Homosexuality and religious.

[ppp]

You stated that a person who disagrees with homosexuality is actually against ...

Try to finish one topic before skittering off to another.You asked why you cannot have a dissenting opinion. Do you understand that your question was twaddle? The answer was that no one is stopping you.

 

[ppp]

Thank you.

For what?

 

[ppp]

No platitudes just facts.

All platitudes. You merely assert that what you say are facts with no effort to demonstrate any connection to reality. Merely parroting what some guy wrote.

General admonitions to be nice do not obviate specific language that shames, shuns or marginalizes.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

All platitudes. You merely assert that what you say are facts with no effort to demonstrate any connection to reality. Merely parroting what some guy wrote.

General admonitions to be nice do not obviate specific language that shames, shuns or marginalizes.

Well, the problem with claims not connected to reality, then where are the claims?
I am tired off this meta-reality of connected to and not connected to.
You are in reality, so how can you know of claims not connected to reality? How do you do that?

 

[KWED]

does anyone tolerate behaviors they disagree with? I dont think so.

Of course they do. It's how a civilised society works.

And i think you are stretching it to claim mental illness for those who don't tolerate certain sexual acts.

I wasn't being serious. I was parodying the religious beliefs that maintain that homosexuality is a mental illness that can be cured.

Im pretty sure there are some sexual acts that you don't tolerate.

Not if they are between consenting adults.
And why should anyone else care anyway? If you don't like the thought of a man putting his penis in another man's anus or mouth (or three of them doing both), then stop thinking about.
Simples!

 

[KWED]

well it certainly hasnt changed my viewpoint

What? You still hold the opinion that black people are inferior to white people? And that women shouldn't be allowed to vote?
Yikes!

 

[KWED]

Isn't it better to just accept that people are different?

Yes!
Finally you are getting it.
So you now accept there is nothing wrong or evil or immoral or shameful or unnatural about homosexuality. It is just different to you.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes!
Finally you are getting it.
So you now accept there is nothing wrong or evil or immoral or shameful or unnatural about homosexuality. It is just different to you.

What behaviours are covered by your acceptance?

 

[KWED]

Im sorry i am no mislead by that twisted logic.

It was your logic - but I agree that is is twisted.

God has given a man and a woman the ability to have a child together.

Not all of them

Every child deserves to know its mother and father.

Or its fathers, or its mothers. Or its mother or father if they are a single parent.
But what about orphans? What's god doing about them?

Breeding children in testtubes and injecting them into foreign bodies was never intended to be a good way for any human to be brought into the world.

Have you seen a live birth? And you think that is a "good way" to come into the world?

 

[King Phenomenon]

When people present and attempt to justify those beliefs on a public debate forum, they are implicitly asking people to get involved in their business.
It's really not a difficult concept to grasp - although a few people on here clearly do have difficulty with it.

they do it so people like you can learn to mind their own business.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

they do it so people like you can learn to mind their own business.

That is not possible in practice unless you live totally alone. But I don't and you don't, because we are both here.

 

[KWED]

do you not think that homosexuality harms people?

It doesn't. Fact.

The people practicing it are harmed by it emotionally. If it was not harmful, there would not be so many suicides. We always hear of famous celebrities for example who have lived secretly as a homosexual for years, hiding their homosexuality and suffering depression and having suicidal thoughts. Think about it. They didnt become depressed and suicidal because everyone was persecuting them because of being homosexual.
Their own inner conscience was condemning them, forcing them into hiding for years. Lying about themselves, lying to themselves, lying to their families. The pain they felt as a 'closet gay' was all coming from within themselves.

Ye gods! And I thought the prize for the least aware poster had already been take.
Homosexuals often take their own live becaeu they cannot come out. Because of the intolerance and persecution they would face. Because of the damage from having to repress their true self for years. The strain of acting the role of a complete stranger.

Homosexuality is not good for us emotionally and spiritually.

Wrong. It is the repression of homosexuality, the prejudice, bigotry and hate that is not good for homosexuals. Gays have lives that are just as normal, happy, fulfilling, boring, frustrating, loving, contented, etc as heterosexuals if they live in a society where they are treated the same.
You really don't have a clue what you are on about.

This is why God does not want people to practice it. He does love all of us and he does not want to see us hurt ourselves.

So why does he create people as homosexuals?

 

[KWED]

those rules applied to the nation of Israel, no one else.

