GOP nightmare is here: Sanders Is Budget Chair

[icehorse]

And you believe a secret cabal controls elections & policy?
Wowzer!

Again, not in good faith. I'm responding directly to what you said. This accusation of yours seems to be based on.. ? Certainly nothing that I've said

 

[Revoltingest]

Again, not in good faith. I'm responding directly to what you said. This accusation of yours seems to be based on.. ? Certainly nothing that I've said

You've not even tried to demonstrate your claim either.
You've just been double standarding me.
Some advice...
Stop trying to make it about me, & I'll stop responding in kind.

 

[icehorse]

You've not even tried to demonstrate your claim either.
You've just been double standarding me.
Some advice...
Stop trying to make it about me, & I'll stop responding in kind.

It hasn't been about you, it's been about your claims.

 

[Revoltingest]

It hasn't been about you, it's been about your claims.

Claims you've objected to, but not actually countered.
It's OK to disagree...just don't hit me with faux claims of fallacies.
We have different explanations for income disparity.
Meh.

 

[Heyo]

I disagree. If the voters wanted tax reform,
they'd make it an issue, & politicians would
fall all over themselves to make political
hay from it.

I have a very low opinion on the intelligence of US people but you are downright cynical. You think people want endless war, no healthcare, no gun control and that the rich pay less taxes than the average Joe? And there is a cabal of all pollsters who constantly report the opposite?

 

[icehorse]

Claims you've objected to, but not actually countered.
It's OK to disagree...just don't hit me with faux claims of fallacies.
We have different explanations for income disparity.
Meh.

i'm done on this thread - no good faith here, imo

 

[Revoltingest]

I have a very low opinion on the intelligence of US people but you are downright cynical. You think people want endless war, no healthcare, no gun control and that the rich pay less taxes than the average Joe? And there is a cabal of all pollsters who constantly report the opposite?

1) People re-elect people who start & continue wars,
eg, #43, #44. And note that Hillary voted for war in
the Senate, yet won the most votes for Prez.
2) We have gun control. People only argue about
what kind & how much more to impose.
3) In Trump's bill, he at least increased taxation on
mansion ownership (yearly property taxes over $10k).
4) Pollsters typically ask about single issues. But the
voter picks a candidate who represents multiple issues.
Moreover, they vote more for the candidate as a person
than for the candidate's record in office. This is where
my cynicism feels most at home.

 

[sun rise]

Like forgive a trillion in student debt
and give free tuition from there on?

I had free tuition in graduate school. It was covered by first a research fellowship and then by being a teaching assistant.

I don't have an issue with extending that to more people.

 

[Revoltingest]

i'm done on this thread - no good faith here, imo

Your posts were disagreeable without supporting
your disagreement. And you keep accusing me
of bad faith. I'm up for discussion, but if you play
such games with me, I'm inclined to respond in kind.
Look at the post #47 to this one...you'll see how
much better it is for those who try to converse.
Be nice...or at least civil. You'll get better results.

 

[Heyo]

4) Pollsters typically ask about single issues. But the
voter picks a candidate who represents multiple issues.
Moreover, they vote more for the candidate as a person
than for the candidate's record in office. This is where
my cynicism feels most at home.

Yes, but that is what I find incomprehensible. Some of these issues are decades old. Shouldn't there be a majority for those? Why are there only hawks in congress? Why are the gun laws so lax when a majority say they want stricter laws? You can point at a single measure in Trumps tax reform, overall it benefits the super rich more than the average man. Why is that so?
I'm always for applying Hanlon's Razor but that much stupidity is hard to swallow.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, but that is what I find incomprehensible. Some of these issues are decades old. Shouldn't there be a majority for those? Why are there only hawks in congress? Why are the gun laws so lax when a majority say they want stricter laws? You can point at a single measure in Trumps tax reform, overall it benefits the super rich more than the average man. Why is that so?
I'm always for applying Hanlon's Razor but that much stupidity is hard to swallow.

1) There are some peaceniks in Congress. Votes for war
weren't unanimous. But voters' love or hate for war is fickle.
Remember how protests against Bush's wars evaporated
when Obama assumed both the presidency & the wars.

2) The tax changes were a mix of ups & downs. I'm not
approving of it...just noting it wasn't all beer & pretzels
for the wealthy.
BTW, I recall reading that Trump wanted even harsher
tax treatment for mansions, but settled for the $10k
limit on SALT deductions in order to sell the package.

