Homosexuality and religious.

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I have a strong dislike or disinclination towards any sexual behavior that is not between husband and wife. Why focus on homosexuals? The Baha'i Writings don't single out homosexuals.

So? If you have such a strong dislike, then behave accordingly -- yourself. But of what possible interest is it to you what somebody else is doing with the consenting person(s) of their choice? Why do you care? Why do you need to mention your "strong distaste?" I don't happen to like kale, no matter how healthy it's supposed to be, but until this moment, I've never felt the impulse to mention the fact to anyone.

 

[dybmh]

I have a strong dislike or disinclination towards any sexual behavior that is not between husband and wife. Why focus on homosexuals? The Baha'i Writings don't single out homosexuals.

Why focus on it? Because the UHJ has compiled a list of quotations from Baha'u'llah and Shogi Effendi that they consider speaking about homosexuality. One of them labels Homosexuality as an "evil passion". You agreed with this statement.

Claiming that someone has an evil passion is derogatory and it reveals a dislike and disinclination towards the gay person if they deem their sexuality as part of their identity.

 

[Vinayaka]

So? If you have such a strong dislike, then behave accordingly -- yourself. But of what possible interest is it to you what somebody else is doing with the consenting person(s) of their choice? Why do you care? Why do you need to mention your "strong distaste?" I don't happen to like kale, no matter how healthy it's supposed to be, but until this moment, I've never felt the impulse to mention the fact to anyone.

I love kale. Not so much for the taste, but for the frost hardiness. I can have fresh garden vegetables in November (occasionally) in Edmonton.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That is true, they don't have the opportunity to be married as Baha'is and have sex with the same gender.

I don't consider that unjust because I believe that God is just.

Does anyone on this thread besides me realize that there is more to life than having sex?
I mean 1356 posts about sex. Pathetic, if you ask me.

Yes, there's lots and lots about life that isn't about having sex.

On the other hand, there's lots and lots about life that isn't about eating -- but if you don't allow somebody to do it, they will die.

 

[idea]

There can be heads of the household who are gay

Equally yoked, none leader or follower, each self-reliant, each works, each cleans, decisions from both equally seems best to me.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Equally yoked, none leader or follower, each self-reliant, each works, each cleans, decisions from both equally seems best to me.

That seems best to me no matter who is in the relationship. Loving one another as true equals, willing to support one another however is needed, in whatever circumstances (men can nurse as well as women!) seems like a pretty good idea to me.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

the homophobic religions. Isn't that what we're all doing here? Isn't that what I'm doing? Theists spouting homophobic religious beliefs or promoting religions are homophobia are on the wrong side of this aspect of the culture war between religion and humanism.

I see people are making their own choices to have Faith in God, or not to have Faith in God.

Those that choose a Faith, will then have the choice to abide by the given laws, in full knowledge that it is not predudices behind those laws. Those laws are given as the basic fundamental requirements for a strong foundation required for a progressive family and community life.

Baha'u'llah offered.

"..Think not that We have revealed unto you a mere code of laws. Nay, rather, We have unsealed the choice Wine with the fingers of might and power. To this beareth witness that which the Pen of Revelation hath revealed. Meditate upon this, O men of insight!.."

So, this is not so easy to discuss in this age, as for the last 70 or so years, this time has seen a significant shift away from God given advice. I see that is more the issue.

I was born in an age that makes these laws much easier to accept, I now also see the wisdom in those laws, and the problems society faces now those laws are neglected.

I see as the future unfolds, there will be more study into all this, in the end I see it will be determined that bringing up a child with its mother and father, in a stable loving relationship, will lesson the complexity we have created with all the other alternatives. I see those alternatives has created many psychological issues.

Mostly we just have to agree to disagree and abide by the laws of the Land.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

So? If you have such a strong dislike, then behave accordingly -- yourself. But of what possible interest is it to you what somebody else is doing with the consenting person(s) of their choice? Why do you care? Why do you need to mention your "strong distaste?" I don't happen to like kale, no matter how healthy it's supposed to be, but until this moment, I've never felt the impulse to mention the fact to anyone.

Who said I cared what other people do? I don't care. I only care about my own behavior.
I only mentioned it because I was responding to a post, in order to point out that I have no particular dislike of homosexuals, but rather I have a strong dislike or disinclination towards any sexual behavior that is not between husband and wife.

 

[CG Didymus]

No one is stopping you from having the opinion that some minority group should not have the agenda of living their life with the partner of their choice, making a life, raising a family and growing old together.

And that lifestyle is evil and sinful. And they know it is, because, as usual, their Scriptures said so.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why focus on it? Because the UHJ has compiled a list of quotations from Baha'u'llah and Shogi Effendi that they consider speaking about homosexuality. One of them labels Homosexuality as an "evil passion". You agreed with this statement.

@KWED cherry-picked the passages in the Baha'i Writings that refer to homosexuality. There are a lot of other passages that refer to sexuality in general and heterosexual behavior we are not supposed to engage in. There are also Writings that talk about masturbation, wanna see those?

Yes, the UHJ has compiled a list of quotations from Baha'u'llah and Shoghi Effendi that they consider speaking about homosexuality for a webpage about homosexuality.

