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Featured Homosexuality and religious.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Seeker of White Light, Sep 21, 2022.

  1. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Veteran Member
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    I
    ts because of insecurity I believe.
    We are absolutely 100% sure that homosexuality is immoral and unacceptable because God has confirmed this with those who believe in Him. Those going out of their way to bully and intimidate those of us who see it for what it really is are very insecure because if they were so sure of themselves they wouldn’t care less if we considered it good or bad.


    They want every person on earth to tell them they are on the right path while we do not need others to support our beliefs. We stand strong and firm while they are weak and insecure so feel the desperate need to bully others to agree with them and if we don’t then we are ‘infidels’ or homophobic. How laughable! Lol
     
  2. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Veteran Member
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    Thank you.
     
  3. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    So the issue isn't Bahai laws, it is your own personal ideas of morality and decency then.
    In which case, are you personally ok with homosexuality and homosexual sex and only support homophobia because you are told to. Or do you personally support homophobia, irrespective of Bahai laws.

    IOW, if you were not a Bahai, would you still think homosexuality was an evil passion, shameful aberration, immoral, against nature, etc?
     
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  4. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Veteran Member
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    No platitudes just facts. Religion teaches us to be virtuous and of upright character. There are thousands of texts which support this fact. To make such false accusations belies one’s complete ignorance.

    This is only a tiny part of what religion teaches. It calls us to behave humanely and care for others.


    Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity. Be worthy of the trust of thy neighbor, and look upon him with a bright and friendly face. Be a treasure to the poor, an admonisher to the rich, an answerer of the cry of the needy, a preserver of the sanctity of thy pledge. Be fair in thy judgment, and guarded in thy speech. Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men. Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful, a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression. Let integrity and uprightness distinguish all thine acts. Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive. Be eyes to the blind, and a guiding light unto the feet of the erring. Be an ornament to the countenance of truth, a crown to the brow of fidelity, a pillar of the temple of righteousness, a breath of life to the body of mankind, an ensign of the hosts of justice, a luminary above the horizon of virtue, a dew to the soil of the human heart, an ark on the ocean of knowledge, a sun in the heaven of bounty, a gem on the diadem of wisdom, a shining light in the firmament of thy generation, a fruit upon the tree of humility.

    Baha’u’llah (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, pp 285)
     
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  5. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    Been looking through My Big Book of Fallacies again, I see. :tearsofjoy:
    No, it is not a false equivalence.
    You claimed that Bahaism encourages giving up things that feel good. There was no mention of what those things had to be. If you are now claiming that it is only certain things (or one specific thing) that should be given up and doesn't apply to anything else, but not presenting a rational argument for it, then that is the fallacy of special pleading.

    In his argument, your man Dale said that sex should be only for procreation. You cites that as your position.

    Why is informed, consensual, adult sex between people in a stable, loving relationship "positively harmful to man and society"?
    (This is where you say "cuz god sez", and off we go on the circular logic merry-go-round again)

    Of course it does. It's there in black and white in Bahai texts. It tells gays to suppress their sex impulse through conversion therapy (which is illegal in many countries)

    Same thing.

    There you go. Unless you are married to someone of the opposite sex, you must suppress your sex impulses.

    Basically "You can choose anything on the menu, except dessert".
     
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  6. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    So just to confirm, one last time.
    You accept that Bahai teachings contain homophobic language. Correct?

    Aaand, there we have it. Now you are denying that Bahai teachings contain homophobic language.
    You couldn't make it up!

    So you claim that all non-Bahais exhibit nasty, antisocial, even damaging behavior?

    Well, Bahais have been trying to justify the homophobia in their texts for over 50 pages now.
    But your attitude is "Yes, Bahaism contains homophobia. So what?" Really?

    So you accept that the homophobic language in Bahai teachings can harm people.
     
  7. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    Again, not a "false equivalence". (The key to calling out fallacies is understanding what they are and how to apply them. This seems to be another concept you are unable to grasp)
    Homophobia, racism and sexism are all very much equivalent concepts. They are all intolerant, discriminatory, prejudicial thoughts and deeds based on dislike of an innate part of a person.
    In fact, it would be hard to think of a better example of three equivalent concepts than homophobia racism and sexism.
     
