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How are these Great Beings explained?

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Jesus said that anyone who lusts has already committed adultery in his/her heart. I'm sure the Baha'i Faith has rules that try to keep people's thoughts pure. Could you post some of them?

Here are some similar Words from Baha'u'llah regarding who is a true Bahá'í.

“Say: He is not to be numbered with the people of Bahá who followeth his mundane desires, or fixeth his heart on things of the earth. He is My true follower who, if he come to a valley of pure gold, will pass straight through it aloof as a cloud, and will neither turn back, nor pause. Such a man is, assuredly, of Me. From his garment the Concourse on high can inhale the fragrance of sanctity....

And if he met the fairest and most comely of women, he would not feel his heart seduced by the least shadow of desire for her beauty. Such an one, indeed, is the creation of spotless chastity. Thus instructeth you the Pen of the Ancient of Days, as bidden by your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bountiful.”

Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Yes this is the Baha'i' POV. It's not the POV of most of the planet. So the 'we' you mean is the Baha'i'.

All people are free to choose what they believe in or don't believe in right? Except maybe in places like Iran where Baha'is and other minorities are oppressed for believing differently.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I think we would be struggling to find the remains of anyone who died nearly 2000 years ago. The inability to do this doesn't prove a resurrection.

Since he rose both body and spirit, how would anyone say it's false? When there is no body in the cave, they automatically said jesus went up. They saw him go up. He came back down again body/spirit for another chat. Went back up after saying he would return.

Since god can't be proved or disproved, if god-believers say he exist and it's true why would it be any different than the truth of the resurrection?

Why not question god's existence but say the resurrection can't be proven when to many christians they go together?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Since he rose both body and spirit, how would anyone say it's false?

Because they believe it didn't really happen.

When there is no body in the cave, they automatically said jesus went up.

So the story goes. Even so, is an empty tomb a proof of a resurrection?

They saw him go up. He came back down again body/spirit for another chat. Went back up after saying he would return.

A few of us would rightly question the plausibility of such a story.

Since god can't be proved or disproved, if god-believers say he exist and it's true why would it be any different than the truth of the resurrection?

Not all people who believe in God, believe in the resurrection, Muslims and Baha'is for example.

Why not question god's existence but say the resurrection can't be proven when to many christians they go together?

That's fine to question God's existence, but I would argue the evidence for the existence of God is much stronger than the resurrection.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That's fine to question God's existence, but I would argue the evidence for the existence of God is much stronger than the resurrection.

How so?

They both are supported by supernatural and natural events. People are resurrected unto christ on a daily basis and that's just as more proof than someone hearing god whisper to them about an answer of something on their mind. New Body and union with god is seen by the congregation of people on earth (as it is in heaven) just as you see a congregation of Pagans as well as Spiritualist come to worship god of in their image and/or to their understanding.

They are both supernatural. How is god's evidence more strong (not popular and quantity but strong quality) than rising up in the air as a human and spirit?

That, and how do Bahai see themselves reuniting with god? Does the flesh die or do they get a new body?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
How so?

They both are supported by supernatural and natural events.

The existence of God is.The resurrection isn't.

The proof is the Great Teachers they have inspired. These were people that were raised to exalted heights and in turn raised up a community of devotees who have passed on to many generations teachings that have transformed clay into mountains and a speck into a star. The blind can see, the deaf can hear, the lame can walk the spiritual path of God. This is the true resurrection. This is the true miracle. This is the proof.

People are resurrected unto christ on a daily basis and that's just as more proof than someone hearing god whisper to them about an answer of something on their mind.

Please explain to me how that works in the real world?

New Body and union with god is seen by the congregation of people on earth (as it is in heaven) just as you see a congregation of Pagans as well as Spiritualist come to worship god of in their image and/or to their understanding.

This all just part of the metaphorical language such as being born again and having living waters flowing out of us. It is how we understand our relationship with God, Christ, our purpose in life, and the world to come.

They are both supernatural. How is god's evidence more strong (not popular and quantity but strong quality) than rising up in the air as a human and spirit?

We know that the Great Teachers were real, each has a book as a record of their teachings, and influence that has formed the basis of civilisations. I believe this could have only been achieved through the power of God.

That, and how do Bahai see themselves reuniting with god?

When our physical body dies, our soul is reunited with God.

Does the flesh die or do they get a new body?

The flesh dies but we already have a soul or new body as we speak. The soul came into being at conception.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
All people are free to choose what they believe in or don't believe in right? Except maybe in places like Iran where Baha'is and other minorities are oppressed for believing differently.

I was just re-expressing how your use of the word 'we' is often confusing. You project it from your narrow Baha'i' world view to it being the view of everyone. It's a deceptive thing in writing/speaking, and commonly used on this thread, consciously or subconsciously.

Had nothing at all to do with how you responded.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The existence of God is.The resurrection isn't.

