Homosexuality and religious.

[ChristineM]

Indeed.
And if a Christian said they weren't anti-witch, but it was morally acceptable for call for the death of witches, I would call them out on their hypocrisy.

And if they went around killing witches then so would i.

If they called for the death of witches then so would i.

As yet i have never met a Chribstian who can change scripture that they don't agree with. Best they can do is accepted the scripture exists and avoid it

 

[Spirit of Light]

Ok. So even though you don't think homosexuality is immoral or evil or a sexual aberration that needs purging from the world, you think you are wrong to think this and you accept god's position on the issue as morally superior.

I can see why you feel confused.

I am not confused. I am very aware of my belief on this matter

 

[Spirit of Light]

Ok. So you agree with everything god says, even if you don't understand it.
So you "blindly follow" god on the issue of homosexuality. You simply accept that it is immoral, evil, sexual aberration that needs purging from the world, but you don't know why it is.

No i do not blindly follow, i use long time to ponder and look at a situation.
religious belief is not black and white

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It means I do not judge others for their sexual preference.

Ever?
What if their sexual preference, that which gets their motor running, is pedophelia? Or beastiality? Or necrophilia?

If I was born as a gay man, I would live by the teaching

What teaching, and what do you mean by that?
Does that mean that you believe it is wrong and you would therefor suppress your sexuality?
Or you think it's okay and would simply be fully and openly gay?

It's very difficult to work out what exactly you are saying. It's very vague and littered with ambiguity.

But I am not gay or bisexual.

Neither am I.
But I have no problem saying that it's okay to be both and that is nothing immoral about it.

You seem to insist on stopping short of "I'm neutral" as in "I won't bother them". Which is good off course. But it is rather noticeable that you seem to be going out of your way to refuse simply saying that it's okay to be gay and that there is no moral component involved in being gay or not.

 

[KWED]

You were.

Oh dear. You seem terribly confused.

That someone was me.

So you believe that we should ignore a person's child rape if they have done a load of good stuff.

Seeing the good in others and loving people isn't dangerous nonsense.

It is if it means ignoring crimes.

That is the approach I take with those who identify as gay.

Why do you have to ignore the bad in them? Do you see homosexuality as "bad"?

No one is claiming we should overlook the actions of a pedophile and it is clearly not the Baha'i position.

But that is the implication of Bahaullah's words.
Remember, even if the bad outnumbers the good tenfold, we should judge them on the good, not the bad.
So a man has committed occasional child rape but he has also done huge amounts of good for thousands of people. What should we judge him on?
Serious question. Bahaullah was clear according to the passage you posted.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Since we are on the subject... care to share what the Baha'i religion has to say on the topic of homosexuality?

That has already been done in this thread.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But you are not talking about it. You are avoiding talking about it.

There is no "neutral position" on things like homophobia, sexual discrimination and barbaric punishments.
An attempt to claim a "neutral position" is usually a sign that the person realises they are between an ideological rock and a hard place.
Condemn it and they are essentially condemning god's perfect word.
Support it and they look like a monster to civilised society.

This is like salt on an open wound. lol

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Ever?
What if their sexual preference, that which gets their motor running, is pedophelia? Or beastiality? Or necrophilia?



What teaching, and what do you mean by that?
Does that mean that you believe it is wrong and you would therefor suppress your sexuality?
Or you think it's okay and would simply be fully and openly gay?

It's very difficult to work out what exactly you are saying. It's very vague and littered with ambiguity.


Neither am I.
But I have no problem saying that it's okay to be both and that is nothing immoral about it.

You seem to insist on stopping short of "I'm neutral" as in "I won't bother them". Which is good off course. But it is rather noticeable that you seem to be going out of your way to refuse simply saying that it's okay to be gay and that there is no moral component involved in being gay or not.

I would surpress my feelings and live by the teaching, remember i only speak of my own situation, i dont ask others to do or think like me.
And yes as a Strait man i lived 20 years without sex so i know i could do it again if needed

 

[Spirit of Light]

This is like salt on an open wound. lol

You hit the nail on the head.

Nope he missed it fully, @KWED Dont understand me at all. zero understanding

 

[KWED]

Perhaps this shows that other people's worlds aren't necessarily as black and white as yours, and that not all people are as opinionated as you, regardless of what the scriptures say according to your interpretation.

With all due respect, claiming that there is more than one acceptable response to "homosexuality is a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world" shows a person's true position on the issue. And that position is clearly homophobic.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So the world is divided into those who are positively in favor of homosexual acts as a morally good thing to participate in and those who are homophobic?

No.

It's divided into homophobes on the one hand and people who have no issue with homosexuality, and who thus have no problem saying "it's okay to be gay". Being gay has no moral component in my view. Just like being straight doesn't have a moral component. Primarily because morality is about how your behavior affects others in terms of well-being, and your sexual preference isn't such a behavior.


Having said that, so the world is divided in those two.