 

[icehorse]

Your posts were disagreeable without supporting
your disagreement. And you keep accusing me
of bad faith. I'm up for discussion, but if you play
such games with me, I'm inclined to respond in kind.
Look at the post #47 to this one...you'll see how
much better it is for those who try to converse.
Be nice...or at least civil. You'll get better results.

we're not going to make any progress in this thread - i feel you're rewriting history instead of taking stock of your own poorly constructed posts. it's not worth it to go back and reassemble the history here.

too bad, interesting topic.

 

[Revoltingest]

we're not going to make any progress in this thread - i feel you're rewriting history instead of taking stock of your own poorly constructed posts. it's not worth it to go back and reassemble the history here.

too bad, interesting topic.

Calm down, guy. You started off with the "bad
faith" barb. That never turns out well.
Tis sometimes best to recognize disagreement,
& just leave it at that...before getting hostile

 

[Heyo]

1) There are some peaceniks in Congress. Votes for war
weren't unanimous. But voters' love or hate for war is fickle.
Remember how protests against Bush's wars evaporated
when Obama assumed both the presidency & the wars.

2) The tax changes were a mix of ups & downs. I'm not
approving of it...just noting it wasn't all beer & pretzels
for the wealthy.
BTW, I recall reading that Trump wanted even harsher
tax treatment for mansions, but settled for the $10k
limit on SALT deductions in order to sell the package.

Let's see if we can agree on some facts first.

1. The wealth and pay gap are opening since the 80s.
2. The US has been at constant war or involved in conflicts since ... almost forever.
3. The US has a healthcare system that is not on par with the rest of the western world, neither in coverage throughout the citizens nor in efficiency.
4. Getting a college education is much more expensive in the US than in other countries of the western world.
5. The US has a much higher rate of gun violence than the rest of the western world.

6. Polled for any of the above single issues, people want it changed (in the direction of being more like "socialist" countries (EU).

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's see if we can agree on some facts first.
1. The wealth and pay gap are opening since the 80s.

I don't know the time frame.

2. The US has been at constant war or involved in conflicts since ... almost forever.

They're intermittent.
Some justified. Some not.

3. The US has a healthcare system that is not on par with the rest of the western world, neither in coverage throughout the citizens nor in efficiency.

Better for some people than others.
Better for some countries than others.

4. Getting a college education is much more expensive in the US than in other countries of the western world.
5. The US has a much higher rate of gun violence than the rest of the western world.

Depends upon the country.
We're far better than Brazil.

6. Polled for any of the above single issues, people want it changed (in the direction of being more like "socialist" countries (EU).

The EU has no socialist countries.

Back to the voters, they have choices, & they
pick whom they pick, with the records they
have in office.
Also, consider that different voters take different
positions on those issues. So we have Pubs vs
Dems, libs vs cons, & libertarians vs everyone else.
This results in compromises that no one likes,
hence conflict with polls.

 

[Heyo]

I don't know the time frame.

They're intermittent.
Some justified. Some not.

Better for some people than others.
Better for some countries than others.

Depends upon the country.
We're far better than Brazil.

The EU has no socialist countries.

Back to the voters, they have choices, & they
pick whom they pick, with the records they
have in office.
Also, consider that different voters take different
positions on those issues. So we have Pubs vs
Dems, libs vs cons, & libertarians vs everyone else.
This results in compromises that no one likes,
hence conflict with polls.

I guess you are right, there is no conspiracy, even though the alternative is quite unsettling.

 

[Revoltingest]

I guess you are right, there is no conspiracy, even though the alternative is quite unsettling.

I'm not right...just offering opinions.

 

[icehorse]

Calm down, guy. You started off with the "bad
faith" barb. That never turns out well.
Tis sometimes best to recognize disagreement,
& just leave it at that...before getting hostile

you make what, 50 posts a day? and yet your implication is that you never make a mistake? gotcha!

and, IMO YOU are the one who started off with the bad faith arguments. What would you have me do, turn the other cheek?

 

[Revoltingest]

you make what, 50 posts a day? and yet your implication is that you never make a mistake?

You are free to disagree, but it's the height of hubris to
presume that if I we have different opinions, it's due to
my mistake or bad faith. I advise less sanctimony &
certainty. Nobody gots "The Truth" in such matters.
Just opinions. We may each have our own.

What would you have me do, turn the other cheek?

Be open minded, civil, & conversational.
Stop thinking you've been smited.

 

[Audie]

I had free tuition in graduate school. It was covered by first a research fellowship and then by being a teaching assistant.

I don't have an issue with extending that to more people.

I was a TA myself. Its work.
Free to everyone is a different matter.