Gun debate poll and privatizing the school system.

[Truth in love]

Yes, you have the right to join a well regulated militia and bear the arms (be in military service) and own guns subject to those rules.

You did you teach college, so I’ll assume you can read. The 2nd amendment is not limited to militias “the right of the people” is the right of the people not just those in a militia.

 

[Polymath257]

You did you teach college, so I’ll assume you can read. The 2nd amendment is not limited to militias “the right of the people” is the right of the people not just those in a militia.

And what, precisely, is the connection between a well regulated militia being necessary and the right to keep and bear arms? Read the actual Amendment.

Remember that *bearing arms* was being in a military unit. So you have the right to bear arms: to be in a military unit. As such, you have the right to keep the arms you have for that purpose.

 

[Polymath257]

I stick with my rights don’t need your permission. Feel free to cite actual law to the contrary, but all I hear from you is you don’t like me being free to exercise my rights without jumping your hoops.

Do you realize that the laws have changed drastically over the last 50 years? That it was recognized that those with criminal backgrounds shouldn't own guns until pretty recently? That gun ownership has never been an absolute right any more than free speech or the necessity of warrants for arrest?

 

[Truth in love]

And what, precisely, is the connection between a well regulated militia being necessary and the right to keep and bear arms? Read the actual Amendment.

Remember that *bearing arms* was being in a military unit. So you have the right to bear arms: to be in a military unit. As such, you have the right to keep the arms you have for that purpose.

Not what it says and not what the supreme court says it means. My right is not limited to how you wish to see it. That’s the thing about rights they function even others don’t agree

Do you realize that the laws have changed drastically over the last 50 years? That it was recognized that those with criminal backgrounds shouldn't own guns until pretty recently? That gun ownership has never been an absolute right any more than free speech or the necessity of warrants for arrest?

I’m totally fine with bans on WMD’s. But I don’t have to jump tons if hoops to speak my mind. I don’t need a permit to pray.

 

[Nimos]

Well, this seems like a rather specialized statistic, so much so as to render it useless for discussion. The cartel violence in Mexico, for example, is far more severe and deadly than in the United States.

If we took individual states - such as Maine, New Hampshire, Idaho - and compared their crime rates with that of other developed countries, we might see different results. But how useful would such statistics be?

Its about school shootings.

If Maine and Idaho etc. have different rules than other states it might be relevant to compare the difference in the amount of school shootings.

Well, there have been significant public protests over various issues in recent years, and I agree about the corruption in America. There are many people who want to change things in America, but they all have their own particular ideas on how to do that. From left to right, up and down the spectrum, there are people who are clamoring for change.

I consider myself to be one of many living examples of this process in action. I would like to see massive changes from top to bottom in this country. We need to tear everything down and rebuild the system from scratch. I've argued as much in various threads here, as you may have noticed. But you may have also noticed how many people argue and make a fuss whenever proposals for change are made. Look at how many people complain and criticize other people's ideas. Look at how many people refuse to listen or engage in public discussion in good faith.

In terms of corruption, politics, and how they apply in the debate over gun control is that such discussions often take place at a time of emotional duress. That's what makes people more vulnerable to manipulation by unscrupulous politicians and pundits.

Im not saying that it will be easy, things rarely is in politics, because there are many people (politicians) with their own agendas. But it is remarkable that the US have so many school shootings compared to everyone else, and I don't think any other country have a gun law as you have in the US, so it seems like an obvious place to start making some changes. The rough part is convincing others about it, no disagreement there. But at least in my opinion the first step is to get rid of the lobbyists or at least much better rules, because they are not speaking for the public interests, but are speaking for the various organizations and their agendas.

In 2021, the total lobbying spending in the United States amounted to 3.73 billion U.S. dollars. This is an increase from the 3.53 billion U.S. dollars spent on lobbying in 2020.

Companies and organizations don't throw this amount of money after something if they don't also benefit from it one way or another. And its not just an issue in the US.

 

[sun rise]

Be the million a year we sacrifice in the baby butcher death cult it seems small.

Compared to the death cult where the US refuses to provide adequate health care etc for all as a human right?

 

[sun rise]

Compared to the death cult where the US refuses to provide adequate health care etc for all as a human right?

Along with the gun cult that causes so many deaths as well.

 

[Truth in love]

Compared to the death cult where the US refuses to provide adequate health care etc for all as a human right?

Having someone else pay your bills is not a right.

 

[Truth in love]

Along with the gun cult that causes so many deaths as well.