Homosexuality

@KWED was getting his quotes from a webpage that is ABOUT homosexuality, so what would you expect to find on such a webpage?

 

[CG Didymus]

The "different" opinion IS homophobic, you can't decry homosexuality and claim you're not homophobic, that's absurd. You may want to believe you're not being homophobic, but you certainly are, as your religion clearly is.

So, what is their claim? That they are not homophobic? They just hate homosexuality, because God says it is wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

Claiming that someone has an evil passion is derogatory and it reveals a dislike and disinclination towards the gay person if they deem their sexuality as part of their identity.

Baha'u'llah did not single out homosexual behaviors, He was referring to all evil passions.

Ye are forbidden to commit adultery, sodomy and lechery. Avoid them, O concourse of the faithful. By the righteousness of God! Ye have been called into being to purge the world from the defilement of evil passions. This is what the Lord of all mankind hath enjoined upon you, could ye but perceive it. He who relateth himself to the All-Merciful and committeth satanic deeds, verily he is not of Me. Unto this beareth witness every atom, pebble, tree and fruit, and beyond them this ever-proclaiming, truthful and trustworthy Tongue. (From a previously untranslated Tablet) [2]
Homosexuality

A heterosexual might also deem their sexuality as part of their identity, yet their behavior is being called an evil passion. Why not speak out to protect them? Why this need to protect homosexuals? Nobody is singling them out. In fact, they have more protection in society nowadays and are more widely accepted than adulterous heterosexuals. In society, it is not 'bad' to be gay anymore but it is still bad to be a man who cheated on his wife.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, there's lots and lots about life that isn't about having sex.

On the other hand, there's lots and lots about life that isn't about eating -- but if you don't allow somebody to do it, they will die.

That analogy won't work because people can live without sex but they cannot live without food.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That analogy won't work because people can live without sex but they cannot live without food.

Humanity, on the other hand, cannot live without sex. We stop doing that, this is the last generation of humans.

 

[Trailblazer]

Humanity, on the other hand, cannot live without sex. We stop doing that, this is the last generation of humans.

No, humanity cannot live without having any procreational sex, but they can live without having any recreational sex.

Most sex is for pleasure. If people would simply admit that maybe we could move on.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

No, humanity cannot live without having any procreational sex, but they can live without having any recreational sex.

Most sex is for pleasure. If people would simply admit that maybe we could move on.

Do you see where you are going? Mortifying the few joys that we have for religious dogma? Humans can live live while beating themselves with a whip every day, or wearing hair shirts, because they "hate their sinful natures." But is that really LIVING? Or are you, like so many religious, not focused so much on living as on trying not to have to put up with the inevitablitly of death?

 

[YoursTrue]

So presumably you go along with everything the Bible says, like the stoning to death of rebellious sons, killing people who work on the sabbath, slavery, etc?

Christians are no longer under the Law of Moses, but follow Jesus and recognize what it means. Christians have been released from the Law, but that does not mean we can do bad things.
Romans 7:6 "But now we have been released from the Law, because we have died to that which restrained us, in order that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit and not in the old sense by the written code."

 

[YoursTrue]

Why you believe in homophobic claims is not relevant to the fact you're being homophobic by expressing them.



Which is deeply homophobic, quoting it doesn't change the fact it contains homophobic texts.



You just disrespected gay people above by saying you don't believe homosexuality is ok, which is both homophobic, and violates this doctrinal claim.

Let me rephrase. If homosexuality is ok for you and you think it's ok for others that's for you to decide. I have decided it's not ok for me. But if you do -- hey, that's up to you and I certainly won't attempt to stop you. But if I were a minister, I wouldn't marry two homosexuals. And I wouldn't attend a wedding of two homosexuals. Similarly, you make your choices and I respect that.

 

[dybmh]

@KWED cherry-picked the passages in the Baha'i Writings that refer to homosexuality. There are a lot of other passages that refer to sexuality in general and heterosexual behavior we are not supposed to engage in. There are also Writings that talk about masturbation, wanna see those?

I'd be interested in seeing some examples from the Writings regarding masturbation, especially if it is described as evil, satanic, or unnatural.

Yes, the UHJ has compiled a list of quotations from Baha'u'llah and Shoghi Effendi that they consider speaking about homosexuality for a webpage about homosexuality.

Homosexuality

@KWED was getting his quotes from a webpage that is ABOUT homosexuality, so what would you expect to find on such a webpage?

That doesn't diminish the impact of what's written or the reticence of Baha'i to see the issue from another point of view.

 

[CG Didymus]

Those that choose a Faith, will then have the choice to abide by the given laws, in full knowledge that it is not predudices behind those laws. Those laws are given as the basic fundamental requirements for a strong foundation required for a progressive family and community life.

The Bible says we should stone homosexuals and adulterers. Should those that believe in the Bible abide by those laws and enforce them? I'm sure you would say, "no". And your reason? Maybe because those laws don't fit in with modern society. But then? Do Baha'i laws fit in? Do we really want to tell people with homosexual tendencies they are sick in the head? And I don't think you tell, what was it your son, that he's sick in the head and needs to get help. Or do you? Or do you love him just the way he is? Even though your religious beliefs say his lifestyle is wrong and evil.