Have western leaders been in denial?

[Shadow Wolf]

They can do what they like in Islamic countries.

But they can't practice their religion here? Being a university employee, from my experience, the Muslim students from around the Middle East are more friendly, more tidy, and far more polite than the average American student. One had some culture shock, but that's to be expected. The only time religion was even remotely up was one night when I entered the study room they was using for their evening prayers to give them a heads up we were about to close, and I wrongly thought they had finished when they were stood back up, but apparently there have a bit more to finish. It was a mistake, oh well. They were actually very respectful of our ways and gave no one any grief. Overall, it's not different than neo-Pagans, or Christians, or Hindus, or whatever. Most people under most circumstances are not violent, and unless their thinking has been warped will generally seek, at minimum, a mutually relation of tolerance rather than violence. As for Muslims who are Western, I've shared an "outsiders" bond with a few of them. Yes, they are aware I'm not a believer, but they have been of the believe that there is no compulsion of religion and that Allah will call to people when the time has come.
The problem isn't really so much the followers as it is their books frequently and freely justify some of the most atrocious and horrible violence ever committed in human history if it's all true. From the Tanakh through the Quran, there is extreme violence, severe oppression and repression, and mandatory death over a ton of different petty and trivial things, many reasons, such as worshiping other gods, that most of the world today just no longer adheres to. But if an American Christian wants to bomb an abortion clinic or when an Iraqi Muslim blow themselves up, they can find justification and motivation in their books, and that is what the heart of the problem is.

 

[Notanumber]

It looks like we have had a close shave.

If I believed in God, I would have to believe that Donald Trump is our God given saviour.

 

[Sakeenah]

Islamists can do whatever they like in Islamic countries providing it does not affect us Infidels.

We were talking about muslims that live in the west and peacefully practice their religion. I don't know what 'islamists' in muslim countries have to do with this discussion.

 

[Notanumber]

We were talking about muslims that live in the west and peacefully practice their religion. I don't know what 'islamists' in muslim countries have to do with this discussion.

Any Islamist living in the west is a potential danger to any non-Islamist that does not want to be controlled by Islam.

That is a fact.

 

[psychoslice]

We were talking about muslims that live in the west and peacefully practice their religion. I don't know what 'islamists' in muslim countries have to do with this discussion.

But can they really practice their beliefs without hurting the freedom of that country ??

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Christianity is just as nasty in its books

The Bible is much nastier than the Qur'an.

 

[psychoslice]

The Bible is much nastier than the Qur'an.

Yes I agree, but the difference is that the bible believing don't practice the horrible things in their scriptures, where as the Muslims do, they are far behind the eight-ball.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Bible is much nastier than the Qur'an.

Personally, if anything, I consider the Quran a slight improvement because we find an actual environmental ethic in it, that those who care for animals will be blessed, and that animals who are slaughtered are to be treated humanely.

 

[Notanumber]

The Bible is much nastier than the Qur'an.

The Quran uses the nasty parts of the Bible as its starting point and builds on it.

 

[Sakeenah]

Any Islamist living in the west is a potential danger to any non-Islamist that does not want to be controlled by Islam.

That is a fact.

So you believe every muslim in the west even if they are peaceful is a potential danger..paranoid much?

 

[Sakeenah]

But can they really practice their beliefs without hurting the freedom of that country ??

Yes we muslims can practice our religion without hurting the freedom of a country..is this suprising to you?

There are milions of muslims in the west that practice their religion and are law-abiding citizens. A lot of muslims contribute to society,there are muslim doctors,lawyers,teachers,police men and women etc.
So I don't know where you get the idea that a muslim that practices their faith hurts the freedom of a country.

 

[Notanumber]

So you believe every muslim in the west even if they are peaceful is a potential danger..paranoid much?

Believe it or not, it is what Islam teaches them and that is a fact, which no one can deny.

Whether they are paranoid or not.

 

[Notanumber]

Yes we muslims can practice our religion without hurting the freedom of a country..is this suprising to you?

There are milions of muslims in the west that practice their religion and are law-abiding citizens. A lot of muslims contribute to society,there are muslim doctors,lawyers,teachers,police men and women etc.
So I don't know where you get the idea that a muslim that practices their faith hurts the freedom of a country.

This is what your religion instructs you to do.

Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

 

[Sakeenah]

Believe it or not, it is what Islam teaches them and that is a fact, which no one can deny.

Whether they are paranoid or not.

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. The person that beliefs that every peaceful muslim is a potential danger is imo paranoid

 

[Sakeenah]

This is what your religion instructs you to do.

Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

So when a muslim denounces violence and promotes tolerance and understanding you accuse them of deception and lying. people who see every muslim as a threat have a lot in common with extremist muslims,they see every non muslim as a threat.

 

[Kirran]

@Sakeenah, there's really no winning with this person. They say that any speaker or whatever who is denouncing Islam is correct by definition, see any Muslim expressing intolerance and violence as representative of Islam and see any Muslim espousing tolerance and good will as lying (or committing taqiya). This latter is very useful, because it means anything a Muslim says that doesn't fit this narrative can be thrown out as deception.

It's like the mother of all conspiracy theories.

 

[Notanumber]

So when a muslim denounces violence and promotes tolerance and understanding you accuse them of deception and lying. people who see every muslim as a thread have a lot in common with extremist muslims,they see every non muslim as a threat.

The difference is that I don’t follow a vicious ideology.

 

[Notanumber]

It looks like we have had a close shave.

If I believed in God, I would have to believe that Donald Trump is our God given saviour.

There is more.

Hillary Clinton emails show how Sultan of Brunei treated Bill 'like part of his family' | Daily Mail Online

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The difference is that I don’t follow a vicious ideology.

That's bull. Like when Christians insist that Satanists must be violent because of their definition of Satan and Satanism. A completely different interpretation of the character those Satanists believe for themselves. Judge a belief based on what the believer actually believes. Not how you interpret their scripture. Your interpretation has no bearing on their belief. Otherwise you're just putting words in their mouth and then condemning them for the falsehood.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Quran uses the nasty parts of the Bible as its starting point and builds on it.

If you want to get down to it, the violent records way more acts violence than the Quran, and to break it down further the Bible is way more into aggressive violence whereas the Quran mentions more acts of defensive violence. Both condone practices, however, that would be considered immoral, unethical, and even illegal throughout most of the world today.

This is what your religion instructs you to do.

Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam

Since you obviously have no idea what that concept means, it's a principle that allows a Muslim to preserve their life if admitting they are Muslim will put their life and well being in jeopardy. This is actually far less "death cult" than Christianity, where denial of Christ is a very serious offense regardless of the reasons. Which I suppose makes it another slight improvement over Christianity.