And those rules were taken away at the approriate time. They were for a very specific purpose and time.

Ah, so you cherry pick the Bible to suit your own prejudice.
Fair enough. I suspected as much.

 

[King Phenomenon]

That is not possible in practice unless you live totally alone. But I don't and you don't, because we are both here.

semantics

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

semantics

Yeah, so stop posting and leave us alone. Learn to mind your own business and leave us alone. It works both ways. You have your understanding as semantics, so leave us out of it.
Or learn that it works in both directions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The thing is, you are here, on a religious debate forum. You are a regular poster, so you clearly want to present and defend your beliefs, so I will continue to respond. If you are unable to address the points and questions I raise, then those beliefs are clearly not as sound as you would like to think.

That’s fine but you know our views on some topics where we can’t agree I feel it’s best just to accept to agree to disagree because the discussion is going nowhere. But you are always welcome to share your views.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That’s fine but you know our views on some topics where we can’t agree I feel it’s best just to accept to agree to disagree because the discussion is going nowhere. But you are always welcome to share your views.

Yes, I get it. But if you claim an universal God, you have to owe up to that. No matter how much you hide behind, that it is just your individual belief, because it is not individual, if you claim it is universal.

 

[KWED]

If i have a phobia, i have an 'excessive extreme, irrational, fear or panic reaction about a situation, living creature, place or object.' according to one definition.

Still not sure if you are being dishonest or just ignorant.

so is it 'homosexuality' or is it 'gay people'?
because the two are entirely different.

It is a common ploy by homophobes to try and separate the two inseparable events.
You may as well say that "being German" and "German people" are two entirely different concepts.

Yes, pretty much it is because God said.

So what is the reasoning behind god's hatred of gays and homosexuality?

You are speaking to christians who have accepted Gods laws. If God said it was ok, then there would not be any problem with it. But there has always been a problem with it even among nations who do not have the bible because it is universally unacceptable. Universal laws stem from within mankinds conscience. They are like the natural laws that tell us murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, rape is wrong. These are universal because when God created us, he designed us in a very particular way. If we step outside of that design, our conscience starts to condemn us and this leads to an internal conflict.

No one can change that because its the way we've been designed.

You are wrong again (quelle surprise!)
Historical evidence shows that homosexuality was generally accepted by cultures worldwide, until the Abrahamic religions got involved. Your homophobia is basically caused by your religion. Studies show that non-religious people display less intolerance to homosexual people, across the board.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You presented some "arguments" to support your position, on a religious debate forum.
I responded to them in detail, highlighting the flaws.
Your response was to ignore it all and just claim certainty of belief.
This suggests the same blind following of dogma that the other Bahais on here exhibit.
I've not really encountered Bahais in online debate forums before joining this one, and it is interesting that they seem to be the most dogmatically entranced of all the faiths.

The problem as I see it is that I believe my source is an All Knowing God and I trust in His Knowledge because I believe He created us and so knows what’s best for us. But because you don’t accept any All Knowing entity you label my belief as dogma. So who decides what is moral or immoral, right or wrong, good or bad? You? Me? The government? Popular opinion? Which of your sources can you claim to possess perfect knowledge? If you can’t and you cannot, then how can you dogmatically assert your views are correct as they all originate from error prone humans?

My argument is I have ascertained that Baha’u’llah is a Manifestation of God and believe He speaks the truth regardless of whether people accept it or not. As you reject Baha’u’llah there is no point in arguing the point because it will always end in a stalemate so I suggest you go your way and I go mine as the sticking point for you is there is no God and Baha’u’llah was just an ordinary human.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The problem as I see it is that I believe my source is an All Knowing God and I trust in His Knowledge because I believe He created us and so knows what’s best for us. But because you don’t accept any All Knowing entity you label my belief as dogma. So who decides what is moral or immoral, right or wrong, good or bad? You? Me? The government? Popular opinion? Which of your sources can you claim to possess perfect knowledge? If you can’t and you cannot, then how can you dogmatically assert your views are correct as they all originate from error prone humans?

My argument is I have ascertained that Baha’u’llah is a Manifestation of God so He speaks the truth regardless of whether people like it or not. As you reject Baha’u’llah there is no point in arguing the point because it will always end in a stalemate so I suggest you go your way and I go mine as the sticking point for you is there is no God and Baha’u’llah was just an ordinary human.

Yeah, that is your universal claim. I learned to do God differently than you. Yet you decide for us all, which God there is.