Good "Islam = Religion of Peace" Debate

[YmirGF]

hi.

Allah who is all merciful says in the holy quran, chapter 60, verses 8 and 9:
Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of [your] religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes,
that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.
Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of [your] religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up [others] in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.
the message of islam is mercy and peace for all creations and you can find many books about islam's mercy in the website
al-islam.org

So why are Muslims not the most sought after negotiators on the planet if they have this natural aptitude for mercy and peace? Why is it that the Muslim community is not sought out for advice on virtually any topic?

 

[LuisDantas]

We Baha'is all believe in the Quran and even more strongly than Muslims so why aren't we terrorists or going around killing people?

Mostly because you have learned from other religious references, if I had to guess.

 

[YmirGF]

Mostly because you have learned from other religious references, if I had to guess.

Because Bahai leaders used Islam to buttress their own claims. Plus, it's not like early Bahai followers could have rejected Islamic doctrine and lived to tell about it. Even gushingly supporting the Qur'an did not help them much in the early years.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm curious how Baha'is treat insults against Muhammad/Islam. Is it seen as an attack that is worthy of a physical counter-attack? There have been polls of American Muslims in very recent times, arguably some of the world's most lenient, tolerant, progressive, etc. Muslims - showing 33% see it as such. That percentage simply climbs when you go to regions of the world where it is a Muslim majority, without the same degree of outside influence concerning freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

If Baha'is were polled from any part of the world, what percentage do you think would agree that insulting Bahá’u’lláh (or Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, etc.) is worthy of a counter-attack? I'm betting it would always be a very insignificant minority. This is a key difference, without political or economic struggles to use as an excuse for why it exists.

Thank you for your questions. Firstly contention and strife is forbidden by law in Bahaullah's Most Holy Book..

"He that wisheth to promote the Cause of the one true God, let him promote it through his pen and tongue, rather than have recourse to sword or violence."

"It is incumbent upon all men, each according to his ability, to refute the arguments of those that have attacked the Faith of God."

“Ye have been forbidden in the Book of God to engage in contention and conflict, to strike another, or to commit similar acts whereby hearts and souls may be saddened.”

Excerpt From: Bahá'u'lláh. “The Kitab-i-Aqdas.”

"The religion of God is for love and unity; make it not the cause of enmity or dissension."

"If any man were to arise to defend, in his writings, the Cause of God against its assailants, such a man, however inconsiderable his share, shall be so honored in the world to come that the Concourse on high would envy his glory. "

"Help him to see and recognize the truth, without esteeming yourself to be, in the least, superior to him, or to be possessed of greater endowments."

From Abdul-Baha His Son

"Beware lest ye harm any soul, or make any heart to sorrow; lest ye wound any man with your words, be he known to you or a stranger, be he friend or foe.

"Beware, beware, lest any of you seek vengeance, even against one who is thirsting for your blood. Beware, beware, lest ye offend the feelings of another, even though he be an evil-doer, and he wish you ill."

"In accordance with the divine teachings in this glorious dispensation we should not belittle anyone and call him ignorant, saying: "You know not, but I know".

So we are to defend the Prophets and Teachers in writing but courteous and kind writing not inflammatory. A poll should reflect zero agreement on any physical counter attack as it could result in our immediate suspension from our religion.

If I wounded you with my words you can report me to Baha'i authorities and I would most definitely be reminded if not reprimanded that we are only permitted to treat others kindly no matter what they say or even insult Baha'u'llah or Muhammad or Buddha. At best we can courteously defend Them with our words.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Mostly because you have learned from other religious references, if I had to guess.

Our interpretation of the Quran comes from a different source.

 

[columbus]

We Baha'is all believe in the Quran and even more strongly than Muslims so why aren't we terrorists or going around killing people?

