Historicity of Jesus

[IndigoChild5559]

I don't have one.

I suspect you have some sort of opinion, but for whatever reason, simply choose not to share. Be well.

 

[lukethethird]

I suspect you have some sort of opinion, but for whatever reason, simply choose not to share. Be well.

What am I supposed to have an opinion on, which story is correct?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What am I supposed to have an opinion on, which story is correct?

If you think the two stories contradict, that would be an example of an opinion.

 

[lukethethird]

If you think the two stories contradict, that would be an example of an opinion.

No, that would be an example of a contradiction.

 

[blü 2]

What am I supposed to have an opinion on, which story is correct?

There's really only one story, Mark's. The question is how to interpret ἐκβάλλειν ekballein from ἐκβάλλω ekballō which is the verb in all four versions and generally translated as 'drove out'. Its meaning is throw out, throw away, cast out, cast away, expel, banish, reject ...

How does one man expel a body of traders and their clients? Is going ape sufficient, or is a weapon ─ whip, baton, &c ─ implied?

 

[lukethethird]

There's really only one story, Mark's. The question is how to interpret ἐκβάλλειν ekballein from ἐκβάλλω ekballō which is the verb in all four versions and generally translated as 'drove out'. Its meaning is throw out, throw away, cast out, cast away, expel, banish, reject ...

How does one man expel a body of traders and their clients? Is going ape sufficient, or is a weapon ─ whip, baton, &c ─ implied?

I get all that ,however Luke omits the violence, the overturning of the tables and seats and returns everyday to teach.

 

[lukethethird]

OK. So you did not know, that's ok.
I've never asked the question and just got the straight answer..... never. Honest.

Jesus and the disciples went sightseeing (in today's vernacular). True!

Yes, that's in Marks gospel.

 

[blü 2]

I get all that ,however Luke omits the violence, the overturning of the tables and seats and returns everyday to teach.

Mark is the first gospel written, so Mark's is the original version ─ that is, we know no earlier version of the story. The author of Luke, a decade later, is using the gospel of Mark as his template, so, in close to the same words, is synoptically telling Mark's story. Same for the author of Matthew. The author of John is also using Mark as his frame, generally much more loosely, but here has borrowed Mark's tale and expanded it to his taste.

 

[rational experiences]

When men as thinkers theists say in claim what do I own.

Self presence one self only a human.

Women say the same.

A human is one form human.

We however experience by two bodies of one human.

We only own one self itself. Human.

When you say let's theory a past. First two origin humans are deceased.

They had sex before they died created beyond their bodies that die.

Why we teach humans one day you die.

Some humans own a problem thinking upon that information.

Groups.

Group mentality ancient.

If I live with a group in group support I have less chance of dying. One of a thinking human concept. Survival.

Group cult mentality warped irradiated drugged chemical brain minds imbalanced then believed inaccurate fed back self idealism.

Told self by that thought the group in human life won't let you die.

Human consciousness therefore became a taught topic about irradiation fallout effect that man in science inherited by group science choice.

As in group mentality somehow you think you own everything and are personally safe. As the one experience owned the same living DNA one selves all in the same moment.

The first human family group.

What scientific group chosen evil caused. Mind dysfunction. Inability to use or reason truth.

As tables the human science told status about pre existing forms are not human owned. We're human changed. We're human manipulated.

One human separated from first men agreed same DNA group mentality taught you what one man chose for himself by group mentality.

Totally ignored as one self relevance just one human. One human can therefore tell all humans why they are wrong.

 

[lukethethird]

Mark is the first gospel written, so Mark's is the original version ─ that is, we know no earlier version of the story. The author of Luke, a decade later, is using the gospel of Mark as his template, so, in close to the same words, is synoptically telling Mark's story. Same for the author of Matthew. The author of John is also using Mark as his frame, generally much more loosely, but here has borrowed Mark's tale and expanded it to his taste.

Yes, all perhaps true, however, Matthew and Luke sometimes omit lines, or change or add lines when relying on Mark, to suite their own separate agendas. They 'correct' and tweak Marks story the way they see fit. When reading a developing theology and mythology or a blend thereof, there is no correct version. To begin with Mark is first but he's writing fiction, that much is obvious, so I don't have an opinion as to which is the correct version of a given fiction.

 

[rational experiences]

Human life no sex thesis first humans dead.

Human lived adult experience recorded voice and image just a memory. Recorded by heavens as a state remains after death.

Now imagine out of space owner controller cause of any God reaction.

A great big asteroid hits earth bammo.....
Earth gone heavens gone. Where is your heavenly eternal life storyteller?

A human baby. The storyteller today thinking. Reads yet thinks about thinking in a book written. Does a human book written by a human thinking own status to a human just thinking?

Baby adult says when I die. Science says your body turns into a rotting corpse. As correct scientific advice.

