1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

House to vote on $1.9 trillion stimulus bill on Friday

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Stevicus, Feb 24, 2021.

  1. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    18,070
    Ratings:
    +10,620
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    House to vote on $1.9 trillion COVID-19 stimulus bill Friday - UPI.com

    Well, maybe we're finally getting somewhere with this. Took long enough.

    It seems certain to pass in the House, but there are two Democratic senators opposed to the minimum wage increase and could vote against it. The Republicans and the US Chamber of Commerce are against it.

    I can't believe Sen. Sinema is against it. That's disappointing.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  2. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    76,157
    Ratings:
    +37,802
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    The $15/hr minimum wage is not even close to being controversial as good for the economy. Not in the sense of anyone familiar with the evidence for it would think of as 'controversial'. That's how agenda-driven and in bad faith is the opposition to it.

    Check out the economic studies of what happened in Seattle following raising the minimum wage there. Pay attention to what the discontents predicted would happen, and how it panned out almost exactly opposite as they said it would. Then go find as many other reports as you can about other relevant studies. About a hundred cities have raising the minimum wage in some stage of progress. There are many studies now.

    This is 'all boats rise together' economics.

    By 'boats', I do not mean battleships, such as Walmart's. One of the biggest and most influential of the lobbyists at work against raising the wage.

    As always, vet your sources.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    76,157
    Ratings:
    +37,802
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    FDR took office with the South locked together in solidarity against him. Five days later, he signed his first New Deal bill into law. Stack that up against Biden and his chances of doing anything without a public outpouring of support.

    FDR was one of America's few presidents who understood politics on both a nuts and bolts level and on a more birds-eye level, though he was at least as intuitive about his birds-eye view as anyone can be and still claim they have a useful view of something.

    But basically, he knew how to bring overwhelming pressure on those Senators to force them to give up their jobs or vote his way on the New Deal. He did the same to the Democrats in the House who wanted to stand in his way. And he cleared a road for the New Deal in just five days.

    That's politics on the FDR/Lincoln level. Johnson and Nixon were in so many ways both at least close to that.

    I think there's a chance Yang could learn the ropes of doing something on that level. But I'm much more optimistic about John Fetterman these days. He's the Lt. Governor of Pennsylvania who is already off and running for Senator in 2024. If there's such a thing as a genuine tiger in American politics at the moment, that would be him today, adolescent years -- right down to being teenage insatiable for both food and a good fight.

    The 'tiger' already has a proven record of wining votes from the more economically motivated Trump voters.

    But I am far from counting any chickens yet.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,380
    Ratings:
    +2,518
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness
    Think about everything the FED will be able to buy with all that extra debt. And now they don't even need the printing process anymore, it's done digitally. Create trillions and trillions of "free" currency on a computer screen. Jerome Powel must be having the time of his life. Too bad nothing is really free :rolleyes:
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    3,930
    Ratings:
    +1,685
    Religion:
    Judaism
    This isn’t a “stimulus”. It is a giveaway, pork laden monstrosity. It isn’t possible to spend one’s way into prosperity.
     
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,156
    Ratings:
    +16,056
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    No, it's a bill to help those who need help in various areas, versus something like the Trump tax break that had over 80% of the $ going to the wealthy and large businesses/corporations at a time when our economy was still growing, thus not in need. Were you opposed to this latter item?
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    33,765
    Ratings:
    +14,104
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    I'm not against this, but still, there is a lingering concern.

    How in the world is all this going be paid for?

    I can't help but think we are in serious economic trouble for a long long time to come with a very hefty price tag to go along with it.
     
  8. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    33,765
    Ratings:
    +14,104
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    My mind thinks about the gold standard, and what we have now.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,528
    Ratings:
    +899
    If it was really a bill to help those in need it would provide help to those actually in need rather than a blanket set amount for everyone, and it would be loaded with pork.
     
