Electra
Active Member
I made a new place because an intro thread did not seem like the best place to discuss.
I am interested as to whom you think is allowed to for see 'God's laws'?
Any one can discuss plz
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I made a new place because an intro thread did not seem like the best place to discuss.
I am interested as to whom you think is allowed to for see 'God's laws'?
Any one can discuss plz
Lostandwandering is right. God is the ultimate source of truth and guidance. He knows us better than we know ourselves, and his commandments should be followed to create a tolerant and safe society. What Laws contradicts?
Everyone is judged individually, people with mental health problems won't be judged the same as others. Those who never received guidance won't be judged the same, nor will those who received a misaligned message.
Everyone is judged individually, people with mental health problems won't be judged the same as others. Those who never received guidance won't be judged the same, nor will those who received a misaligned message.
If it is the 'ten words' you refer to as God's rules, it is only the first three that are unique to God. The remaining apply to the survival of any social community. We are called to much more than breaking the 'negative' rules. Jesus makes this clear in the positive way he states the 'golden rule', which differs from that of Hillel's negative approach. When we presume to judge the morality of others we assume what belongs to God alone.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
It only takes a tiny fraction of a second, using your imagination to step into the shoes of a different animal/species to realize that what we view as sacred to ourselves/humans it just as easily interpreted as garbage.
The common house-fly, for example - a living human is a nuisance, a dead one is a buffet meal.
If humans were objectively important in some universal way, wouldn't the house-fly also have to recognize this importance? If your answer is "no", but you do view humans as universally important, then why do you think not?
That is only an extreme example of difference of perspective causing a difference in value judgment, but this same sort of nuance to "right" and "wrong" is even to be found (everywhere I might add) between human-to-human interactions and from culture to culture. It's the reason I can definitively state that God does not exist, while another insists that He does. I reserve no space in my view of morality for a god of any type. How am I even able to do this if there is one standard by which all are bound? The answer: there is no such standard.
The common house-fly, for example - a living human is a nuisance, a dead one is a buffet meal.
If humans were objectively important in some universal way, wouldn't the house-fly also have to recognize this importance? If your answer is "no", but you do view humans as universally important, then why do you think not?
That is only an extreme example of difference of perspective causing a difference in value judgment, but this same sort of nuance to "right" and "wrong" is even to be found (everywhere I might add) between human-to-human interactions and from culture to culture. It's the reason I can definitively state that God does not exist, while another insists that He does. I reserve no space in my view of morality for a god of any type. How am I even able to do this if there is one standard by which all are bound? The answer: there is no such standard.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Well said.
Electra
Active Member
My initial question was who has to write to pass judgment on these 'laws'? As you said yourself that it is not up to us to judge! There for how can we then say that someone has done a 'good' or 'bad' thing?
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I know that my God does not judge, does not label one as 'good' and one as 'bad' we are all his beautiful children, as unique and as the same.
But we all have our own personal truths.
Mrpasserby
Do not just Believe 'Become', I am Sufficient.
'@Electra: My initial question was who has to write to pass judgment on these 'laws'?'
In my experience: after having read most of the historical documents some of which are called the bible and all of the bible, I discovered written information leading up to the following story:
' A group of egyptian trained and well practiced stone cutters, went up a hill covered in stone. After 40 days they came back down the hill with two stone tablets that had writing on them.'
Are these the laws that you are referring to?
In my experience: after having read most of the historical documents some of which are called the bible and all of the bible, I discovered written information leading up to the following story:
' A group of egyptian trained and well practiced stone cutters, went up a hill covered in stone. After 40 days they came back down the hill with two stone tablets that had writing on them.'
Are these the laws that you are referring to?
GOD gives us Laws to follow and judge by. Men are custodians of the Earth and have been given permission to pass fair judgement to ensure we stay right with God.
This is the Judgement of this world, however we also face Judgement when we return to GOD, and I touched upon how every soul will be held to account, and some face less scrutiny than others on issues of mental health etc.
What religion do you follow?
Which God or Goddess?
When the Ten Commandments are compared with the principles by which the ancient Egyptians governed their lives, the laws of the Judaeo-Christian-Moslem world are barbaric and meaningless. The principle that governs the "True Egyptian" is Maat which is a religious principle that is more than justice, it is Divine-Justice, personified in the Goddess, (NTRT) Maat, who exemplifies the eternal laws of the universe as, Right and Truth.
MAAT - Right and Truth
Transgressions Against Mankind
1. I have not committed murder, neither have I bid any man to slay on my behalf;
2. I have not committed rape, neither have I forced any woman to commit fornication;
3. I have not avenged myself, nor have I burned with rage;
4. I have not caused terror, nor have I worked affliction;
5. I have caused none to feel pain, nor have I worked grief;
6. I have done neither harm nor ill, nor I have caused misery;
7. I have done no hurt to man, nor have I wrought harm to beasts;
8. I have made none to weep;
9. I have had no knowledge of evil, neither have I acted wickedly, nor have I wronged the people;
10. I have not stolen, neither have I taken that which does not belong to me, nor that which belongs to another, nor have I taken from the orchards, nor snatched the milk from the mouth of the babe;
11. I have not defrauded, neither I have added to the weight of the balance, nor have I made light the weight in the scales;
12. I have not laid waste the plowed land, nor trampled down the fields;
The Pagan Goddess and Gods of The House of The Goddess of The Most High
Mrpasserby
Do not just Believe 'Become', I am Sufficient.
