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Featured Gods will or Free will. Which dominates?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by We Never Know, May 11, 2021.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Maybe YOU do not see the fulfillment of those verses but I do. :)
    They are not fulfilled yet but they are in the process of being fulfilled.
    I do not know what anyone would think that all the Bible prophecies would be fulfilled instantly.
    Humanity did not get this way overnight so change will be a gradual process.
     
    #41 Trailblazer, May 12, 2021
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  2. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Certainly, we can choose to do good or bad.
    We can choose to plant weed and rip out fruit bearing trees, it's our choice, however a person always reaps what he sows.
     
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  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    So are you saying that God's will would be for you to do good, but you can instead choose to do bad?
    That would be going against God's will.
     
  4. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    That's the point... If a person can choose as they please with freewill, over what god wants,,, does that makes freewill stronger than gods will?
     
  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, it just means that person chose not to do what God wanted.
    God's will is always stronger than human free will, but God allows humans to do what they want to, be it good or bad.
     
  6. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I've yet to presented with any evidence whatsoever that any god being actually exists.
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I won't offer any of what I consider to be evidence because I already know the atheist response, since I have heard it hundreds of times: "That's not evidence."

    Given how many times I have heard that I know the drill. Live and learn. ;)
     
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  8. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Indeed... I'm continually amazed at the extremely low threshold some theist have for what they consider to be suitable 'evidence.'
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    My threshold is very high, as are my standards for evidence, but what is high to me is low to atheists, and thus me and the atheists continue to go round and round, but it's all in a day's work. :D

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    True enough. The claimed 'prophecies' you've shared with me in the past that you consider to be a high standard of evidence fall far short in my opinion.
     
  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Prophecies are not the best evidence for a Messenger of God, and that is why Baha'u'llah they never told us to look at prophecies to determine if His claims were true. The main reason I discuss Bible prophecies is because they are evidence for Christians. I have been discussing prophecies with @ Tiberius on the following thread....

    Loved ones in hell - take 2.

    That thread veered off topic a long time ago. Now it is just me and Tiberius and an occasional Christian who stops by. Stop by if you wish.
     
  12. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    The whole world is, just about! That’s why it’s “passing away.” — 1 John 2:15-17

    You said in an earlier post to me, that you see God’s will being done. Where? With upwards of 15,000 children dying every day
    ( Child and Infant Mortality ).... do you really think so?

    There are very few meek people...most are selfish, demanding their ‘rights’. And getting worse. The news is full of that!

    But this is not just ‘doom & gloom’ talk; keep in mind that, however worse it gets....Jesus spoke of “great tribulation that the world has never seen until now, no, nor will occur again,” But ....He said, “When you see all these things occurring, lift your heads up and raise yourselves erect, because your deliverance is getting near.” — Matthew 24:21, and parallel account at Luke 21:25-28

    Better times are coming for this planet, my cousin. “The tent of God [will be] with mankind”! — Revelation 21:3-4.
     
  13. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Active Member

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    Depends on one's faith.

    The more faith you have - the more aligned with God's will you will be.
     
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  14. alypius

    alypius Member

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    Is it necessary that there be a competitive relationship between the two?
     
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  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    It seems that way but looks can be deceiving because there is a lot going on that is good. The problem is that the bad is what gets noticed and in the news.
    Yes, I think so, but it is a slow process as the world and its people did not get this bad overnight!
    True, but haven't you ever heard that the darkest hour is before the dawn?

    “God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it............” The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

    God’s Purpose
    You don't see a tribulation taking place? But yes, it could gte a lot worse before it gets better, Baha'u'llah also warned us about that.

    “The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119
    Yes, I fully agree.

    “The day is approaching when the intervening clouds will have been completely dissipated, when the light of the words, “All honor belongeth unto God and unto them that love Him,” will have appeared, as manifest as the sun, above the horizon of the Will of the Almighty……

    Render thanks unto Him Who is the Desire of all worlds for having invested thee with such high honor. Ere long the world and all that is therein shall be as a thing forgotten, and all honor shall belong to the loved ones of thy Lord, the All-Glorious, the Most Bountiful.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 306
     
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  16. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    My Dad believed in predestination and was a member of the Primitive Baptist church. He believed you were either predestined to go to heaven or to go to hell. Any thoughts on it?
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That is possible, but I still think we have a part in affecting our own destiny, although God holds the reins of power in His Hands, and as such much of our fate we have no control over, so we just have to accept it.

    Fate and predestination is a very heavy topic. Baha'u'llah wrote that there are two kinds of fate, a fate that is impending and a fate that s irrevocable. God never alters an irrevocable fate even though He could. God can alter an impending fate, but there is no guarantee that He will do so.

    “Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

    The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

    God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Mate. Thats an oxymoron.

    It is like asking "I made a play ground and how dare anyone play in it". What in the world did I maker the playground for then?
     
  19. Ponder This

    Ponder This Well-Known Member

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    If God's Will is for people to have Freewill, then would your question be nonsensical?
     
  20. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    You've apparently changed your mind then, because you've sent me quotes that you claimed prophesized WWII as your 'best' evidence.
     
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