  10. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    3,930
    Ratings:
    +1,685
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Hogwash. This pork ladened bill will cost each American, every man, woman and child, $10,000. Don’t think you won’t pay for it. You will. Even those that don’t pay taxes will pay indirectly. And the money will go to Biden’s buddies. His fat cat wealthy friends. So don’t buy that misdirection nonsense. Biden is laughing at all the dolts that fall for that.
     
  11. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    18,070
    Ratings:
    +10,620
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    How do we end up paying for anything in this country? If there's a flood or a hurricane, we somehow manage to find money to help the people affected by it. Same for other disasters, crises, wars, etc. Of course, we could minimize the damage and the price tag by better long-term planning, which is the major weakness in our system at present. Myopia has been America's biggest problem since the Reagan years.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,156
    Ratings:
    +16,056
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Because of the necessity of providing financial aid quickly, there simply is not enough time to try and determine which families are already OK and which aren't. When 1/4 to 1/3 of all American families are struggling with getting enough food, action is needed NOW. Same with struggling businesses, people trying to pay their rent, etc.

    What my wife and I have done with what we got in the last stimulus was to up our charitable donations, and if this new bill passes we will up it again as there's a world of hurt in our society, and people need help NOW.

    And most of this money will get spent quickly, and that spending will stimulate the economy that will help us all in the long run.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,156
    Ratings:
    +16,056
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    So, just ignore the plight of the 1/4 to 1/3 of the American families that are struggling to get food? Just ignore those that may be evicted because they can't pay their rent? Just ignore so many small businesses who need a financial boast to stay afloat? Just ignore the schools that can't provide the basic PPE's to keep students and teachers safe? Etc.

    And if you are so concerned about the budget, where were you when the Pubs passed that huge tax break that mostly went to large business and the wealthy at a time when it was not needed because the economy was already on the upswing? I don't remember you posting opposition like you did above?

    Our people and our economy need help-- NOW!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. esmith

    esmith Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +1,830
    Religion:
    No name designated at this time.
    Just a minute according to the following:Biden plan would devote billions to addressing learning loss
    K-12 schools would get nearly $130 billion, or to be precise, $128.6 billion. That amounts to about $2,600 per public school student, although the exact amount would vary by district. It’s significantly more than what has already been allocated by Congress for schools (about $13 billion in March 2020 and another $54 billion late last year).

    However according to the following: Schools Haven't Spent Much Coronavirus Relief Money From Congress. Here's Why.
    A Government Accountability Office report published last month found that by the end of May, states had expended less than 1 percent of the money available to them under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security, or CARES, Act. That figure covered the $13 billion district fund and $3 billion that governors can spend on K-12 and higher education. During a Sunday interview with CNN, U.S. Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos alluded to the GAO report to suggest that schools don’t aren’t lacking federal support to reopen.

    Then we have this: Fraction of Biden's $128B education relief plan would go toward schools in 2021, CBO estimates
    The CBO estimates that the number would increase to $32 billion in 2022 and 2023, respectively. The rest of the money would be paid out through 2028, according to a cost estimate released Monday.

    So what is the rush to get this portion of the bill passed??????
     
  15. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,528
    Ratings:
    +899
    Help us in the long run? Actually, I think you mean our children and grandchildren will be paying for this in the long run.
     
  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,156
    Ratings:
    +16,056
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Actually, the only real concern is the interest rate on the debt, but which can actually be handled in another way. In reality, this kind of "the sky is falling" talk has been mouthed for many decades now, and yet we are still the #1 economic superpower.

    Right now, millions of Americans need help, and economists are telling us that with this stimulus our economy is set to take off, and one estimate I've heard yesterday [Paul Krugman's] has it at an annual rate of maybe as high as 6.5%.
     
  17. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,528
    Ratings:
    +899
    That’d be quite the growth.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,156
    Ratings:
    +16,056
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Exactly but, otoh, there's a danger with that in that people often get reckless, possibly leading to "overheating" and "bubbles", and then if there's a downturn it can become quite a slippery slope. 2-4% of steady growth is actually safer.
     
