding me.

I don't want to hurt/harm anybody and I am like a brick wall if anybody else tries. I just know that what's inside me is the 'Light Side Of The Force'...it may appear 'Dark' at times through certain magic rituals I do to attain it, but I do it out of the love He inspires me with, and for good things...

....although, 500 years ago, I would have been burned at the stake.

I just know it's God inside, regardless of what others say - until they can see the God inside them too.

 

[Iti oj]

The devil is never any more evil then when he appears to be the angle of light or in this case god. Yes this is something I have asked many times before.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

First of all, I don't believe in God, and I don't believe in Satan, so this is purely hypothetical and a question to those who believe.

If Satan exists, wouldn't he be the one tempting you with eternal good life in a very nice place? Wouldn't he be the one trying to win the "propaganda war" with the good God by having a Holy Book or Scripture or Bible or Quran or Torah written to tell people what they need to do in order to get to this nice place he promises us?

Wouldn't that also explain why said scriptures tell stories about people sacrificing their own children in order to show their obedience to their Lord, and encourage people to blindly follow any command from the Lord instead of thinking for themselves and teach the Lord a thing or two about morality? How do we know that this Lord is good and not evil?

If you were Satan and wanted to lure millions into worshipping you, wouldn't you claim to be God and warn about horrible punishments if people didn't follow your lead?

And if you feel the presence of God in your life or in your soul, how can you know that this is the real God and not "the deceiver" that Satan is?

Wouldn't the more "morally challenged" stories and passages and inconsistencies and logical fallacies in the scriptures be such a hint that if a supernatural being is behind it, it might not be a loving God but something far less pleasant?

Satan in that context is a very Christian way of thought. IT would appear though that is not how Satan was always looked at and one can argue very well that in the Bible Satan is still not portrayed that way.

Essentially all Good and Evil comes from God, everything, it all emanates from God (one of the reasons I think that in Judaism there is no such thing as original sin), God is the creator of all things, and through all things God is made. Satan is subservient, doing Gods will in testing the Children of Israel. The Book of Job is a good example of the wonders of Gods power.

 

[BruceDLimber]

In our view God is One, Supreme, and has no equal or rival! There is thus no "devil" out there competing with Him or trying to “get us.”

And "satan" merely refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[ruffen]

Thanks for your inputs on this.

It seems the problem of evil has been solved. The problem states that if God is
1. all-knowing (knows about suffering)
2. all-good (wants to stop suffering)
3. all-powerful (able to stop suffering)

then why is there suffering?

It seems that point 2 is a non-starter then, as the One God is responsible for either creating Satan/The Devil if he exists, or even takes on that role himself.

But what then of all the talk about God's love for humanity and for each one of us? What about those who feel that God fills them with love?

If that same God is responsible for unspeakable pain and suffering (man-made as well as natural), and if even Heaven is quite reminiscent of Hell and God is more or less indistiguishable from the classical view of the Devil, then why worship that God?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

How can you tell God apart from Satan?

By the shoes.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

There's no way to know, nor any compelling reason to think, that god's agenda isn't what we would define as bad or immoral, and that god's adversary fights against god's evil goals. It's only humans projecting their moral values onto their theology which defines god as good, and satan as evil.

Perhaps god produces species in the hopes of developing species who excel in violence, war, and depravity. Perhaps god's adversary fights this in the hope of making species see the value in peace, love, and harmony.

I don't see anything in the universe which provides evidence one way or the other.