God's Creation, and Some Misconceptions

[joelr]

all a perception, there is NO "MATTER", only a Perception.

101G.

Now you are way out in wu-wu land. Spacetime, quantum fields, energy, all can be demonstrated to exist outside of us. Any confirmation does have to come through our senses. But this leads down a philosophy hole about materialism. Doesn't lead to deism. Definitely doesn't lead to theism - Krishna, Zeus, Yahweh.

 

[joelr]

@dybmh, @Soapy, and to all.

here is something for you to chew on in our discussion concerning the Garden. physical or Spiritual in Nature. and a revelation on the Godhead.

in reading the book of ACTS again, Acts 4:8 "Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel," Acts 4:9 "If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;" Acts 4:10 "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." Acts 4:11 "This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner." Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

on the Godhead soapy
This is not the Apostles words but God words through his apostle Peter. The address is from God, the Lord Jesus. LISTEN CAREFULLY, for this is IMPORTANT. while addressing the elders, and chief priest, my mind went back to what the Lord Jesus said.

You have not demonstrated any such thing. Acts is considered the most fictional of all the NT.
Richard Pervo and Thomas Brodie have compiled all of the evidence in their work and it's become the consensus opinion in historical studies.

Although it is implied in the preface of the book of Acts that it is supposed to be some kind of historical account, this couldn’t be further from the truth. In fact, Acts has been thoroughly discredited as nothing more than a work of apologetic historical fiction, and the scholarship of Richard Pervo conclusively demonstrates this to be the case. Regarding any historical sources that Luke may have used for Acts, the only one that has been confirmed with any probability was that of Josephus (a person who never wrote about Jesus Christ nor Christianity, yet was likely used by Luke for background material), and although there may have been more historical sources than Josephus, we simply don’t have any evidence preserved from those other possible historians to make a case one way or the other. All of the other sources that we can discern within Acts are literary sources, not historical ones. Included in these literary sources is what may possibly have been a (now-lost) hagiographical fabrication, and basically a rewrite of the Elijah-Elisha narrative in some of the Old Testament (OT) texts of Kings, although placing Paul and Jesus in the main roles instead, which obviously would have been a literary source of historical fiction (not any kind of historical account).
The scholar Thomas Brodie has argued that this evident reworking of the Kings narrative starts in Luke’s Gospel and continues on until Acts chapter 15, thus indicating that Luke either integrated this literary creation into his story or he used an underlying source text, such as some previous Gospel that not only covered the acts of Jesus but also the acts of the apostles. So it appears that Luke either used this source text or his own literary idea and then inserted more stories into it, effectively expanding the whole story into two books, while also utilizing some material from Mark and Matthew during the process (and potentially other now-lost Gospels) and some material from the epistles of Paul. In any case, the unnamed source text mentioned thus far is a hypothetical one that can only be inferred to have existed from the evidence of what’s written in Acts. Luckily, the remaining literary sources that scholars can discern Luke used are indeed sources we actually have and thus can directly compare to and analyze.

The Book of Acts as Historical Fiction

Previously, I wrote a series of posts that mentioned several elements from Richard Carrier’s historical/literary analysis of the Gospels in the New Testament (showing that they are not histor…

lagevondissen.wordpress.com

" Matthew 10:19 "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak." Matthew 10:20 "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

Yes Matthew 10:19.
I said Matthew was a copy of Mark right? Well,.......
Mark 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Matthew is a re-write of Mark, which is a myth.

BREAKDOWN: Matthew 10:20 "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

When the Lord Jesus said “MY” Father, and we say “MY” Father, we are not speaking biological, but metaphorically, (Spiritual). of (First and Last). let 101G put in an Example. if I speak of Earthly thing, then one can understand the Heavenly THINGS, Right. Now a EARTHLY THING. question, “are you before your earthly Father in flesh?" NO. Then you’re the Son, or the Last, or AFTER your earthly father. Correct….. but was not the Lord Jesus, the Ordinal Last, in flesh first, before his Father the Ordinal First who is Spirit? are we so sure? this question open up something for us to consider. His Father, (himself, the Ordinal First), was in Glorified Flesh in the Garden. How do you know this 101G. Genesis 3:8 "And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden." Genesis 3:9 "And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?"

dybmh, on the spiritually on the Garden.
first, how do one HEAR God's "VOICE", especially God's....... who is a Spirit, but no one supposed to have heard God voice?

second, How can one hear God "WALKING", again who is a Spirit.

third, how can one "SEE" God FACE, for the Hebrew term PRESENCE means "FACE",
Presence: H6440 פָּנִים paniym (paw-neem') n-m.
פָּנֶה paneh (paw-neh') [singular (but always as plural) of an unused noun]

Uh, really? So yeah, that's because in the OLD TESTAMENT, people saw all of Yahweh's body parts, spoke to him, wrestled with him, as if he was a human. YAhweh was written as a typical Near Eastern Deity. Later in the NT God is mysterious which was also the trend in Hellenistic and Persian religions, exactly where the theology comes from.


And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me....
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.



YOu know God spoke to Adam, Job, the Israelites in Exodus and many more. The original Hebrew gives descriptions of all his body parts, including his voice. So the NT is WRONG when it makes those claims. It's just changing ideas about God to match the Greek religions it's borrowing from.