Because there are not enough Bahai in any one place to do it.
Tom

 

[loverofhumanity]

The point is that we simply do not see the evidence that Muslims are a "guided" group that is vastly superior to other human animals. That painful reality tends to blow the idea that Islam is the religion of God right out of the water. In theory, if the claim was true, the Muslim community, en masse, would be clearly superior by many yardsticks than all alternatives. Muslims claim this closeness to God and yet we see so little evidence to back up this claim. There is almost no area, whatsoever, where the Muslim community is sought out for guidance due to their illustrious wisdom.

I see a beautiful people and culture. Others may wish to dwell on the negative but I find overwhelming good in both Islam and Muslims. They are very courteous and hospitable people with beautiful traditions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Because there are not enough Bahai in any one place to do it.
Tom

It is hard coded in our Writings that we are forbidden to commit acts of violence.

This is just one of hundreds of similar teachings forbidding violence

“Ye have been forbidden in the Book of God to engage in contention and conflict, to strike another, or to commit similar acts whereby hearts and souls may be saddened.”

Excerpt From: Bahá'u'lláh. “The Kitab-i-Aqdas.”

 

[columbus]

It is hard coded in our Writings that we are forbidden to commit acts of violence.

All Muslims and Christians say that.
Tom

 

[loverofhumanity]

You would think a being worthy of being called a god would have implored his believers to try to understand why they found themselves in adverse conditions, why others attacked them and what they could possibly do to peacefully ward off such attacks. Counteracting belligerence with more belligerence is hardly noble.

It was a case of freedom of belief vs genocide. To protect their rights they had no choice but to defend themselves. No matter where the Muslims went, the Meccans pursued them with intent of genocide and complete extermination of every man, woman and child.

 

[YmirGF]

I see a beautiful people and culture. Others may wish to dwell on the negative but I find overwhelming good in both Islam and Muslims. They are very courteous and hospitable people with beautiful traditions.

What culture and peoples isn't though?

 

[loverofhumanity]

All Muslims and Christians say that.
Tom

Time will prove that the Baha'i Faith will bring unity and peace and an end to war, division and hostilities.

 

[columbus]

Time will prove that the Baha'i Faith will bring unity and peace and an end to war, division and hostilities.

Unless it doesn't.
All Abrahamic religions claim this. They are also consistently proven wrong. Once they get enough power they start the oppression, claiming it is for the good of others.
This is not a new concept.
Tom

 

[loverofhumanity]

What culture and peoples isn't though?

Yes I agree fully.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Unless it doesn't.
All Abrahamic religions claim this. They are also consistently proven wrong. Once they get enough power they start the oppression, claiming it is for the good of others.
This is not a new concept.
Tom

So far so good.

How are we doing so far in our 173rd year? You be the judge.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Time will prove that the Baha'i Faith will bring unity and peace and an end to war, division and hostilities.

Tell that to LGBT people who are the elephant in the room every time Baha'is make a claim like this.

 

[psychoslice]

I myself don't believe that any religion that calls itself the only true religion could ever be a peaceful religion, just those very words are against peace, like what does that say about all other religions, no, its nothing more than arrogance.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Tell that to LGBT people who are the elephant in the room every time Baha'is make a claim like this.

The Baha'i teaching of the oneness of humanity is for everyone.

But our marriage laws are between a man and a woman only.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I myself don't believe that any religion that calls itself the only true religion could ever be a peaceful religion, just those very words are against peace, like what does that say about all other religions, no, its nothing more than arrogance.

There is no such thing as an only true religion as we understand. They all have truth and we can learn truth from all Faiths and all people and science and atheists as well.

There is no one we cannot learn from.

"Truth was a mirror in the hands of God
It fell, and broke into pieces
Everybody took a piece of it
And they looked at it and thought they had the truth."
- Rumi

 

[psychoslice]

There is no such thing as an only true religion as we understand. They all have truth and we can learn truth from all Faiths and all people and science and atheists as well.

There is no one we cannot learn from.

"Truth was a mirror in the hands of God
It fell, and broke into pieces
Everybody took a piece of it
And they looked at it and thought they had the truth."
- Rumi

Yes I agree, but only if that was true, especially for Christians and Muslims, and don't tell me that isn't true, for both believe they own the truth.