Colt
Well-Known Member
We are relatively free will beings living inside of Gods purpose. Gods "will" is preeminent.
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Gods will or Free will. Which dominates?
- Thread starter We Never Know
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I cannot recall ever saying that any prophecies were the 'best' evidence that show that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God. I might have said that predicting WWII was one of my favorite predictions, but it was not really a prophecy, it was a Tablet to Kaiser Wilhelm I warning Him what would happen if he did not do what Baha'u'llah had commanded.
Below is what Baha’u’llah wrote about the 'evidence' that establishes the truth of His claims. Baha’u’llah enjoined us to look at His own Self (His character), His Revelation (His mission and works, which can be seen in Baha'i history), and His words (His Writings).
“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106
From my understanding about studying the various religions, in short, your free will is due to God giving you free will. That does not mean you blame God for your crappy actions it simply means he gave you the choice and you chose to be good or bad. Put candy in front of a kid and tell them not to eat it but give them the free will to decide whether they eat it or not. That's the best analogy I can think of for this kind of topic.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
All I know is that I asked for your best evidence and that's what you presented. Personally someone making an accurate prediction indicates nothing more than someone made an accurate prediction. Certainly doesn't provide evidence of any sort of divine gift or insights.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I agree, an accurate prediction is not evidence of any sort of divine gift or insights. However, when there are many accurate predictions of events nobody could have known about, it is something that should make us stand up and take notice.
The Challenge of Baha'u'llah, PROOFS OF THE BAHA'I REVELATION
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I don't intend to read an entire book. That's why I asked you last time for the BEST evidence you think is in there. Accurate predictions simply are not sufficient for me.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
And I told you what the best evidence is in post #62
Below is what Baha’u’llah wrote about the 'evidence' that establishes the truth of His claims. Baha’u’llah enjoined us to look at His own Self (His character), His Revelation (His mission and works, which can be seen in Baha'i history), and His words (His Writings).
“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106
#62 Trailblazer
Neuropteron
Active Member
Not really, since it is His will that you choose for yourself.
Neuropteron
Active Member
Well yes, you would be going against his will. The bottom line is that he "permits" you to.
Otherwise if he forced you to do his will (in your life) , you could not have free will, but be a robot or an animal that functions within the parameter of instincts.
As I said before however, the person making the choice will eventually have to bear the consequences.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
This is just a series of claims. There's no actual evidence for anything is what you cited.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There are (a) claims and there is (b) evidence that supports those claims.
Please allow me to explain the 'difference' between a claim and the evidence that supports that claim.
a) Baha’u’llah’s Two Bold Claims
1. First, he declared he was God’s messenger for the next one thousand years, having the same divine authority, the same Holy Spirit, the same divine power, as Moses, Christ, Muhammad, and the other founders of the major world religions.
2. Baha’u’llah made a second and even more challenging claim. He declared he was the promised world messiah foretold in all the prophecies, in all the holy books, of all the religions of the world – the one promised to come on the Day of Judgment, the Day of God, the Time of the End, the End of the World, to establish the kingdom of God on Earth.
This station, by itself, makes the Baha’i Faith the youngest of the major world religions.
Baha’u’llah declared this period in history as the Day of God, the Time of the End. His mission is nothing less than the establishment of this glorious kingdom – the unification of the entire human race into an all-embracing, spiritually mature world civilization based upon divine principles of justice and love, and whose watchword will be unity in diversity.
With this second claim, Baha’is believe that all of the religions of the world have been consummated and fulfilled with the coming of Baha’u’llah.
b) Evidence that supports His claims
His own Self -- who He was, His character (His qualities). That can be determined by reading about Him on books such as the following: The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4
His Revelation -- what He accomplished (His Mission on earth/ the history of His Cause)
That can be determined by reading about His mission on books such as the following:
God Passes By (1844-1944)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.
His Writings -- what He wrote can be found in books that are posted online: The Works of Bahá'u'lláh
Bible prophecies that were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah -- proves that He was the Messiah and the return of Christ. Those prophecies and how they were fulfilled are delineated in the following book: William Sears, Thief in the Night
Predictions that Baha'u'llah made that later came to pass -- proves that He could see into the future, so He had prophetic powers. Some of these predictions and how they came to pass are listed and delineated in this book: The Challenge of Baha'u'llah
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