1. the face (as the part that turns).
2. (with prepositional prefix, as a preposition) before, etc.
{used in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively}
[from H6437]
KJV: + accept, a-(be-)fore(-time), against, anger, X as (long as), at, + battle, + because (of), + beseech, countenance, edge, + employ, endure, + enquire, face, favour, fear of, for, forefront(-part), form(-er time, -ward), from, front, heaviness, X him(-self), + honourable, + impudent, + in, it, look(-eth) (-s), X me, + meet, X more than, mouth, of, off, (of) old (time), X on, open, + out of, over against, the partial, person, + please, presence, prospect, was purposed, by reason of, + regard, right forth, + serve, X shewbread, sight, state, straight, + street, X thee, X them(-selves), through (+ - out), till, time(-s) past, (un-)to(-ward), + upon, upside (+ down), with(- in, + -stand), X ye, X you.
Root(s): H6437

now, 101G have a suggestion, a way, not saying this is the ONLY ANSWER, or way. but so far, this could only take place if ADAM was in spirit form of manifestation, before he fell into sin, and self-consciousness.

the reason why 101G say this is this. the Lord Jesus upon Resurrection the Lord Jesus had flesh and bone. Luke 24:36 "And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you." Luke 24:37 "But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit." Luke 24:38 "And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?"m Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

but notice, the Lord said, he had flesh and bone, but no BLOOD in the resurrected state. now this, Genesis 2:21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;" Genesis 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man." Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

well a question, WHERE IS THE BLOOD? ..... BLOOD OF MY BLOOD?

blood was given for the life of the "NATURAL" flesh in a sinful state, and not in a glorified body, or a spiritual State, which is the body to come. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

note, flesh and BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God, but flesh and bone can.

101G.

pointless theory. Paul clearly talks about the resurrected body of Jesus as a spirit body and cannot be known. But still pointless.

KJV - an incorrect english translation of the already incorrect Masoretic translation from the 11th century.

 

[101G]

Any confirmation does have to come through our senses

First ERROR of the day. if the nerves were cut off or blocked, say for instance from the leg, one can cut it off and there would appear nothing was wrong or happen. that is a perception. you still don't get it do U? all of your experiences in this CREATED WORLD, are nothing but electrical signals in your brain. my God how hard is it.

101G.

 

[101G]

You have not demonstrated any such thing. Acts is considered the most fictional of all the NT.
Richard Pervo and Thomas Brodie have compiled all of the evidence in their work and it's become the consensus opinion in historical studies.

Although it is implied in the preface of the book of Acts that it is supposed to be some kind of historical account, this couldn’t be further from the truth. In fact, Acts has been thoroughly discredited as nothing more than a work of apologetic historical fiction, and the scholarship of Richard Pervo conclusively demonstrates this to be the case. Regarding any historical sources that Luke may have used for Acts, the only one that has been confirmed with any probability was that of Josephus (a person who never wrote about Jesus Christ nor Christianity, yet was likely used by Luke for background material), and although there may have been more historical sources than Josephus, we simply don’t have any evidence preserved from those other possible historians to make a case one way or the other. All of the other sources that we can discern within Acts are literary sources, not historical ones. Included in these literary sources is what may possibly have been a (now-lost) hagiographical fabrication, and basically a rewrite of the Elijah-Elisha narrative in some of the Old Testament (OT) texts of Kings, although placing Paul and Jesus in the main roles instead, which obviously would have been a literary source of historical fiction (not any kind of historical account).
The scholar Thomas Brodie has argued that this evident reworking of the Kings narrative starts in Luke’s Gospel and continues on until Acts chapter 15, thus indicating that Luke either integrated this literary creation into his story or he used an underlying source text, such as some previous Gospel that not only covered the acts of Jesus but also the acts of the apostles. So it appears that Luke either used this source text or his own literary idea and then inserted more stories into it, effectively expanding the whole story into two books, while also utilizing some material from Mark and Matthew during the process (and potentially other now-lost Gospels) and some material from the epistles of Paul. In any case, the unnamed source text mentioned thus far is a hypothetical one that can only be inferred to have existed from the evidence of what’s written in Acts. Luckily, the remaining literary sources that scholars can discern Luke used are indeed sources we actually have and thus can directly compare to and analyze.

The Book of Acts as Historical Fiction

Previously, I wrote a series of posts that mentioned several elements from Richard Carrier’s historical/literary analysis of the Gospels in the New Testament (showing that they are not histor…

lagevondissen.wordpress.com

Yes Matthew 10:19.
I said Matthew was a copy of Mark right? Well,.......
Mark 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Matthew is a re-write of Mark, which is a myth.





Uh, really? So yeah, that's because in the OLD TESTAMENT, people saw all of Yahweh's body parts, spoke to him, wrestled with him, as if he was a human. YAhweh was written as a typical Near Eastern Deity. Later in the NT God is mysterious which was also the trend in Hellenistic and Persian religions, exactly where the theology comes from.


And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me....
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.



YOu know God spoke to Adam, Job, the Israelites in Exodus and many more. The original Hebrew gives descriptions of all his body parts, including his voice. So the NT is WRONG when it makes those claims. It's just changing ideas about God to match the Greek religions it's borrowing from.



pointless theory. Paul clearly talks about the resurrected body of Jesus as a spirit body and cannot be known. But still pointless.

KJV - an incorrect english translation of the already incorrect Masoretic translation from the 11th century.

one word for U ..... NEXT.... (smile) LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh my. my. my. scripture, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

101G.

 

[gnostic]

one word for U ..... NEXT.... (smile) LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh my. my. my. scripture, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

101G.

If god actually said those things in the quoted passage, then he sounds both petty and malicious, one that holds grudges.

Say you substitute “god” and “people”, respectively with a “parent” (eg if “you” were the “parent”) & “children”, would you destroy your own children for not having the “knowledge“?

