God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!

[outhouse]

You have one, surely, too

I dislike people perverting reality by throwing out all credible academic knowledge due to mythology they know nothing at all about.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Except that there are no Hebrew version of Gilgamesh in which the hero seek out Noah, eg in Genesis.

Two, the Babylonian narrative wasn't derivative of Genesis, but the other way around. Genesis only appeared in the 1st millennium Iron Age, perhaps as early as the 9th century BCE (J-source), but certainly from 7th century BCE onward (E-source early 7th century BCE; D-source late 7th century BCE; P-source 6th century and 5th century BCE).

Where as (A) the Sumerian Ziusudra have been around the 2nd half of 3rd millennium BCE, (B) Old Babylonian Atrahasis has been around since 19th or 18th century BCE, (C) mid-2nd millennium BCE (to 1st century BCE) Middle Babylonian Utnapishtim.

Tablets of Gilgamesh have been found in Sumerian poems, and Old Babylonian tablets, all the way to time of Neo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian periods. There have never been complete Bronze Age tablets discovered, but when you compared the Standard Version from Neo-Assyrian tablets from the Library of Nineveh to all the fragments of the 2nd millennium Bronze Age tablets, you would see that they are almost word-for-word the same, indicated that Old Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh most likely have the almost identical contents and styles as that of later Standard Version, whether the Flood hero be named Atrahasis or Utanapishtim.

It is during the Middle Babylonian period that story of Gilgamesh and the Flood had spread outside of Mesopotamia, and clay tablets (fragments) were found in Egypt (city of Amarna that was built by Amenhotep IV, better known as Atkenaten, 1353 - 1336 BCE), Hattusa (Old Hittite Kingdom), in the city of Ugarit (Ras Shamra) and in the Canaanite city of Megiddo, all dated to between 16th and 14th centuries BCE, long before the historical existence of Israel.

The only historical evidence to Bronze Age Israel is from the Egyptian inscriptions on the Merneptah (1213 - 1203 BCE), son of Ramesses II, from the New Kingdom 19th dynasty.

There are no evidences to support monotheism in Bronze Age Canaan. The Hebrew god by the name of El, only exist in 8th or 7th century BCE, but it originated from Bronze Age Canaan, Syria and Ugarit, during the 2nd millennium BCE.

You really don't know what you are talking about, when you say the Babylonian epics were derivative of Genesis. Genesis didn't exist when Ziusudra first appeared. There are no evidences to support any Bronze Age Hebrew Noah, as written tradition or as oral tradition.

Yes, you can look up both the Gilgamesh hero search for the forebears and also the dating of the accounts. However, in literary criticism we would take the far more detailed and sophisticated narrative as the original.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I dislike people perverting reality by throwing out all credible academic knowledge due to mythology they know nothing at all about.

I appreciate science and history. I know the Bible record well. But you are continuing to mistake the questioning of scientific assumptions made on ancient data with "throwing out all credible academic knowledge". And it's the use of the word "all" that typifies you as either ignorant of science or an hysteric. Not "all" academics agree with everything you have asserted and continue to assert.

 

[outhouse]

in literary criticism we would take the far more detailed and sophisticated narrative as the original.

I have seen no evidence you know the first thing about credible criticism, you would get a phd in denial and refusal of credible knowledge though.

 

[metis]

Yes, you can look up both the Gilgamesh hero search for the forebears and also the dating of the accounts. However, in literary criticism we would take the far more detailed and sophisticated narrative as the original.

Except the Babylonian narrative predates our writing of Genesis by around 1000 years. Also, our area (eretz Israel) was not a flood zone but Babylon certainly had it's share of flooding.

 

[outhouse]

I appreciate science and history.

No you do not. You only accept a personal perverted version, throwing out what every credible university teaches on the topic.

. I know the Bible record well

You know the mythology and rhetoric and apologetic rhetoric, but not the credible biblical records.

Not "all" academics agree with everything you have asserted and continue to assert.