  19. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    18,070
    Ratings:
    +10,620
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    House Democrats pass $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief bill - UPI.com

    Pelosi said that if the Senate removes the provision for raising the minimum wage, the House will still pass it.

    The Republicans were against the bill.

     
  20. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    76,157
    Ratings:
    +37,802
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism

    I suspect it will hardly surprise you which tier of the American economy, top 10% or bottom 90% of the people, the FED has been pumping digital fortunes into ever since the outbreak of the pandemic plunged us into a recession. Yeah, the one that centers on the stock markets.

    Like, that's going to more than marginally help 90% of Americans survive this thing with their will to live, let alone anything else of value to them. I have got friends who left 'dire straights' months ago when their cruise ship sailed out into the open seas. The daughter of a friend I nannied for a few years around her age 10 -- and was to her at the time, the best currently available adult to distract her from yearning too much for her absent father -- is now in her 30's with kids, a departed husband suing for divorce, pandemic-unemployment, and about 10 months behind on her rent.

    The American Dream to her is actually and honestly for her kids to live with her, together as a family, rather than split off into foster homes. In the media, that's called 'the economy is improving and things will be back in a few months to more or less close to normal."

    Meanwhile propagandized humans go about the internet saying in effect, truth doesn't matter.

    It just seems to me overkill cruelty the FED is mostly navigating by Milton Friedman's Libertarian Fantasy of Monetarism.

    It's like sailing a US Naval warship according to the best navigational practices available to Columbus. But it's so deeply ingrained in anyone who grew up learning it, that it's carved in their minds as reality squared. Especially, since it has been used for decades nowadays as a meaningful model and useful tool for the FED to keep unemployment high on its theory that means inflation won't eat into anyone's fixed social security incomes, and -- of course -- the wealth, returns on investments, property, assets, and other 'economic rents' of the rich.

    None of that holds up to empirical demonstration when you get down to hammering at it from enough sides using history as your munitions plant and mathematics to aim your artillery. Monetarism is crumbling, and the bit about unemployment/inflation was the easiest wall to tumble.

    The 'FED' knows that.

    But the FED, you know, doesn't want to take the risk of seeming socialist to the eyes that would panic at the least visible thing they would assume was a sign of that very convenient bogeyman.

    Hence, launch smoke and mirrors suggesting the FED is being careful not to dump as many people out of work as they typically do. It's the new warm and all fuzzy FED these days.

    It's significant to me, that I can find out more about these things in a shorter time than I have ever before been able to by searching YouTube (of all places!) for videos of people on both the right and the left, discussing these things --- simply by looking for Millennials.

    You know, the generation that was mostly in high school the day Lehman Brothers went bankrupt, and in effect, saw their dreams and ambitions for their futures discounted dramatically by events they had no chance whatsoever to control. Today, those of them who somehow took that as a 'wake up to reality and find out why I'll now rent apartments all my life' are arguably the most truthful, and therefore, most often insightful commentators I can find as group. Both right and left.

    Honesty and truth have an uniting effect on people, quite the opposite of propaganda.

    From the viewpoint of a well informed, somewhat bright Millennial on either the right or the left of the aisle, almost all of the posts on RF are lies or just as innocently misleading and damaging as any average lie. Some of them will let you know that, too. At likely best, I'd come across to them as some old guy trying to play catch up to something they started learning about as undergraduates.

    Generations always start out a little better in most ways than they end up as. Unfortunately, the Millennials could so easily pan out to a slim chance that arrived too late. A gesture, basically.

    Kind of like being AOC, I guess, and flipping the bird at a hurricane of propaganda that's determined to force people to see her finger as the telltale warning of the imminent collapse into socialist tyranny that has always been their favorite horror movie -- a movie they love to see again and again and again in every public fart from the left.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...