Would you ignore or “forget” your grandchildren for something your children did or didn’t do?

As I said god sounds like a petty and vicious human.

 

[101G]

If god actually said those things in the quoted passage, then he sounds both petty and malicious, one that holds grudges.

Say you substitute “god” and “people”, respectively with a “parent” (eg if “you” were the “parent”) & “children”, would you destroy your own children for not having the “knowledge“?

Would you ignore or “forget” your grandchildren for something your children did or didn’t do?

As I said god sounds like a petty and vicious human.

sorry no substitution. now listen closely, Matthew 3:7 "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" Matthew 3:8 "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: "Matthew 3:9 "And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."

now, do you fully understand that verse. don't think YOU GRANDCHILDREN, no MINE are so Special ....... (smile)... ok. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. we walk by Faith and not by sight,

101G.

 

[joelr]

one word for U ..... NEXT.... (smile) LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh my. my. my. scripture, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

101G.

Why do you always write all this weird preemptive junk - NEXT............(smile)....LOLOLOLOL - and then provide no evidence whatsoever?
Literally, nothing.
Yes scripture says people who reject the religion they are selling are in big trouble by god. In EVERY RELIGION???? Tip: doesn't mean it's true.

Verse (3:187) QURAN​ And (remember) when Allah laid a charge on those who had received the Scripture (He said): Ye are to expound it to mankind and not to hide it. But they flung it behind their backs and bought thereby a little gain. Verily evil is that which they have gained thereby. Oh look the Quran says it as well. Yes that is what religions do, tell people if they reject them then God will be upset. But since you like Hosea so much let's look at all the great things to be found Because the Samaritans chose to worship another deity, God will dash their infants to pieces and their "women with child shall be ripped up." 13:16 "I will slay even the beloved fruit of their womb." 9:16 "O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts." 9:14 God will induce miscarriages and kill the children of Ephraim. 9:11-12 If you misbehave, God will make your daughters "commit whoredom" and your wife "commit adultery." 4:13

 

[101G]

Why do you always write all this weird preemptive junk - NEXT............(smile)....LOLOLOLOL - and then provide no evidence whatsoever?
Literally, nothing.
Yes scripture says people who reject the religion they are selling are in big trouble by god. In EVERY RELIGION???? Tip: doesn't mean it's true.

why U care, did you not say the bible is a myth? ...... (smile).... Oh dear.

see, those who supposed to be of science is IGNORANT to the word of God as well as to the perceived world around them, they are IGNORANT of both worlds. this is why I laugh/Smile at their IGNORANCE. what they call real is only a perception. they cannot get their heads around that this is a CREATED world, and not the REAL WORLD.

and they complain, and belly ache because they cannot even prove the perception, they receive. that they believe, get it, BELIEVE what they perceive is TRUE. oh what limited mind set...... so, let the blind lead the blind, it's not for me. when your own science tells you that the world you live in is a created one and U cannot accept the very own science U support, I'll leave you to yourself.

101G.

Verse (3:187) QURAN​

And (remember) when Allah laid a charge on those who had received the Scripture (He said): Ye are to expound it to mankind and not to hide it. But they flung it behind their backs and bought thereby a little gain. Verily evil is that which they have gained thereby.

Oh look the Quran says it as well. Yes that is what religions do, tell people if they reject them then God will be upset.

But since you like Hosea so much let's look at all the great things to be found

1. Because the Samaritans chose to worship another deity, God will dash their infants to pieces and their "women with child shall be ripped up." 13:16
2. "I will slay even the beloved fruit of their womb." 9:16
3. "O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts." 9:14
4. God will induce miscarriages and kill the children of Ephraim. 9:11-12
5. If you misbehave, God will make your daughters "commit whoredom" and your wife "commit adultery." 4:13

"Oh look the Quran says it as well. Yes that is what religions do, tell people if they reject them then God will be upset". LOL, LOL, LOL,

now .... Hosea 9:11 "As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception." Hosea 9:12 "Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them!" Hosea 9:13 "Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer." Hosea 9:14 "Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts."

What is God's answer to this? LISTEN and LEARN,
do the Quran says this as well, Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts."

one has to GROW UP, get of the titty, quit sucking MILK, and get on MEAT...... (smile). Oh Dear.

101G.

 

[joelr]

why U care, did you not say the bible is a myth? ...... (smile).... Oh dear.

Yes, it is a myth, the God part and many of the stories. But yes, all religions say "you better listen or else"...so not evidence.

see, those who supposed to be of science is IGNORANT to the word of God as well as to the perceived world around them, they are IGNORANT of both worlds. this is why I laugh/Smile at their IGNORANCE. what they call real is only a perception.

Sure, and you are IGNORANT of Allah's words in the Quran. And you are IGNORANT of Krishna's words in Hindu scripture.
YAWN........please prove any words in a book is from God. Because they look like made-up stories and Yahweh looks like a typical Near Eastern deity, same same for thousands of years prior.

Yes science knows the world is a perception, you don't even know that? Again, you just make claims, that an ancient religion, that looks like all the other ancient religions is the word of God. Don't think so. Can you prove this is from a God?

they cannot get their heads around that this is a CREATED world, and not the REAL WORLD.

Because there isn't evidence. A book of myths isn't evidence. Just like you don't run to the Quran for information, they don't care about the Bible. It's fiction. The natural laws created the world, we already know this.

and they complain, and belly ache because they cannot even prove the perception, they receive. that they believe, get it, BELIEVE what they perceive is TRUE. oh what limited mind set...... so, let the blind lead the blind, it's not for me.

