God vs god AND... polytheism

[JRMcC]

God vs. god - I'm wondering of others see the difference.

Poseidon is a god. Allah is the God. God is the cause of all things, the ground of existence, and according to some is all knowing and all powerful. A god is a high being with certain kinds of powers. I always find it annoying when atheists say "I don't believe in any kind of god" because I think they're confusing two very different things.

Yes gods can, in some ways be compared to fairies or whatever. But the concept of God cannot. I think that the belief in God is at its core a way of understanding the human experience, not a belief that some guy exists.

I would also argue two things:

1. Having multiple Gods is like having a square circle.

2. One can believe in gods and be a non-theist or an atheist.

Do you guys know what I mean? I'd rather go into more detail in conversation than put up a wall of text.

Share your thoughts if you'd like!

- James

 

[Quintessence]

On the whole, none of what has been said above makes any sense to me at all. Perhaps because some assumptions are being made about how gods are understood outside of classical monotheism that are simply off-base.

 

[Jainarayan]

I suggest A World Full of Gods: An Inquiry into Polytheism by John Michael Greer to understand why polytheism makes more sense than monotheism.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

God vs. god - I'm wondering of others see the difference.

Poseidon is a god. Allah is the God. God is the cause of all things, the ground of existence, and according to some is all knowing and all powerful. A god is a high being with certain kinds of powers. I always find it annoying when atheists say "I don't believe in any kind of god" because I think they're confusing two very different things.

Yes gods can, in some ways be compared to fairies or whatever. But the concept of God cannot. I think that the belief in God is at its core a way of understanding the human experience, not a belief that some guy exists.

I would also argue two things:

1. Having multiple Gods is like having a square circle.

2. One can believe in gods and be a non-theist or an atheist.

Do you guys know what I mean? I'd rather go into more detail in conversation than put up a wall of text.

Share your thoughts if you'd like!

- James

Not sure I'm getting what you're saying/asking, but:

In the set of things that are "Deity," God is the extreme example that is a singular maximum on traits of godhood, such as a source of existence, perfection, etc., whereas other deities (gods) in the set only have partial possession of some of the qualities.

???

 

[JRMcC]

Not sure I'm getting what you're saying/asking, but:

In the set of things that are "Deity," God is the extreme example that is a singular maximum on traits of godhood, such as a source of existence, perfection, etc., whereas other deities (gods) in the set only have partial possession of some of the qualities.

???

How is Poseidon, for example, be partially the source of all things?

 

[JRMcC]

Perhaps because some assumptions are being made about how gods are understood outside of classical monotheism that are simply off-base.

Can you please clarify so we can have a more meaningful discussion?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

How is Poseidon, for example, be partially the source of all things?

Not up on my Classic Greek mythology, but if I recall correctly, Poseidon as with all the Greek Pantheon were a children of the Titan responsible for the creation of the Earth? And was part of the ordering of the world when the Gods replaced the Titans.
But even if we say Poseidon isn't at all the source of all things, even partially, he and each of the other gods in the pantheon may also have partial (not complete) knowing, power, universal existence, goodness, wisdom, love and all those other things that people assert that GOD has to the maximum degree.

 

[Jainarayan]

How is Poseidon, for example, be partially the source of all things?

I don't like to speak for others, but my interpretation and belief is that the gods are not all-powerful beings: they are not omnipresent, omniscient or omnipotent. That's a pretty common belief in polytheistic religions. I'd say the one exception is Hinduism; "... With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe." Bhagavad Gita 10.42

 

[JRMcC]

Here this might help: Some kinds of Buddhism include the belief in gods that can help you on your way to nirvana, but these aren't eternal and all powerful gods. They're impermanent and they just exist on a higher level than humans.

I'm arguing that a god like this is not even in the same category as a God concept like that of Allah.

 

[Goblin]

it can be fit into any belief system.

Abrahamics call the "gods" angels/demons, and call the big one "GOD"
Pagans call the gods "gods", and call the big one "Kaos, Brahman, Tao, Great Spirit, etc."

depending on your religion either the spirits or the absolute could be called god.

 

[JRMcC]

that people assert that GOD has to the maximum degree.

Yes indeed, many theists attribute qualities to God that a typical god has. But listen to today's arguments for God. It's essentially a philosophical argument, and the belief in it's existence is more a way of understanding the Universe and its metaphysics than anything else. That's way different from believing there are gods having an argument in the sky when there's thunder. Do you agree?

 

[JRMcC]

I don't like to speak for others, but my interpretation and belief is that the gods are not all-powerful beings: they are not omnipresent, omniscient or omnipotent. That's a pretty common belief in polytheistic religions. I'd say the one exception is Hinduism; "... With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe." Bhagavad Gita 10.42

Hi Thorbjorn, I've spoken with you about your beliefs a bit and I do have a general understanding. Give me a little bit and when I have the time I'll clarify why I've been talking about polytheism in the way I have in this particular thread.