Then you have the folks in the middle.
They realize they follow a religion / ideology which is at heart homophobic but they themselves are aware of that and are uncomfortable with it. But they are also uncomfortable with saying that they think their religion is wrong on that issue.

So they'll declare themselves "neutral" and refuse to speak out on it. Instead, you'll just get dodge after dodge and ambiguous / vague statements that keep it all in a grey area.

I suspect that that is exactly what is going on here.

 

[KWED]

There is a vast difference in not believing in homosexuality

How can you "not believe in homosexuality"?

and attacking, demeaning,
So although we don’t believe in homosexuality we abhor all forms of hatred and bigotry against homosexuals.

So you don't consider calling homosexuality "a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world" to be hateful bigotry towards homosexuals? Jeez, you are setting the bar pretty high!
What would you call "hateful bigotry towards homosexuals"?

To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely against the spirit of Bahá'í Teachings.

**** me!What is going on? I have quoted Bahai teachings that call homosexuality "evil" immoral" and "a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world". Yet you still claim that there is nothing homophobic in Bahai scripture?
The denial is strong in this one.

The doors are open for all of humanity to enter the Cause of God, irrespective of their present circumstances; this invitation applies to homosexuals as well as to any others who are engaged in practices contrary to the Bahá'í Teachings. (Universal House of Justice)

Is this the same Universal House of Justice that women are forbidden from serving on? (Just in case you hadn't twigged, Bahai scripture contains sexual discrimination as well as homophobia)

 

[KWED]

So my view and understanding is still within the Baha`i way of practice?

Unfortunately, @loverofhumanity doesn't understand the contents of Bahai scripture and belief. They are making it up as they go along.

 

[Spirit of Light]

How can you "not believe in homosexuality"?

So you don't consider calling homosexuality "a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world" to be hateful bigotry towards homosexuals? Jeez, you are setting the bar pretty high!
What would you call "hateful bigotry towards homosexuals"?

**** me!What is going on? I have quoted Bahai teachings that call homosexuality "evil" immoral" and "a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world". Yet you still claim that there is nothing homophobic in Bahai scripture?
The denial is wrong in this one.

Is this the same Universal House of Justice that women are forbidden from serving on? (Just in case you hadn't twigged, Bahai scripture contains sexual discrimination as well as homophobia)

Oh how you must HATE everything that religious teaching say. How you must hate that others are different than you are...

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I believe in harming nobody is the right way to live

Being gay and engaging in gay sexual relations with mutual consent, causes the same kind of "harm" and pleasure as being straight and having straight sex.

Also, your book calls for the purging of homosexuality from the world (apparently... other posters mentioned it and nobody seems to try and prove them wrong, so I assume it was accurate).

I'ld say that that would be quite harmful to the people who are actually gay.

Sounds to me like you want to believe a lot of things that are at odds with latest religion you decided to follow.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Unfortunately, @loverofhumanity doesn't understand the contents of Bahai scripture and belief. They are making it up as they go along.

And who are you to tell Baha`is how to believe? Who the HELL do you think you are?

If anyone in RF is judgmental you are the one

 

[KWED]

God put down some guidelines for how to live. If God see people doing different, it is between God and that person, not between me judging other human through God

You just completely ignored the whole point of my post.

If you support and promote an ideology, if you call the leader's actions perfect and morally acceptable, then you are jointly responsible for the inevitable outcomes to some degree.

If you voted for Brexit, you can't then claim that the problems caused by Brexit are nothing to do with you.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Being gay and engaging in gay sexual relations with mutual consent, causes the same kind of "harm" and pleasure as being straight and having straight sex.

Also, your book calls for the purging of homosexuality from the world (apparently... other posters mentioned it and nobody seems to try and prove them wrong, so I assume it was accurate).

I'ld say that that would be quite harmful to the people who are actually gay.

Sounds to me like you want to believe a lot of things that are at odds with latest religion you decided to follow.

First of all "it is not MY book" i didnt write it.
Second of all, i take care of my own sexual preferences and dont tell others what to feel, my belief is between me and God.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

As i said in my last reply to you, My own girlfriend is Bisexual, my ex-girlfriend is bisexual, I took part in the pride parade this year in my country, so no i am of not homophobic

I know you mean well.

But in all honesty, in this context that quote reads like "...but, but, but,...I'm not racist!! some of my BEST FRIENDS are black!"

Over here in Flanders, that's a "joke" that comes up when we see somebody trying to defend / excuse their blatantly racist behavior.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You just completely ignored the whole point of my post.

If you support and promote an ideology, if you call the leader's actions perfect and morally acceptable, then you are jointly responsible for the inevitable outcomes to some degree.

If you voted for Brexit, you can't then claim that the problems caused by Brexit are nothing to do with you.

Baha`i is a personal belief i hold, my belief is not to tell you what you can or can not do.
I am non political too so no i dont vote