Uh, nope. Science doesn't say that. The strawman version of science in your mind says that. Have you even left your folks basement or looked at one single science lecture, your ideas are completely wrong about what science thinks.

when your own science tells you that the world you live in is a created one and U cannot accept the very own science U support, I'll leave you to yourself.

Science demonstrates there are laws of physics, spacetime and so on that cause everything we see as reality. The stories about Gods in ancient books have nothing to do with reality, they are stories. Copied from older stories.

101G.

"Oh look the Quran says it as well. Yes that is what religions do, tell people if they reject them then God will be upset". LOL, LOL, LOL,

now .... Hosea 9:11 "As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception." Hosea 9:12 "Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them!" Hosea 9:13 "Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer." Hosea 9:14 "Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts."

Yes Israelites wrote about Gods. So did Canaanites, Thracians, Egyptians, Romans, they all had scriptures and similar sayings. So what? People wrote this.

What is God's answer to this? LISTEN and LEARN,
do the Quran says this as well, Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts."

Yes it does, -

Surah Al-Baqarah - 282​

Be mindful of God, and He will teach you: He has full knowledge of everything.
https://quran.com/2/282?translations=21,20,19,17,101,95,85,84,22,18
"Weaned from the milk" is a mystery religion metaphor that came from Hellenisms influence on religions. Christianity is a Jewish + Hellenism mystery religion. I didn't know signs of Greek thought appeared as far back as Isaiah?

one has to GROW UP, get of the titty, quit sucking MILK, and get on MEAT...... (smile). Oh Dear.

101G.

Mystery religion terminology. The NT is full of mystery religion terms showing (one way of many) that it's just another mystery religion influenced by contact with Hellenism.
Baptism, communal meal, logos, savior deities - son/daughter of supreme God who undergo a passion and get followers into an afterlife are all Greek inventions that spread into religions. Judaism + Hellenism = Jewish mystery religion/Christianity.

When you get on the meat you will understand those are stories, made up by combining theology from different cultures.

 

[101G]

GINOLC, to all,

Yes, it is a myth, the God part and many of the stories. But yes, all religions say "you better listen or else"...so not evidence.

poor excuse.

Sure, and you are IGNORANT of Allah's words in the Quran. And you are IGNORANT of Krishna's words in Hindu scripture.

personal opinion? U do know where theses and excuses go ... RIGHT .... into the trash can.... (smile), ...lol. lol. lol. YIKES!

Because there isn't evidence. A book of myths isn't evidence. Just like you don't run to the Quran for information, they don't care about the Bible. It's fiction. The natural laws created the world, we already know this.

see above

Uh, nope. Science doesn't say that. The strawman version of science in your mind says that. Have you even left your folks basement or looked at one single science lecture, your ideas are completely wrong about what science thinks.

see above, above.....

Science demonstrates there are laws of physics,

Written by God.

spacetime and so on that cause everything we see as reality

again by God, and seen? been known that. Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

Yes Israelites wrote about Gods. So did Canaanites, Thracians, Egyptians, Romans, they all had scriptures and similar sayings. So what? People wrote this.

And?

Yes it does, -

Surah Al-Baqarah - 282​

Be mindful of God, and He will teach you: He has full knowledge of everything.
Surah Al-Baqarah - 282 - Quran.com
"Weaned from the milk" is a mystery religion metaphor that came from Hellenisms influence on religions. Christianity is a Jewish + Hellenism mystery religion. I didn't know signs of Greek thought appeared as far back as Isaiah?

NONESENSE, it means GET some "SENSE" GROW UP. My God what mystery is that.... to Grow up?. 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

so put away YOUR MYSTERY religions and let all get the common sense God gave US. note: religions with the "s" atr the end... YIKES!

Mystery religion terminology. The NT is full of mystery religion terms showing (one way of many) that it's just another mystery religion influenced by contact with Hellenism.
Baptism, communal meal, logos, savior deities - son/daughter of supreme God who undergo a passion and get followers into an afterlife are all Greek inventions that spread into religions. Judaism + Hellenism = Jewish mystery religion/Christianity.

When you get on the meat you will understand those are stories, made up by combining theology from different cultures.

another personal Opinion? ....... sink that ship ....., lol, lol, lol, ... Oh dear.
see, above, above, above, above, above....... Above...

101G

 

[joelr]

poor excuse.

All religions make the claim you must listen to the God, some won't understand, blah blah. If you are posting it like it's unique, it isn't and it isn't evidence that it's real. People wrote this.

personal opinion? U do know where theses and excuses go ... RIGHT .... into the trash can.... (smile), ...lol. lol. lol. YIKES!

I don't think you even understand the reference. Maybe if you focused less on which emoji you are going to use and how many times to say "LOL" you can understand what is being written. Why you go through the trouble to emulate 10th graders on twitter I have no idea.
You post scripture and say I'm "ignorant" of this verse. So I'm saying a Muslim and show you a verse from the Quran and say the same to you. Of course you don't care? That is exactly the point. Just because you bought into one book of stories doesn't make it true, just as a Muslim buys into the Quran and will post verse from that.

see above

Nope, above doesn't answer to this.

see above, above.....

Again, your misunderstanding of the point above doesn't answer the point.

Written by God.

