Homosexuality and religious.

[sayak83]

I would say the action of rape is a wrong action to do

Thank you. But can you also clarify why you would call rape wrong while offering no opinion on homosexual acts? I want to know how you think about it.

 

[PruePhillip]

Yesterday (for me) i was answering about a question relating to baha'i scripture and homosexuality. And i replied something like "I can not tell other what they can and can not do in their belief/faith."

The person who made the question then directly assumed i had to be a homophobic, hateful person against every LGBTQ person.

I just wonder, how is it possible to conclude that a person is homophobic or hateful from a reply like the one i gave?

Just to clerify my true stand on it, i am neutral to what other people do in their relationship sexually, i is not any of my business to critique them.

Why does a person have to be 'hateful' to disbelieve in LGBTQ ?
Is a person hateful for opposing adultery, divorce, rape, abuse, polygamous, pedophilia ??

 

[Spirit of Light]

Dont worry, i knew this thread would be walking in to a minefield and i was right

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thank you. But can you also clarify why you would call rape wrong while offering no opinion on homosexual acts? I want to know how you think about it.

Because if i saw someone raping an other human being i could stop it, but i can not stop homosexuality

 

[KWED]

And if they went around killing witches then so would i.
If they called for the death of witches then so would i.

Would you have a problem if they said that it was ok to kill witches, even if they wouldn't kill one themselves?

As yet i have never met a Chribstian who can change scripture that they don't agree with. Best they can do is accepted the scripture exists and avoid it

No. The best they can do is reject and condemn the scripture. People leave religions every day because they come to realise the violence, intolerance, discrimination, etc they promote.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Why does a person have to be 'hateful' to disbelieve in LGBTQ ?
Is a person hateful for opposing adultery, divorce, rape, abuse, polygamous, pedophilia ??

I dont understand your questions. I dont hold hate toward anyone

 

[ChristineM]

Would you have a problem if they said that it was ok to kill witches, even if they wouldn't kill one themselves?

No. The best they can do is reject and condemn the scripture. People leave religions every day because they come to realise the violence, intolerance, discrimination, etc they promote.

@Seeker of White Light has not said it ok to be homophobic as far as i am aware, what he says is he is neutral on the matter.

Of course some do, and some don't. Some aspects of their religion are more important than individual scriptures. I cannot agree with that but i respect their reasons

 

[KWED]

No i do not blindly follow,

You said that you didn't understand why god is homophobic, but you assumed that his superior wisdom mean that there must be a good reason, even if you didn't understand it.
That is the definition of blindly following scripture.

i use long time to ponder and look at a situation.

Ok, so after all your pondering, why does god think that homosexuality is and evil, immoral aberration that needs purging from the world?
And given this, why don't you have a problem with it when god clearly does?

religious belief is not black and white.

And yet Bahaullah said that you have to believe god's word, without any doubt, even if it seems nonsensical. And what Bahaullah said is god's word.
That sounds pretty black and white.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Ok. So even though you don't think homosexuality is immoral or evil or a sexual aberration that needs purging from the world, you think you are wrong to think this and you accept god's position on the issue as morally superior.

I can see why you feel confused.

I would rather rely on an All Knowing God on these issues than the error prone human mind

How can you "not believe in homosexuality"?

So you don't consider calling homosexuality "a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world" to be hateful bigotry towards homosexuals? Jeez, you are setting the bar pretty high!
What would you call "hateful bigotry towards homosexuals"?

**** me!What is going on? I have quoted Bahai teachings that call homosexuality "evil" immoral" and "a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world". Yet you still claim that there is nothing homophobic in Bahai scripture?
The denial is wrong in this one.

Is this the same Universal House of Justice that women are forbidden from serving on? (Just in case you hadn't twigged, Bahai scripture contains sexual discrimination as well as homophobia)

Just because the Baha’i Writings say something is immoral doesn’t say to hate those who practise these things. All people are considered equals without judgement or condemnation. The Baha’i Writings tell us to look at our own faults not others.

So it’s clear that we are forbidden to condemn others just because the Baha’i Writings teach the opposite. That’s a very high bar. If we do condemn others it says God will curse us.

O SON OF BEING!

How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.(Bahá'u'lláh, Hidden Words, #26 from the Arabic)

O SON OF MAN!

Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness. (Hidden Words, #27 from the Arabic)

 

[Spirit of Light]

You said that you didn't understand why god is homophobic, but you assumed that his superior wisdom mean that there must be a good reason, even if you didn't understand it.
That is the definition of blindly following scripture.