The proof is the Great Teachers they have inspired. These were people that were raised to exalted heights and in turn raised up a community of devotees who have passed on to many generations teachings that have transformed clay into mountains and a speck into a star. The blind can see, the deaf can hear, the lame can walk the spiritual path of God. This is the true resurrection. This is the true miracle. This is the proof.



Please explain to me how that works in the real world?



This all just part of the metaphorical language such as being born again and having living waters flowing out of us. It is how we understand our relationship with God, Christ, our purpose in life, and the world to come.



We know that the Great Teachers were real, each has a book as a record of their teachings, and influence that has formed the basis of civilisations. I believe this could have only been achieved through the power of God.



When our physical body dies, our soul is reunited with God.



The flesh dies but we already have a soul or new body as we speak. The soul came into being at conception.

Both Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha say that when we die we take on another form.

God will give us a form that better suits us:

When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation. (Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157)

Our souls will take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm:

The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm. (Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194)

What Will the Next World Look Like?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
I was just re-expressing how your use of the word 'we' is often confusing. You project it from your narrow Baha'i' world view to it being the view of everyone. It's a deceptive thing in writing/speaking, and commonly used on this thread, consciously or subconsciously.

Had nothing at all to do with how you responded.

Yes I often forget. Sometimes I mean us Baha'is and other times humanity so I'll try and remember to specify. It's a bad habit dying hard. Thanks for corrections past, present & future.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Yes I often forget. Sometimes I mean us Baha'is and other times humanity so I'll try and remember to specify. It's a bad habit dying hard. Thanks for corrections past, present & future.
Often, for people who are in the habit of projecting their views into the minds of others, 'we' is the chosen pronoun. More often than not, it should be 'I'. Even when you say 'we Baha'i',' you're subtly insinuating you personally can speak for all of Baha'i, when in fact some Baha'i' might disagree with you. In my view, 'I' is most often the more accurate pronoun. Certainly 'we' anything is subjective.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The existence of God is.The resurrection isn't.

The resurrection is just as supernatural as god. Scripture does say he risen, returned, and will come again. If going by scripture and using scripture to prove itself true, I don't understand why you need more for the resurrection but then when millions of people talk about god, you're okay with that.

The proof is the Great Teachers they have inspired. These were people that were raised to exalted heights and in turn raised up a community of devotees who have passed on to many generations teachings that have transformed clay into mountains and a speck into a star. The blind can see, the deaf can hear, the lame can walk the spiritual path of God. This is the true resurrection. This is the true miracle. This is the proof.

These people did not live that far ago. These people are actually people. You can be a great teacher just as a guru or someone who has no home in the streets. Anyone can be inspired by god. If you're using your experiences and thousands of others as evidence, that's the same as millions of people believing in the resurrection. They are both supernatural things.

One Bahai just invalidated my experiences as prove of the resurrection (and crucifixion and life of christ). If you do not believe in your (if you two think alike) and other people's experiences as proof for both the resurrection and existence of god, then, it sounds more a hypocritical statement. You believe in one supernatural thing over another as if god and resurrection can be written in detailed in a book rather than experienced.

Please explain to me how that works in the real world?

Go and participate in Mass. People take the Eucharist twice a day up here and three times a daily further south of me. I'm sure people in the churchs aren't ghosts. Real world, yes, people hear god's voice. More personal, I felt physically, my grandmother's spirit (let's say her spirit is god instead). It was powerful, unmistakable, probably would have got me runned over by another car if I didn't catch my footing. I mean, I can try to go back 3,000 years and ask the apostle John to write my experience in the book so you can believe me or you can take my word for it. I don't feel the book is necessary to know god; that's me.

This all just part of the metaphorical language such as being born again and having living waters flowing out of us. It is how we understand our relationship with God, Christ, our purpose in life, and the world to come.

Since the body is sin, it will be shed and christians will receive a new body

Union with god happens with a group of believers come together in worship both on earth and with god in heaven.

It isn't metaphorical. Unless your relationship with god is metaphorical?

We know that the Great Teachers were real, each has a book as a record of their teachings, and influence that has formed the basis of civilisations. I believe this could have only been achieved through the power of God.

I believe John Smith was real because of his book. I believe the historical buddha exist because there is proof there too. The difference is John Smith, Paul, Muhammad, wrote about something (or one of you like) that cannot be proven outside their own experiences. I'd tell them "cool. now I know who god is to you" because they speak from their experience.

On this thread Bahai don't trust to tell their experiences and one invalidated mine, and Vinakaya feels his experiences are not made for words. So, talking through experiences became moot nowadays. That's how I learn, though. Not through scripture, but talking to a real life person.

Some fuss whether jesus exists or not. As if jesus (and the other prophets) are not depended on god to exist but god is dependent on them to exist. If that be the cause, that's a huge proof god does not exist.

When our physical body dies, our soul is reunited with God.

Yes. In scripture it teaches when you die, you'll have a new physical body and your spirit will be cleansed of sin. Then you will live with god forever. I know JW extended a bit but forgot to ask them the verse. THey talk about a new earth. Which makes sense, since god keeps restarting this planet again a again. When your soul goes to go, then what?