Great, provide evidence. We know for a fact there are physics laws. We know of no God. There are several believed, thousands over the centuries. Yahweh is the same as all other Near Eastern deities of the period, the Israelites even used Mesopotamian mythology to start out their book. So you have a bunch of fictional stories about a God flooding humans, sending plagues, fighting sea monsters, telling people what animals (and people ) to sacrifice....sounds like a made up God.

again by God, and seen? been known that. Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

You haven't demonstrated any God? You just keep posting words written by men. Which we know for a fact they had to use older stories to even start their own myth.
And then, Romans. Again. For the 2nd time, Romans is not about spacetime or any physics. It means since God created the world we can see his invisible aspects. The things made give us understanding that he is real. That is what it means. This was said about Inanna as well.
Since we see the world Inanna is truly magnificent and great and the world confirms her greatness.

And it was said about Atum-Ra the supreme Egyptian supreme God and the Persian God. Everything in the Bible is taken from older religions.
And they are all made up Gods. You keep going to a 3 thousand year old book of myths and make believe Gods, angels, giants, spells, curses, talking snakes, and Gods flying in chariots on smoke pillars. It's more fictional than Lord of the Rings.

And?

and they are make believe. Back then people. thought Gods were real and rain, illness and everything else was their doing. They are actually made up.

NONESENSE, it means GET some "SENSE" GROW UP. My God what mystery is that.... to Grow up?. 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

so put away YOUR MYSTERY religions and let all get the common sense God gave US. note: religions with the "s" atr the end... YIKES!

You can say "nonsense" all day long until you are red in the face. It is a historical fact that that terminology is common in mystery religions.
Mystery religions are religions that were occupied by Greeks and adopted their Hellenistic theology, baptism, communion, salvation for individuals, savior deities who undergo a passion and get followers into an afterlife. These started before Christianity. Christianity was the last mystery religion. These religions also had certain ways of speaking and the Gospels also use mystery terminology in many places.
Cor 13:11 I didn't even know about, that is yet ANOTHER mystery term. Paul is clearly conceiving of the religion as a mystery religion.

Christianity is 100% a Jewish mystery religion.

I can source this and point to some peer-reviewed books but I am sure you don't care about those things.

another personal Opinion? ....... sink that ship ....., lol, lol, lol, ... Oh dear.
see, above, above, above, above, above....... Above...

101G

Sorry, nothing "above" provides any coherent answers. Or were you just pointing to the emojis and "LOL"?
It isn't personal opinion. It's solid scholarship, historians have studied mystery religions for centuries and are aware Christianity fits exactly into the model. The Greeks also did occupy Judea and Hellenize Jewish thought which produced Christianity. There was also a Hellenized Judaism that didn't survive.
Do you have an actual argument? You just are making the same claim over and over and filling space with random words and emoj.

 

[101G]

All religions make the claim you must listen to the God, some won't understand, blah blah. If you are posting it like it's unique, it isn't and it isn't evidence that it's real. People wrote this.

GINOLJC, to all,
your First ERROR of the day. people under the influence of God they wrote. so get it right..... ok.

I don't think you even understand the reference. Maybe if you focused less on which emoji you are going to use and how many times to say "LOL" you can understand what is being written. Why you go through the trouble to emulate 10th graders on twitter I have no idea.
You post scripture and say I'm "ignorant" of this verse. So I'm saying a Muslim and show you a verse from the Quran and say the same to you. Of course you don't care? That is exactly the point. Just because you bought into one book of stories doesn't make it true, just as a Muslim buys into the Quran and will post verse from that.

personal opinion again? ....

Nope, above doesn't answer to this.

it do, see above, above...... (smile)... lol, lol, lol,

and they are make believe. Back then people. thought Gods were real and rain, illness and everything else was their doing. They are actually made up.

back then? get out of the past.

You can say "nonsense" all day long until you are red in the face.

I'm black ..... (smile).... Oh dear.

Christianity is 100% a Jewish mystery religion.

How so? or is that just another opinion? ... YIKES!

I can source this and point to some peer-reviewed books but I am sure you don't care about those things.

another opinion? how do U know what 101G care about, or NOT? are you a mind reader also.... (smile), .... lol. Oh dear.

It's solid scholarship, historians have studied mystery religions for centuries and are aware Christianity fits exactly into the model.

ok mystery man when was the Sun created on day ...... ? your answer mystery man.

Do you have an actual argument? You just are making the same claim over and over and filling space with random words and emoj.

are you not doing the same?
put your scriptures, or science on the table.

101G.

 

[joelr]

GINOLJC, to all,
your First ERROR of the day. people under the influence of God they wrote. so get it right..... ok.

If you want to have an abrasive and insulting style and constantly yell "ERROR" at people like the robot from Lost in Space spinning around waving his arms, you could at least make a good point now and then?
The Hindu scriptures say they were written by a God, the Quran was written by a man who was being dictated messages by an angel sent by Yahweh.
Don't believe it? Well great because your book is equally as unbelieveable. So this God can't even come up with his own story? He needs Mesopotamian myths and Greek/Persian theology? Yahweh is a typical Near Eastern God, similar to all others, but only in this region. Showing it was in fact shared mythology.

You have no evidence of any Gods here. Just ancient stories re-hashed and slightly changed.

personal opinion again? ....

Yes, your personal opinion is a God in a book is real. Meanwhile other people say their God from a book is real. EVIDENCE PLEASE.

it do, see above, above...... (smile)... lol, lol, lol,

your claims of magic beings are as unlikely as you writing normal sentences.

back then? get out of the past.

I am out of the past, in the present where people know that those stories are fiction.

How so? or is that just another opinion? ... YIKES!

Richard Carrier | Mystery Cults & Christianity

I have specific points timestamped but I don't believe you are interested in scholarship, lectures, knowledge or truth at all.

another opinion? how do U know what 101G care about, or NOT? are you a mind reader also.... (smile), .... lol. Oh dear.