Many millions of guns on America and thousands of people die each year the vast majority by suicide or while committing crimes and you blame the gun?

 

[Wildswanderer]

New Arming teachers is a joke. If the Uvalde cops were too afraid of an AR-15 (and they're wearing body armor) to confront the shooter, which do they expect a teacher to do?

The same teachers who got in front of their students when the maniac was killing them? And the cops were probably not afraid but were ordered to wait.

 

[Orbit]

The same teachers who got in front of their students when the maniac was killing them? And the cops were probably not afraid but were ordered to wait.

Ordered by whom? Other cops?

 

[sun rise]

Many millions of guns on America and thousands of people die each year the vast majority by suicide or while committing crimes and you blame the gun?

I blame the gun where semi-automatic guns are used to kill many people. I blame the gun where someone uses one in the heat of emotion. But mental health is also an issue and a sane country would work on fixing both.

 

[sun rise]

Having someone else pay your bills is not a right.

I'm interested not in selfish rights but in upholding the Truth. I'm not a Christian but these words are to me TRUTH and part of putting the Second Greatest Commandment into practice.. So go ahead and insist on your right not to spend to minister to the sick. I put my faith and trust in ministering to the sick etc including having part of my income spent to minister unto them.

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

 

[Polymath257]

Not what it says and not what the supreme court says it means. My right is not limited to how you wish to see it. That’s the thing about rights they function even others don’t agree

And Supreme court decisions can change. And the current decision was very recent and contrary to long tradition. So it is quite possible it will change.

I’m totally fine with bans on WMD’s. But I don’t have to jump tons if hoops to speak my mind. I don’t need a permit to pray.

Of course. But being trained and having an evaluation done is not 'tons of hoops'; it is reasonable precautions.

And for example, there are laws against libel, and against speech that poses imminent incitement to riot. And while you may not need a permit to pray, you *do* need a permit to build a church (or mosque or synagogue).

No right is absolute.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Ordered by whom? Other cops?

By a superior who made a very bad call.

 

[Polymath257]

Many millions of guns on America and thousands of people die each year the vast majority by suicide or while committing crimes and you blame the gun?

And the success of those suicide attempts is vastly increased if they use a gun as opposed to a knife.

Yes, the gun *greatly* increases the risks. Of that there can be no doubt.

But can we at least agree that guns should not be in the hands of those who have a history of violence, have orders of protection against them, or are depressed?

 

[Truth in love]

I blame the gun where semi-automatic guns are used to kill many people. I blame the gun where someone uses one in the heat of emotion. But mental health is also an issue and a sane country would work on fixing both.

Our mental health situation is very bad. However blaming an inanimate object for the choices people make is not helpful.

 

[Truth in love]

I'm interested not in selfish rights but in upholding the Truth. I'm not a Christian but these words are to me TRUTH and part of putting the Second Greatest Commandment into practice.. So go ahead and insist on your right not to spend to minister to the sick. I put my faith and trust in ministering to the sick etc including having part of my income spent to minister unto them.

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

I’m a huge fan of giving to the poor. It is a religious mandate in my faith and many others. The federal government is expressly forbidden from running a religion.
As a professional social worker I’ve seen how the systems work and don’t. The gov systems are a nightmare. Help is needed is mass. It should be done in the legal and moral way.

 

[Truth in love]

And Supreme court decisions can change. And the current decision was very recent and contrary to long tradition. So it is quite possible it will change.

Placing the power to exercise a right at the non objective control of a group that is highly biased against the right is unacceptable. If the 2nd amendment got 1/10th the respect made rights got the pro gun folks would call it good.


Of course. But being trained and having an evaluation done is not 'tons of hoops'; it is reasonable precautions.

And for example, there are laws against libel, and against speech that poses imminent incitement to riot. And while you may not need a permit to pray, you *do* need a permit to build a church (or mosque or synagogue).

No right is absolute.

 

[sun rise]

I’m a huge fan of giving to the poor. It is a religious mandate in my faith and many others. The federal government is expressly forbidden from running a religion.
As a professional social worker I’ve seen how the systems work and don’t. The gov systems are a nightmare. Help is needed is mass. It should be done in the legal and moral way.

The current system in the US is a mess. Every other developed nation and many others besides have a better health system than we do.

And I'd prefer that it be voluntary but it can't be given the system is structured for to maximize greed. Today the only possible counterbalance is some mandated system. Personally I like the Swiss system but am open to considering whatever will give everyone access to affordable health care.