Do you find that reasoning non acceptable as you live?

Of course you do. Yet it is a human truth.

Science says if I study sacrificed damaged DNA I can work out a Jesus formula for a machine reaction.

A man as a living human was standing inside of UFO caused earth gas mass tunnel surrounded by cloud gas.

As a theory man not a man just a spirit as a reaction inside my machine tunnel of metal. Transported self body by UFO effect came to ground. Man Went inside.

Humans have had the same experience. Phenomena of the atmosphere.

Yet to get cloud reaction said man a human a theist is the reaction. Lied. No human was created inside UFO cloud reaction.

Phenomena a living man got attacked was witnessed by other humans. Disappears in effect.

The scientists a man envisioned first. Thought upon a life memory only today of a living man standing inside by memory a metal machine. As if he was machine invented as a self man life.

By a reaction cloud. Proving he lied. Proving he is self science possessed as thinking by visionary advice is first.

The whole time false claim a UFO did it. Created a man's life. The UFO attacked a man's life.

Science of man first thought upon was the pyramid mountain tip conversion in a vision.

Truly sick minded. UFO effect combusted mountain tip mass.

Tried to remove self by same theory.

Sex. The only reason a mutated baby is born. No sex no mutated baby to look at by a theist. Was never a science answer to a fake science opinion. Strings to the event.

The study it happened to a living man was stated so no theist a human could pretend otherwise.

Why science asked did a real man endure the attack.

As his thesis Jesus he says is about clouds.

Why he argued science.

A man never owned a name. Human is one name only his answer. The only name.

Biologists said one bio life living body beyond a monkey. So you could not claim a fake cloud man creation by a UFO. All living tissues blood bone present.

Clouds came out of a mountain top. Volcano. No image. Rolling smoking burning gases.

Reactions own no image as each mass gets destroyed.

Clouds seen in daylight sky. Clouds seen in clear immaculate gases.

Humans are not cloud God Satan angels in other words.

 

[oldbadger]

This is one of the reasons that some think Jesus was not his day's equivalent of an Orthodox Jew. If he was, he wouldn't have gone sightseeing in Jerusalem when he was in his 30s - he should have already been familiar with the city by that time, even if he was from the Galilee, having made pilgrimage to the city at least once a year, if not more (it was difficult making pilgrimage 3 times + Yom Kippur every year). As he appears to be unfamiliar with the city, it seems as though this was one of his very first times there.

Bingo!
So Galilean (and Northern) peasants didn't get to the Temple quite as often as assumed by many historians.
I've often wondered whether Saul's travels to the North were about ensuring Temple donations were made, that kind of thing.

I've often asked Christians that question, and I don't think that many have noticed that half verse in Mark....too busy bathing in the raptures of G-John, maybe?

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, that's in Marks gospel.

The other gospel authors did collect very useful bits of info, but they were never there, didn't see it themselves......... I expect that Mark did witness some of the incidents, although I reckon that much of his gospel was based upon the memoirs of Cephas.

 

[rational experiences]

Bingo!
So Galilean (and Northern) peasants didn't get to the Temple quite as often as assumed by many historians.
I've often wondered whether Saul's travels to the North were about ensuring Temple donations were made, that kind of thing.

I've often asked Christians that question, and I don't think that many have noticed that half verse in Mark....too busy bathing in the raptures of G-John, maybe?

Your machine is built. You say you know what reactions it should cause. And it doesn't.

Yet men built and designed the machine as human theists. What does your theory machine have to do with the bible?

 

[PearlSeeker]

This is one of the reasons that some think Jesus was not his day's equivalent of an Orthodox Jew. If he was, he wouldn't have gone sightseeing in Jerusalem when he was in his 30s - he should have already been familiar with the city by that time, even if he was from the Galilee, having made pilgrimage to the city at least once a year, if not more (it was difficult making pilgrimage 3 times + Yom Kippur every year). As he appears to be unfamiliar with the city, it seems as though this was one of his very first times there.

He was there before. Never heard about how parents lost the Jesus boy?

 

[PearlSeeker]

How does one man expel a body of traders and their clients? Is going ape sufficient, or is a weapon ─ whip, baton, &c ─ implied?

A whip is used to scare (not necessarily to hit). It makes a loud noise.

 

[Harel13]

He was there before. Never heard about how parents lost the Jesus boy?

I did write "one of his first times."

Have another explanation for the sightseeing?

 

[PearlSeeker]

I did write "one of his first times."

Have another explanation for the sightseeing?

One of his first times with apostles (during his public mission).
John 2:13
Luke 4:42-43

 

[Harel13]

One of his first times with apostles (during his public mission).

And? I mean, how does that explain the sightseeing?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I get all that ,however Luke omits the violence, the overturning of the tables and seats and returns everyday to teach.

Luke does NOT omit the violence. It says he "drove them out." That's not asking them politely.