Yes, an opinion based on your writing. I do not think you care about papers or books. Am I correct?

ok mystery man when was the Sun created on day ...... ? your answer mystery man.

When the sun was created there were no planets. The sun was created in a nebula light years away and was slung shot into its current location and over millions of years formed planets.

are you not doing the same?

No I don't use emojis or useless words in (...) and I don't tell people I disagree with "ERROR". I explain my evidence. It's called debating if you ever want to try it.

put your scriptures, or science on the table.

101G.

I have plenty of references. So far anything I have given was just ignored by you. But since you asked I will timestamp the information you requested.

 

[joelr]

put your scriptures, or science on the table.

Richard Carrier | Mystery Cults & Christianity

:20 a subject normally people are NOT lecturing to the general public





:45 how to spot trends in religions, at that time China, India, Iran did not have these religious concepts, the Mediterranean region did have saviors and similar mythology.





1:40 Apologists say Judaism would not allow outside influence, Judaism actually adapts and borrows material from surrounding cultures. Judaism is similar to other nearby Near Eastern religions.





2:26 One big influence, Persians, conquer Judea 539-332 B.C.





2:50 Persian religion, Zoroastrianism had ideas Judaism did not have but picked up.


- War of good God vs Evil God/light vs dark/ God vs Satan


- Bad people burn in hell, good people wait in heaven


- A river of fire will flow over the universe burning everything up (even hell itself)


- A new better world created in it’s place


- All good people will be resurrected by God to live in that new world happily ever after





4:37 Greeks conquer Judea 332 - 110 B.C.Greek idea (Hellenism) flow into Judaism





5:05 Romans conquered Judea 63 B.C. - 636 A.D. split off from East





5:26 Mystery cults, come from Greek religions. Every culture that was conquered by Greeks, Egyptians, Persians, Thracians, all took the Mystery cult theology and added it to their local religion and came up with the Mystery religions.





6:06 Basic Mystery cult, common features:


- Individuals “initiated” into the mysteries, ritually and by teaching sworn secrets about the universe. Something about the cosmos one needed to be saved, secrets. Many secrets are now lost.


- purpose was to gain salvation in the afterlife


- all use baptism and communion(communal meals)


- fictive kinship “brotherhood”


9:00 - Trends in Hellenistic religion


- Petra Pakkanen, Interpreting Early Hellenistic Religion (1996)


- Four big trends in religion in the centuries leading up to Christianity


- Christianity conforms to all four


9:16 Four Trends


- Syncretism: combining a foreign cult deity with Hellenistic elements. Christianity is a Jewish mystery religion.


- Henotheism: transforming / reinterpreting polytheism into monotheism. Judaism introduced monolatric concepts.


- Individualism: agricultural salvation cults retooled as personal salvation cults. Salvation of community changed into personal individual salvation in afterlife. All original agricultural salvation cults were retooled by the time Christianity arose.


- Cosmopolitianism: all races, cultures, classes admitted as equals, with fictive kinship (members are all brothers) you now “join” a religion rather than being born into it





12:34 Savior deities, dying/rising, pre-Christian, Osiris, Adonis, Romulus, Zalmoxis, Inanna (oldest 1700 B.C., female deity resurrected in 3 days)





13:32 Worship of Inanna was continued in Tyre during the origin of Christianity (Tyre is mentioned in Bible). Highly unlikely it’s a coincidence that a Jewish sect decided to build their own version of a dying/rising deity using the Jewish concepts of angels instead of Gods.


15:37 bad scholarship on internet, Horus not a dying/rising God. Mithras is also not. Mithras does undergo a passion, no death.


18:30 All Mystery religions have personal savior deities


- All saviors


- all son/daughter, never the supreme God (including Mithriasm)


- all undergo a passion (struggle) patheon


- all obtain victory over death which they share with followers


- all have stories set on earth


- none actually existed


- Is Jesus the exception and based on a real Jewish teacher or is it all made up?





21:00


Pagan /Jewish element, Judea-Pagan Syncretism


Pagan - Savior son of God


Jewish - Messianic resurrection cult


Pagan - Undergoes ordeal by which he obtains victory over death


Jewish - based on blood atonement theology (substitutionary sacrifice)


Pagan - which he shares with those initiated into his cult for individual salvation


Jewish - adapting Passover and Yom Kippur


Pagan - in a universal brotherhood


Jewish - first by circumsision, then without


Pagan - through a baptismal invitation and communal meal


Jewish - through a baptismal invitation and communal meal





23:36 was difficult to convert to Judaism, Paul made innovations to make it easier. Original Torah observant sect of Christianity became smaller and smaller and disappears around 5th century. Islam may be re-emergence of a lost version of this original Christian sect. Halal is basically Kosher.





25:54 “But Christianity is different”, that is how syncretism works.


27:00 mysteries


Elusinian Mysteries = Mycenaean + Hellenistic


Bacchic Mysteries = Phoenician + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Attis and Cybele = Phrygian + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Baal = Anatolian + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Mithras = Persian + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Isis and Osiris = Egyptian + Hellenistic


Christian Mysteries = Jewish + Hellenistic





28:00 Christian Pesher (combining disparate passages in scripture that reveals “hidden messages”)


29:15 examples of Pesher logic taken from Old Testament and used for Jesus


32:00 Baptism, Christian version is different from Jewish/John the Baptist version of baptism. Differences are the same in all mystery religions.