The flesh dies but we already have a soul or new body as we speak. The soul came into being at conception.

We have a new body? (Looks at her EEG plugs glued to hear head and a set of pills on my table). I know christianity sees new body as perfect with no illness etc. The Spirit (or soul, either or) is free of sin so the body doesn't have that temptation anymore. Everyone lives happy ever after.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
No, Genesis is not wrong but Baha'u'llah has corrected a mistake in the recording and stated that it was Ishmael not Isaac that was offered up as a sacrifice.

If Moses got his words from god, and he wrote scripture, and you believe in it, why would Bahaullah feel a need to correct it? Why would he feel a need to correct another revealed prophet's message?
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I was just re-expressing how your use of the word 'we' is often confusing. You project it from your narrow Baha'i' world view to it being the view of everyone. It's a deceptive thing in writing/speaking, and commonly used on this thread, consciously or subconsciously.

Had nothing at all to do with how you responded.

We is projected from Gods all embracing Creation to this narrow thinking material world. ;)

It is what We as Humanity must acheive, We in Unity.

The Baha'i view is rightly world embracing as Baha'u'llah urges us that there is no more I. The thoughts and actions taken are for Us, We Humanity.

We will always try not to use I and think I.

"This limitless universe is like the human body, all the members of which are connected and linked with one another with the greatest strength. How much the organs, the members and the parts of the body of man are intermingled and connected for mutual aid and help, and how much they influence one another! In the same way, the parts of this infinite universe have their members and elements connected with one another, and influence one another spiritually and materially."

(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, pp. 245–246)

There is an I but it is only healthy when it works as We.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
We is projected from Gods all embracing Creation to this narrow thinking material world. ;)

It is what We as Humanity must acheive, We in Unity.

The Baha'i view is rightly world embracing as Baha'u'llah urges us that there is no more I. The thoughts and actions taken are for Us, We Humanity.

We will always try not to use I and think I.

"This limitless universe is like the human body, all the members of which are connected and linked with one another with the greatest strength. How much the organs, the members and the parts of the body of man are intermingled and connected for mutual aid and help, and how much they influence one another! In the same way, the parts of this infinite universe have their members and elements connected with one another, and influence one another spiritually and materially."

(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, pp. 245–246)

Regards Tony

So from this logic, you're fine with me speaking on your behalf? lol

BTW, just where in Australia is 9000 km from Normanton? I checked Perth, and it was just over 5000 k.

I do agree that 'we' has it's place. just not in projections out from any small faith that isn't anywhere nearly representative of humanity. No different than saying , "We live in Canada." Frankly it's laughable.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Yes I often forget. Sometimes I mean us Baha'is and other times humanity so I'll try and remember to specify. It's a bad habit dying hard. Thanks for corrections past, present & future.

We appreciate, that you David, are embracing the World of Humanity in your thoughts and actions.

I can say We do not mind when we understand this is your motive. :);)

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
So from this logic, you're fine with me speaking on your behalf? lol

BTW, just where in Australia is 9000 km from Normanton? I checked Perth, and it was just over 5000 k.

I do agree that 'we' has it's place. just not in projections out from any small faith that isn't anywhere nearly representative of humanity. No different than saying , "We live in Canada." Frankly it's laughable.

We when we are talking about God and His Creation and what we must do to find our unity. We when it effects the body as a whole.

There is more than One way to Normanton and David does not live near Normanton. I took a substantial detour to see David and Another friend on the Southern East Coast. Perth to Newcastle is about 5000km with the best direct Route and then to Cairns another 2300Km then to Normanton another 700km...there is 8000 without detours. :)

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
We is projected from Gods all embracing Creation to this narrow thinking material world. ;)

It is what We as Humanity must acheive, We in Unity.

The Baha'i view is rightly world embracing as Baha'u'llah urges us that there is no more I. The thoughts and actions taken are for Us, We Humanity.

We will always try not to use I and think I.

"This limitless universe is like the human body, all the members of which are connected and linked with one another with the greatest strength. How much the organs, the members and the parts of the body of man are intermingled and connected for mutual aid and help, and how much they influence one another! In the same way, the parts of this infinite universe have their members and elements connected with one another, and influence one another spiritually and materially."

(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, pp. 245–246)

There is an I but it is only healthy when it works as We.

Regards Tony

When I asked you (or someone) to speak as we-humanity, and none of you do, what was the reason?

If Bahai views are humanity's views, we just haven't accepted them yet, would it make sense logically to refer to humanity and yourself when expressing your beliefs? Also, would you not have a belief separate from humanity as a whole but talk via the core humanity's belief rather than your own?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
LH understood my point with ease, even thanked me for the reminder.

No individual can possibly speak for humanity. Not Baha'u'llah, not Christ, not Buddha, not me, not you. But to combine them, as Carlita indicated, would be to start such 'belief statements that try to sound like facts' with "I think we..."

As an example. I think we need to drop all these odd infallible prophet based religions and start thinking for ourselves.
 
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