BTW I don't think that even Hinduism is polytheistic in the way conventional wisdom says it is.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Here this might help: Some kinds of Buddhism include the belief in gods that can help you on your way to nirvana, but these aren't eternal and all powerful gods. They're impermanent and they just exist on a higher level than humans.

I'm arguing that a god like this is not even in the same category as a God concept like that of Allah.

The fact that you can (and in the OP did) differentiate by capitalization in the one case and lowercase otherwise is one way of specifying these differences of category.
In my initial response, I tried to highlight how they can exist in one category (deity) while having different degrees of the traits that are used to define the category.
Yes, Poseidon falls into the same category as the "Gods" in some kinds of Buddhism that you note--not eternal, not all powerful, just on a different level than humans--and a different level from the universal omnimax God, if it does exist.

In recent discussions in other threads, I've repeatedly run into posters who argue against or are atheist toward the universal deity concept, and may ignore the "lesser" deities entirely or dismiss them as "merely" advanced aliens of some sort--not the omnimax GOD and therefore don't need to specifically address/respond to assertions of their existence. But the presence of partially-max deities really does need some consideration and response, especially considering their possible origins.

Yet, as @Thorbjorn notes, not everyone thinks of the lesser gods as "needing" to be omniscient, etc., in order to be deities, gods. Polytheists it seems in general do not have the issue you seem to be raising, except when talking with people who are busy trying to fit everything into categories where multiple terms and concepts might be more appropriate.

 

[Jainarayan]

BTW I don't think that even Hinduism is polytheistic in the way conventional wisdom says it is.

I'm iffy about it too.

 

[George-ananda]

. I always find it annoying when atheists say "I don't believe in any kind of god" because I think they're confusing two very different things.

I understand your annoyance. They are thinking only in a dualistic way. Brahman is not a 'god' as they infer it; it is the base of everything; Consciousness. Many atheists don't really understand what pantheists are trying to say and call it 'belief in some god'.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Yes indeed, many theists attribute qualities to God that a typical god has. But listen to today's arguments for God. It's essentially a philosophical argument, and the belief in it's existence is more a way of understanding the Universe and its metaphysics than anything else. That's way different from believing there are gods having an argument in the sky when there's thunder. Do you agree?

Yes, I agree. But in reference to the discussions about God, I'm increasingly finding that the terms and arguments are irrelevant to me. I recognize that there may be deities as various belief systems advance, but I am agnostic about them; I don't do deities right now, and the focus on the proposed omnimax deity is of intellectual but little other importance to me.

 

[AlchemicalSoul]

God vs. god - I'm wondering of others see the difference.

Poseidon is a god. Allah is the God. God is the cause of all things, the ground of existence, and according to some is all knowing and all powerful. A god is a high being with certain kinds of powers. I always find it annoying when atheists say "I don't believe in any kind of god" because I think they're confusing two very different things.

Yes gods can, in some ways be compared to fairies or whatever. But the concept of God cannot. I think that the belief in God is at its core a way of understanding the human experience, not a belief that some guy exists.

I would also argue two things:

1. Having multiple Gods is like having a square circle.

2. One can believe in gods and be a non-theist or an atheist.

Do you guys know what I mean? I'd rather go into more detail in conversation than put up a wall of text.

Share your thoughts if you'd like!

- James

Just because you want to believe that your specific deity is special, that does not mean that the concept will change because you want it to.

Here is how I use god vs God.

I use the word god/goddess/gods/goddesses when referring to no deity in particular.
Example: Most cultures have had a mother goddess.

I use the word God/Goddess when referring to a specific deity.
Example: The Goddess Aradia forbids animal sacrifices.

 

[AlchemicalSoul]

I don't like to speak for others, but my interpretation and belief is that the gods are not all-powerful beings: they are not omnipresent, omniscient or omnipotent. That's a pretty common belief in polytheistic religions. I'd say the one exception is Hinduism; "... With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe." Bhagavad Gita 10.42

Hinduism is more Pantheistic than Polytheistic.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Just because you want to believe that your specific deity is special, that does not mean that the concept will change because you want it to.

Here is how I use god vs God.

I use the word god/goddess/gods/goddesses when referring to no deity in particular.
Example: Most cultures have had a mother goddess.

I use the word God/Goddess when referring to a specific deity.
Example: The Goddess Aradia forbids animal sacrifices.

Whereas I, on the other hand, use them like this:

The god worshipped by the Abrahamic religions is called 'God' in numerous languages. God is, as gods go, markedly different from the gods of the Greeks, the Romans or the Phoenicians. He stands alone, above all others and is a jealous god who won't tolerate any rivals.

That's the problem with Pagans. There's almost never a universally agreed upon position on anything.

 

[Jainarayan]

Hinduism is more Pantheistic than Polytheistic.

They're not mutually exclusive. One can say Heathenry is pantheistic too because everything has an origin in divinity. http://norse-mythology.org/concepts/pantheism/ But Heathenry is unquestionably polytheistic.