- symbolic sharing of saviors ordeal


- to be born again (Osiris cult)


- united into brotherhood


- to be saved in afterlife


- cleaned of sin (Bacchus, Osiris, Mithras)


- baptism for dead (Paul mentions this 1 Cor, 15: 29)





37:05 Eucharist in Mystery religions


- become one with savior


- to be united in brotherhood


- saved in afterlife


- Lords Supper


- Rememberence, flesh/blood/death, 1 Cor 11:24-26





Christian Lords Supper is distinct in Jewish ways





38:50 Mysteries in scripture


1C. 4:1 We are entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed


R. 11:25 (Do not) be ignorant of this mystery


R. 16:25 (the) message I proclaim about Jesus Christ is in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past but now revealed


1C. 2:6, 7 (We) speak a message of wisdom among the mature….(and) declare God’s wisdom, a. Mystery that has been hidden


1C. 15:51 Listen I will tell you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed


1C. 3:1-2 I could not address you as people who live by the spirit but as people who are still worldly - mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. (Milk and solid food is mystery cult terminology)


H. 5:13-14 Anyone living on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for that mature. (Clearly conceiving the religion in mystery terms)


Mark 4:11-12 (Jesus) told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables, so (they won’t understand)”


Dead giveaway Mark is conceiving the teachings in mystery cult terms





42:00 Jesus becomes the Temple. Kamran sect was also anti-temple. Jews were looking for ways to replace temple cults because of corruption etc….


Jesus gives permanent atonement and so on.


42:52


Christianity is a Jewish Mystery religion, syncretic, henotheistic, individualist, universal brotherhood, savior son of God with passion and myth, baptism, Lords supper as communion for salvation, mysteries reserved for initiated.

 

[101G]

If you want to have an abrasive and insulting style and constantly yell "ERROR" at people like the robot from Lost in Space spinning around waving his arms, you could at least make a good point now and then?

Danger, Danger, will Roberson....... (smile).... better?.... the point was made,

ou have no evidence of any Gods here. Just ancient stories re-hashed and slightly changed.

did not 101G give you a ..... Good proof, again, are you breathing?

your claims of magic beings are as unlikely as you writing normal sentences.

another ERROR of this DAY, ...... 101G claim .... magic?................ see this is why you ERROR, or Danger, Danger, will Roberson. no 101G claim.... STOP, now get this,
you're right here, my bad, but as an acronym YES. M.A.G.I.C, which means "Man, (male, and Female), After, God, In, Christ" I love that acronym Man After God In Christ........ that a winner. well joelr U got something RIGHT.... may the Force be with U..... (smile)...... , lol, lol, lol. ... Oh dear.

I am out of the past, in the present where people know that those stories are fiction.

ok, you might be out of the past, but the past is still IN U....... .... YIKES!

Richard Carrier | Mystery Cults & Christianity

same opinion? just copied....... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh my.

Yes, an opinion based on your writing. I do not think you care about papers or books. Am I correct?

NO.

When the sun was created there were no planets. The sun was created in a nebula light years away and was slung shot into its current location and over millions of years formed planets.

First. which nebula? second, CREATED, correct, by God, and third, "and was slung shot into its current location". how can that be, when the sun is in motion, it's not in a permanent position relativity to space and time. it is moving in this galaxy. so your response is INNCORRECT, and flawed. now TRY AGAIN. ......... (smile).......

I have plenty of references. So far anything I have given was just ignored by you. But since you asked I will timestamp the information you requested.

like the one above.......... SEE ABOVE.

101G.

 

[101G]

your claims of magic beings are as unlikely as you writing normal sentences.

PS. 101G would like to modify "MAGIC" to "MAJIC" Men, (which include both male and female), After Jesus, In Christ", since Jesus is God real name, just replace the "G", God with "J", Jesus....... and we get "MAJIC" .......... Just like "MAGIC" but now "MAJIC"... pronounce the SAME, just with "JESUS", God Holy Name...... ... thanks old buddy, U're good for something.... thank you.

101G.

 

[joelr]

Danger, Danger, will Roberson....... (smile).... better?.... the point was made,

yes, better.

did not 101G give you a ..... Good proof, again, are you breathing?

Islam can say that and say it proves Allah, Hindu can say that and say it proves Brahman, any of the 10,000 cults and religions can use that to show the truth of their deity.
So no, that isn't proof, and you still just have stories, like the Muslims and Hindu.

another ERROR of this DAY, ...... 101G claim .... magic?................ see this is why you ERROR, or Danger, Danger, will Roberson. no 101G claim.... STOP, now get this,
you're right here, my bad, but as an acronym YES. M.A.G.I.C, which means "Man, (male, and Female), After, God, In, Christ" I love that acronym Man After God In Christ........ that a winner. well joelr U got something RIGHT.... may the Force be with U..... (smile)...... , lol, lol, lol. ... Oh dear.

NO the Bible has magic in it. It's that fictive. Spells, curses, the dreaded "sin force", talking animals (snakes), devils that possess pigs, angels, sea monsters, giants and more.
Jesus does magic, creates food from nothing, magic healings, magically arises Saints from the grave.

ok, you might be out of the past, but the past is still IN U....... .... YIKES!

Do you have, an argument, evidence, ?

same opinion? just copied....... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh my.

You asked for scholarship. Now you use the move the goalpost fallacy.

NO.

First. which nebula?

The Solar Nebula.

second, CREATED, correct, by God,

Your God is a fictional being in an old book. Still waiting for evidence.

and third, "and was slung shot into its current location". how can that be, when the sun is in motion, it's not in a permanent position relativity to space and time.

So science isn't your thing.
There is no such thing as a permanent position relative to space and time, that is a nonsense statement.

