Homosexuality and religious.

[Trailblazer]

OK, most likely will not find that. I see "sexually repressed" is not a physical issue, by a psychological issue that may contribute to neglect of our physical condition.

No, I didn't think there would be anything about that in the Writings. I agree that it is a psychological issue, not a spiritual issue.

 

[Trailblazer]

I was addressing the physically unhealthy side of the statement. To me sexually repressed is mainly a mental condition, not physical, but it can have physical triggers, chemical imbalances.

So I do not think we would find a passage that says it does not effect the soul, as mental conditions can cross over to aspects of healing.

Sexually repressed could require both spiritual means and physical means to address the issue, as there may be either a chemical imbalance, or a mental issue to address, or both.

This is a big subject. A person is not sexually repressed if they have no sexual desire, that is just plain illogical, and who is to say that sexual desire is necessary or even desirable? Society says so and maybe psychologists say so, but scriptures do not say so, so what do we do?

Feb 23, 2022 — Sexual repression occurs when a person prevents themselves from feeling/experiencing natural sexual urges and desires.
‎What Is Sexual Repression? · ‎Causes · ‎Signs

If a person has no sexual urges, who is to say that they are 'preventing themselves' from having those urges?
I find it offensive for people to say we must have sexual urges. What if we decided we don't want urges and that is the reason we no longer have them? That is no different from an alcoholic who 'decided' to quit drinking and then eventually he has no more 'desire' to drink.

Natural sexual urges and desires? Yes, it is natural for animals to have these urges and desires, but humans more than just animals, we are spiritual beings. To quote Abdu'l-Baha, to act like the beasts of the field is unworthy of the station of man.

 

[dybmh]

That would not prove what you are trying to prove.
This is all purely subjective, so not subject to proof, sorry.

Not true. One can objectively determine unhealthy. Repression is objectively unhealthy. Preventing somthing which is unhealthy is ... healthy. You still haven't refuted this.

It may or may not affect the psychological in a negative way, depends upon the person, but the only way it affects the spiritual is in a positive way.

I'm sorry. when you say "the only way it affects the spiritual ... " what is the "it" here?

I'd much rather be repressed than obsessed.
Sexual obsession is one of those ailments which affects both psychological and spiritual.

Irrelevent. I care about you and your opinion, but it's just not productive to change the subject to obsession.

Not if your claim is that there is always crossover. I admitted there is sometimes crossover.

I never claimed that. Never said always.

 

[Trailblazer]

Self says it all.

and nothing more needs to be said.

 

[dybmh]

This is a big subject. A person is not sexually repressed if they have no sexual desire, that is just plain illogical, and who is to say that sexual desire is necessary or even desirable? Society says so and maybe psychologists say so, but scriptures do not say so, so what do we do?

If science disagrees with scripture, then Baha'i doctrine is to go with science? Or is that just the rule for other religions?

 

[Trailblazer]

Not true. One can objectively determine unhealthy. Repression is objectively unhealthy. Preventing somthing which is unhealthy is ... healthy. You still haven't refuted this.

Repression might not always be healthy but there is nothing unhealthy about suppression.
Please see my post to Tony above. #5722

I'm sorry. when you say "the only way it affects the spiritual ... " what is the "it" here?

"It" is suppression of sexual desire. The only way it affects the spiritual is in a positive way, Imo.

Suppression is the conscious intentional exclusion from consciousness of a thought or feeling.

Repression is the exclusion of distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings from the conscious mind, often involving sexual or aggressive urges or painful childhood memories.

Irrelevent. I care about you and your opinion, but it's just not productive to change the subject to obsession.

Okay, let's please drop that. I tends to be a tangential thinker so I sometimes go off on a tangent.

 

[Trailblazer]

If science disagrees with scripture, then Baha'i doctrine is to go with science? Or is that just the rule for other religions?

Science does not say that sexual desire is 'necessary or desirable.' Science merely states that sexual desire exists. It exists in most people but not in all people at all stages of their lives. Science does not say that we should take hormones or Viagra to 'keep going' after our bodies change and our hormones drop. That is a personal decision.

 

[dybmh]

Repression might not always be healthy but there is nothing unhealthy about suppression.
Please see my post to Tony above. #5722

One repressed unhealthy person refutes the Baha'i writing. Suppression is irrelevent.

"It" is suppression of sexual desire. The only way it affects the spiritual is in a positive way, Imo.

su·per·sti·tion

a widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice based on such a belief.

 

[dybmh]

Science does not say that sexual desire is 'necessary or desirable.' Science merely states that sexual desire exists. It exists in most people but not in all people at all stages of their lives. Science does not say that we should take hormones or Viagra to 'keep going' after our bodies change and our hormones drop. That is a personal decision.

Science says that repression is dangerous and unhealthy.

 

[samtonga43]

I find it offensive for people to say we must have sexual urges.

If no one had any sexual urges there would be no children.
God made sexual feelings pleasurable for a reason.

 

[Trailblazer]

If no one had any sexual urges there would be no children.
God made sexual feelings pleasurable for a reason.

That is very true, and I think I already said that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Science says that repression is dangerous and unhealthy.

Maybe that is true, but if there is no sexual desire, there is nothing to repress.

 

[dybmh]

Maybe that is true, but if there is no sexual desire, there is nothing to repress.

Great, we at least agree that sexual repression can be unhealthy, at least physically or psychologically.

 

[Trailblazer]

One repressed unhealthy person refutes the Baha'i writing. Suppression is irrelevent.

Sorry, I am not going to play this game, so you will have to find another Baha'i to play with.

 

[Trailblazer]

Great, we at least agree that sexual repression can be unhealthy, at least physically or psychologically.

And so? There are also other kinds of psychological repression that can be unhealthy, what about those?
Why such a focus on sexuality, as if nothing else even exists? This borders on an obsession.

 

[dybmh]

And so? There are also other kinds of psychological repression that can be unhealthy, what about those?
Why such a focus on sexuality, as if nothing else even exists? This borders on an obsession.

Because Baha'i law is unhealthy related to sex. Where it's unhealthy in other areas, we can discuss that too as they come up.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because Baha'i law is unhealthy related to sex. Where it's unhealthy in other areas, we can discuss that too as they come up.

I believe that Baha'i Laws related to sex are very healthy.
Baha'i Law is healthy in other areas, we can discuss that too as they come up.

 

[CG Didymus]

Because Baha'i law is unhealthy related to sex. Where it's unhealthy in other areas, we can discuss that too as they come up.

And speaking of laws for and against gays getting married...

For anyone wondering what marriage means to one of the best-known gay men in the U.S., Chasten Buttigieg has an answer.

“My marriage has filled this house with so much love it makes me want to be a better husband, father, and citizen every day,” the husband of Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg wrote in a Tuesday post on Medium. “It’s called me to something bigger than myself while recognizing that my kids are now the most important thing in life, and I’d do anything to protect them. Our family and our union push me to make sure we leave our kids a country and a world they can thrive in so that they, too, can enjoy all of the love and light and happiness that Pete and I have known simply by falling in love with one another.”

The piece was published a few hours before the U.S. Senate passed the Respect for Marriage Act, which will write marriage equality into federal law so that it will be established even if the Supreme Court overturns its 2015 marriage equality ruling.
​

So, another instance where the Baha'is can only say, "But God says it's wrong. And we know that for sure, because our prophet said so."

 

[Riders]

As I recall when I was going to the Zen Temple in East Dallas, the directors were conservative. However they did not believe in having politics or anything controversial spoken about at the temple, so there was no debate.

So Gays and lesbians were welcome.