@Electra,'This is the Judgement of this world, however we also face Judgement when we return to GOD, and I touched upon how every soul will be held to account, and some face less scrutiny than others on issues of mental health etc.'
I am new to posting here in the RF and all of this moving posts around is confusing.
In my experience: after having read the historical documents some of which are called the bible. I find that the information about those who produced the stone tablets containing the laws of that which you speak of are a little irregular in action as opposed to word.
'There was a prince of egypt named Moses, one day he was caught and went to court, after having killed a member of the pharaoh's court. He was then sentenced to be exiled from the kingdom.'
'Later in the story Moses a former prince of egypt lead a group of egyptian trained and well practiced stone cutters, up a hill covered in stone. After 40 days they came back down the hill with two stone tablets that had writing on them.'
Are these the laws that you are referring to?
In my experience: it is not the words that teach the things of the spirit, it the actual experiential knowledge that teaches. I go on spirit quests, I work with spirits. In the historical documents some of which are called the bible, the following words seem to apply to me: "you will see as you are seen, and know as you are know" (paraphrased to bring out the meaning).
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Hi,
Yes the Laws were based on those Tablets. They were for a certain period in History, and later Prophets came to add and adjust for all of Mankind.
You work with Spirits and we know some are very old, Thousands of years is not uncommon. Can they not confirm the story of Moses, peace be upon him, to you?
There is no such thing as an inherently meaningful set of "god's laws".
Morality is a duty imposed by the ability of abstract thought. Some conceptions of deities are shaped to some extent or another by our perceptions of morality, but it does not really work in the opposite direction.
Morality is a duty imposed by the ability of abstract thought. Some conceptions of deities are shaped to some extent or another by our perceptions of morality, but it does not really work in the opposite direction.
Mrpasserby
Do not just Believe 'Become', I am Sufficient.
@Electra, You must be a very nice person to put up with my ramblings. Yes, the spirits that I live with are mostly ok with Moses, my point was not to insult anyone but to express information about looking to the god within, and discovering your own personal power to create.
In my experience: this internal looking and taking action is watt produces the sort of outer manifestations that the Greats of the historical documents display in their lives.
Mrpasserby
Do not just Believe 'Become', I am Sufficient.
@LuisDantas, I like the 'Morality is a duty' part of your comment, I personally would frame it, 'within actions taken in the physical realm'. I don't understand 'it does not work in the opposite direction.'
Deities are often associated with morality, but it only really works in one direction. They are repositories of perceptions of morality, but not at all a good source for morality.
Electra
Active Member
How do you know that this is God's will? There is no way that the way humans pass judgment on Earth is 'fair'. Look at the prisons - many will be of low income status, mental health, family issues & drug reliance. Rather the rich and in power can get past these 'fair' judgments we as humans are not capable of passing?
I do not 'follow' anything or anyone, instead I 'lead' with my personal connection to God. Always learning & challenging.
It's God's will because, He sent down clear guidance on how to live and built societies to benefit ourselves in both this and the next life.
If you want to examine a specific example from your list, then we can do that. We will set up 2 States, one Islamic as it was under early Islam, and another run under your control.
If everyone lived like you then who would deal with matters of criminality, murder, rape, robbery etc
Give me your vision of the World.
I don't think we are judged on any particular action, but by the totality of who we have become in relation to these first three Laws, especially the first one. The first three precepts refer to God, the following refer primarily to one’s fellow Israelites. If one deliberately inflicts an unjustified action that harms another it seems we may and ought to judge that action as 'bad thing'. As for 'good' actions, only God knows the heart and the intentions of an action. Interestingly, for that reason the Catholic Church does not allow, during its Rite of Christian
funeral, eulogies until after the liturgy has ended.
Electra
Active Member
He sent us guidance on laws (if you follow scripture) but does he send guidance on us to punish fellow man for disobeying? how does that = God's will?
I do not wish to control anything but for each to live for themselves. This would be a process in implementing and many will have the passion.
The one where we take more responsibility for our actions is the victor?
I don't want everyone to live like me but to make their own mind up.
For us to move foreword regardless, everyone is open about who they are/what they want. Once this starts happening, we will start to see more clearly and see impostors, they will feel to move on to find another group (starting to learn they need to change).
Most crimes happen from isolation/lack of intimacy. An open community, with activities, skill shares, meal shares, bigger housing with more then one 'family'. Better mental health & drug(mental health) programs (not just pills). Just doing that would help us. Better 'schooling' community based with life skills.
Notice shop lifters are less likely to take something if you say hello to them. It is a change on the side of the 'criminals' and the other . . . it is a society, we work together.
Noticing if you are judging someone from their appearance as 'bad' to be 'cautious' or if you are open to all as family.
Idealy, no one would 'punish' because that just leads to more crimes.
When we as a whole start to express and feel our emotions more, the punishment of feeling guilty would really be enough, usually they would have to leave there commune as the relationships around them are lost and start fresh.
slowly but surely
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The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
What's wrong with setting up a state under Islam as it currently exists? Your decision to go specifically for "early Islam" seems odd in light of the belief that Islam is the complete & perfect religion sent by your god.