The sun was formed in a nebula and gravitationally slung until it was captured by the gravity of the local group and the local cluster where it now moves along with the larger structures within the galaxy

it is moving in this galaxy. so your response is INNCORRECT, and flawed. now TRY AGAIN. ......... (smile).......

the nebula. IS within the galaxy. Your response is complete nonsense and please do not try that again. Ever. Stick to magic.

like the one above.......... SEE ABOVE.

101G.

yes I got suckered, I did think you were interested in information that you would fail at debunking. But clearly that was far too ambitious.
We are not going to get past "oh yeah, well God is real and you are wrong". Debunking evidence is not in your wheelhouse. Neither is providing evidence so it's all good.

 

[joelr]

PS. 101G would like to modify "MAGIC" to "MAJIC" Men, (which include both male and female), After Jesus, In Christ", since Jesus is God real name, just replace the "G", God with "J", Jesus....... and we get "MAJIC" .......... Just like "MAGIC" but now "MAJIC"... pronounce the SAME, just with "JESUS", God Holy Name...... ... thanks old buddy, U're good for something.... thank you.

101G.

Actually "Jesus" is a Latin translation. The magic person was Joshua.


There have been various proposals as to the literal etymological meaning of the name Yəhôšuaʿ (Joshua, Hebrew: יְהוֹשֻׁעַ), including Yahweh/Yehowah saves, (is) salvation, (is) a saving-cry, (is) a cry-for-saving, (is) a cry-for-help, (is) my help.[4][5][6][7] A recent study proposes that the name should be understood as "Yahweh is lordly".[8


"Jesus" didn't start being used until modern times -

From Greek, Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous) moved into Latin at least by the time of the Vetus Latina. The morphological jump this time was not as large as previous changes between language families. Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous) was transliterated to Latin IESVS, where it stood for many centuries. The Latin name has an irregular declension, with a genitive, dative, ablative, and vocative of Jesu, accusative of Jesum, and nominative of Jesus. Minuscule (lower case) letters were developed around 800 and some time later the U was invented to distinguish the vowel sound from the consonantal sound and the J to distinguish the consonant from I. Similarly, Greek minuscules were invented about the same time, prior to that the name was written in capital letters (ΙΗϹΟΥϹ) or abbreviated as (ΙΗϹ) with a line over the top, see also Christogram.

Modern English Jesus derives from Early Middle English Iesu (attested from the 12th century). The name participated in the Great Vowel Shift in late Middle English (15th century). The letter J was first distinguished from 'I' by the Frenchman Pierre Ramus in the 16th century, but did not become common in Modern English until the 17th century, so that early 17th century works such as the first edition of the King James Version of the Bible (1611) continued to print the name with an I.[18]

From the Latin, the English language takes the forms "Jesus" (from the nominative form), and "Jesu" (from the vocative and oblique forms). "Jesus" is the predominantly used form, while "Jesu" lingers in some more archaic texts.



Joshua also means "Yahweh's savior", yeah that isn't suspicious at all, he just happened to be a Jewish version of the Greek savior demigod myth and his name is Yahweh's savior.............that is totally mythology.

 

[101G]

Islam can say that and say it proves Allah

did 101G say that? ....... (smile). 101G can careless what Islam say, Hindu , Baptist, JW, or any of the others out there say. only what God say.

NO the Bible has magic in it. It's that fictive. Spells, curses, the dreaded "sin force", talking animals (snakes), devils that possess pigs, angels, sea monsters, giants and more.
Jesus does magic, creates food from nothing, magic healings, magically arises Saints from the grave.

if you call on the NAME of the Lord, who is Jesus, you shall be saved..... is that Majic? ...... (smile).... LOL, LOL, LOL, YIKES!

Do you have, an argument, evidence, ?

see above.

The Solar Nebula.

LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh Dear.... no.

Your God is a fictional being in an old book. Still waiting for evidence.

with you it's the opposite of Faith, you have your evidence. but U don't even understand it.
see above, above..... (smile).

the nebula. IS within the galaxy.

where in the galaxy ?

So science isn't your thing.

your opinion again?

There is no such thing as a permanent position relative to space and time, that is a nonsense statement.

question, well two then, while you are on the EARTH, are you at rest while the Earth moves inertially on it's axis while moving around the sun?

next question. if you was "NOT" on Earth and in space above it in a rocket ship, motionless. and suddenly you ignite your craft engine and produce a forward motion. is the craft coming forward to meet you in a certain time and place in Space, or is it you, (stationary) meeting the craft, (it's force ) is in motion in a certain time and place in space. which one is in motion?

Actually "Jesus" is a Latin translation. The magic person was Joshua.

maybe, but Jesus is a TRANLITERATION of YESHUA..... (smile) .... YIKES!

A recent study proposes that the name should be understood as "Yahweh is lordly".

Yahweh, as well as Jehovah are made up name by man.

"Jesus" didn't start being used until modern times -

ERROR Jesus was YESHUA in the OT under "MY SALVATION"..... Lol, lol, lol, .... Oh Dear.

Joshua also means "Yahweh's savior", yeah that isn't suspicious at all, he just happened to be a Jewish version of the Greek savior demigod myth and his name is Yahweh's savior.............that is totally mythology.

ERROR,. ERROR, or danger will Robinson,,,, (smile). Joshua is not the Yeshua/Jesus, nor "OR" either...... there is only one true SAVIOUR of men from their sins. ....... and that's "JESUS".

101G.

 

[King Phenomenon]

I believe everything Was created all At once in the blink of an eye