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  8. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    They don't present any arguments as to why it is evil, immoral, shameful, etc, just that it is.
    However, it does say that it is "against nature" and that is demonstrably, scientifically wrong.
    It also says that it can be "cured" with prayer, doctors, etc. Not only is this scientifically wrong and known to cause harm, but is illegal in many countries.

    So at least we know that Bahai writings encourage unscientific beliefs and illegal activities!
    Ouch!
     
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  9. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    That makes no sense. There are supposed to be two conflicting positions there. You just repeated the same position.
    As I predicted, you didn't understand the argument at all.
    And someone upvoted you! Bless :tearsofjoy:
     
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  10. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    When people present and attempt to justify those beliefs on a public debate forum, they are implicitly asking people to get involved in their business.
    It's really not a difficult concept to grasp - although a few people on here clearly do have difficulty with it.
     
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  11. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    More mealy-mouthed excuses from people attempting to rationalise the homophobia in their religious/personal beliefs.

    People are labelled "homophobic" if they express sentiments that are intolerant, prejudicial or discriminatory towards homosexuality or homosexuals.
    People who have no opinion on the issue are not homophobes. Even people who say they could never have gay sex because they aren't sexually attracted to the same sex are not homophobes.
    If you believe there is something innately "wrong" or "immoral" or "perverted" or "unnatural" about homosexuality, then you are a homophobe.
    But don't despair! You can be cured of that psychological illness, with education and open-mindedness. ;)
     
  12. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    But you go far beyond that. You believe that homosexuality is an evil passion, shameful aberrance, immoral, handicap, against nature, something that faithful Bahais should purge from the world.

    I'm not sexually attracted to men either. But I also believe that homosexuality is natural, moral, acceptable, in fact no different to heterosexuality. Homosexuals should be considered no different to heterosexuals in every aspect of life. The distinction should be as meaningless as being left or right-handed.
    Do you see the difference in our positions?
     
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  13. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    Not according to some ideologies, including your own faith.

    Of course you can hold a different opinion. But you must also expect to have that opinion examined.
    Not all opinions are acceptable.
    Remember when it was acceptable to hold the opinion that black people were inferior to white people? Or that women shouldn't be allowed to vote?
    Well, the opinion that homosexuality is "immoral, shameful, unnatural", etc is part of that group of narrow-minded, uninformed, bigotry.

    Hope this helped.
     
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  15. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    The thing is, you are here, on a religious debate forum. You are a regular poster, so you clearly want to present and defend your beliefs, so I will continue to respond. If you are unable to address the points and questions I raise, then those beliefs are clearly not as sound as you would like to think.
     
  16. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    You presented some "arguments" to support your position, on a religious debate forum.
    I responded to them in detail, highlighting the flaws.
    Your response was to ignore it all and just claim certainty of belief.
    This suggests the same blind following of dogma that the other Bahais on here exhibit.
    I've not really encountered Bahais in online debate forums before joining this one, and it is interesting that they seem to be the most dogmatically entranced of all the faiths.
     
  17. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    What do you mean "opposed to the act of homosexuality"?
    Do you mean that you won't do it yourself, or that no one should be allowed to do it?

    But you aren't! You cant separate homosexuality and homosexuals, and Bahaism is absolutely and vociferously against homosexuality. Bahai teachings contain overtly homophobic language.

    It's like saying "I'm fine with Bahais but I won't tolerate them worshiping god and praising Bahaullah. Their beliefs are shameful, immoral, perverted and against nature".

    No he isn't. A loving father would accept their child's homosexuality.
     
  18. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    If you hold the opinion that homosexuality is an evil, immoral, unnatural, shameful aberration that should be purged from the world, then you are a homophobe. By definition.
    Just as if you hold the opinion that black people are genetically inferior, lazy, and prone to criminality, then you are a racist. By definition.
    Just as if you hold the opinion that women should stay at home and mind the family, not get ideas above their station, obey their husband, are naturally a bit dim, then you are a sexist. By definition.

    It has nothing to do with simply holding a "different" opinion.
    Hope this helped.
     
  19. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane My own religion

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    Well, I have read so many books by scientists about this, that I have an overall category for that: Normal behaviour versus abnormal behaviour. When you then read scientific books about that, you learn that has nothing to do with religion in particular. The problem of how normal as a normative claim can result in harm is not just about religion, it is also about religion.
     
  20. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

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    Yeah, because that is textbook "indoctrination".
     
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