Ok, so after all your pondering, why does god think that homosexuality is and evil, immoral aberration that needs purging from the world?
And given this, why don't you have a problem with it when god clearly does?

And yet Bahaullah said that you have to believe god's word, without any doubt, even if it seems nonsensical. And what Bahaullah said is god's word.
That sounds pretty black and white.

Non of this is what i said. You making up your version of what is said "AGAIN"
By the way, i do not know Gods Thoughts so i do not know what God thinking

 

[loverofhumanity]

Unfortunately, @loverofhumanity doesn't understand the contents of Bahai scripture and belief. They are making it up as they go along.

Have you read the Hidden Words of Baha’u’llah and what He says about condemning others?

 

[Truth in love]

Yesterday (for me) i was answering about a question relating to baha'i scripture and homosexuality. And i replied something like "I can not tell other what they can and can not do in their belief/faith."

The person who made the question then directly assumed i had to be a homophobic, hateful person against every LGBTQ person.

I just wonder, how is it possible to conclude that a person is homophobic or hateful from a reply like the one i gave?

Just to clerify my true stand on it, i am neutral to what other people do in their relationship sexually, i is not any of my business to critique them.

“Agree with me 100% or your a bigot” has infected many here and elsewhere.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Just to clear some things up.

God, Baha’is believe is the Judge of humankind including people and kings. Baha’u’llah wrote condemning some kings and rulers as a Manifestation of God. But Baha’is are forbidden to do that as we are not Prophets just humble followers. So God may condemn certain acts in Baha’u’llah’s Writings but Baha’is must look with a sin covering eye because we do not possess authority from God like a Prophet does.

So no matter how strongly Baha’u’llah might condemn something, that is His Authority as a Manifestation of God while we followers must show tolerance, forbearance and unconditional love without judgement.

God is the sole judge not us followers. We are told to busy ourselves with perfecting ourselves not judging others. It is for God to do that not us.

 

[loverofhumanity]

“Agree with me 100% or your a bigot” has infected many here and elsewhere.

Sadly so.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Just to clear some things up.

God, Baha’is believe is the Judge of humankind including people and kings. Baha’u’llah wrote condemning some kings and rulers as a Manifestation of God. But Baha’is are forbidden to do that as we are not Prophets just humble followers. So God may condemn certain acts in Baha’u’llah’s Writings but Baha’is must look with a sin covering eye because we do not possess authority from God like a Prophet does.

So no matter how strongly Baha’u’llah might condemn something, that is His Authority as a Manifestation of God while we followers must show tolerance, forbearance and unconditional love without judgement.

God is the sole judge not us followers. We are told to busy ourselves with perfecting ourselves not judging others. It is for God to do that not us.

The problem is this as far as I can tell. You don't doubt that there are sins and that your version is the correct understanding.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The problem is this as far as I can tell. You don't doubt that there are sins and that your version is the correct understanding.

If there are sins it is a matter for God. I’m not free from sin just because I believe and I will be judged just like anyone else. When I consider my own life and sins I can but hope that my good outweighs my faults.

 

[KWED]

Oh how you must HATE everything that religious teaching say. How you must hate that others are different than you are...

When a religion teaches that homosexuality is "evil, immoral, aberration that needs purging from the world", yes, I get angry.
I hate that there is still such bigotry and intolerance in the world.
And I hate that people try to defend it.

 

[KWED]

And who are you to tell Baha`is how to believe? Who the HELL do you think you are?

If anyone in RF is judgmental you are the one

Once again, you misunderstand.
@loverofhumanity claimed "To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely against the spirit of Bahá'í Teachings."
Bahai teachings call homosexuality "evil, immoral, aberration that needs purging from the world", so they were clearly and demonstrably wrong.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

When a religion teaches that homosexuality is "evil, immoral, aberration that needs purging from the world", yes, I get angry.
I hate that there is still such bigotry and intolerance in the world.
And I hate that people try to defend it.

Well, not all religions are like that. And hate can also cause problems in some cases if you believe certain versions of psychology and sociology.
I understand what you are saying. I just try to do it differently.
As for the negative words you use I have found that they have nothing to with religion as such.
So in general I try to avoid hate and other forms of negatives in some forms.

 

[KWED]

I know you mean well.

But in all honesty, in this context that quote reads like "...but, but, but,...I'm not racist!! some of my BEST FRIENDS are black!"

Over here in Flanders, that's a "joke" that comes up when we see somebody trying to defend / excuse their blatantly racist behavior.

There is an expression with similar sentiment here... "I love a curry as much as the next man..." usually followed by something implicitly racist towards Indians/Pakistanis.