You would be factually in error.

Its why you have no sources ever, to substantiate any claims you make. Because there are not any

 

[BilliardsBall]

Except the Babylonian narrative predates our writing of Genesis by around 1000 years. Also, our area (eretz Israel) was not a flood zone but Babylon certainly had it's share of flooding.

And what are you citing as a date for the authorship of Genesis?

 

[BilliardsBall]

No you do not. You only accept a personal perverted version, throwing out what every credible university teaches on the topic.



You know the mythology and rhetoric and apologetic rhetoric, but not the credible biblical records.



You would be factually in error.

Its why you have no sources ever, to substantiate any claims you make. Because there are not any

Please don't take this as hubris, but I guarantee I know the Bible 20 times better than you. I can defend what I believe. You cannot defend what you believe but rather, can merely attack me, my intellect and what I believe. Repent!

 

[outhouse]

Babylon certainly had it's share of flooding.

So much so, that recent archeologist have claim the origin to noahs mythology lies in multiple flood on the Euphrates instead of one regional food.

channel 6 did a special through NOVA showing history though the Akkadian version, and they even built a large round boat.


I have better arguments for a single Euphrates river flood for the origins however as the Sumerian version is hair older with Ziusudra, and soon after the flood of 2900 BC we see river flood mythology develop after the devastation to the city a long its banks EXACTLY when Ziusudra is said to have become king.

 

[outhouse]

And what are you citing as a date for the authorship of Genesis?

It evolved into its current state, but reflects the 5th and 6th century Israelite theological needs during and after exile.

 

[outhouse]

I know the Bible 20 times better than you

I teach it at a college? and studied at universities.

You refuse academia where? at a church

I have seen no credible biblical knowledge from you. I have never seen a credible YEC to date.

Why do ALL credible universities world wide, teach the exact opposite of all your claims.

 

[metis]

And what are you citing as a date for the authorship of Genesis?

Most scholars say around the 6th century b.c.e. or later, but it's possible that at least some of the oral tradition may predate that.

Gotta go.

 

[outhouse]

. I can defend what I believe

But unlike YOU, I can defend what I write here.

YOU have not written a credible sentence since this thread began.

 

[outhouse]

Most scholars say around the 6th century b.c.e. or later, but it's possible that at least some of the oral tradition may predate that.

Gotta go.

Correct compilation date, and collection dates are different for these text that evolved from multiple traditions and cultures

 

[outhouse]

The world has moved past mythological explanations for nature.


We are just watching some fundamentalist wallow in denial to the point of absurdity, at this point in time.

 

[gnostic]

Yes, you can look up both the Gilgamesh hero search for the forebears and also the dating of the accounts. However, in literary criticism we would take the far more detailed and sophisticated narrative as the original.

I have read the epic of Gilgamesh - from the translation of the 8th century Standard Version (SV), to the number of fragments from Old Babylonian versions (OBV) and from the Middle Babylonian versions (MBV). I have also read the 5 Sumerian poems of Gilgames.

I have also read the Sumerian Eridu Genesis (about Ziusudra, but no Gilgames) and the Old Babylonian Epic of Atrahasis (again no Gilgamesh).

I have read a number of other Sumerian, Akkadian and Babylonian literature that had nothing to do with Gilgamesh or with Ziusudra/Atrahasis/Utanapishtim.

And I am very well aware of the datings of each fragment or whole tablets.

What I haven't read is any literary criticism of Mesopotamian literature. Don't have time for them (or money to buy) literary criticism, because I preferred to read, research and investigate translations of literature, myself.

I have half-dozen translations to Mesopotamian literature, as my own collection of books, and 3 times that in Kindle format or photocopy that I have made from the State Library. And if need be, I can find translations from the web, like ETCSL (the Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature).

None of these are literary criticisms.

And there is nothing really original about Genesis creation and flood narratives, since it was composed during the Iron Age, where as origins of Gilgamesh and Ziusudra-Utnapishtim predated by nearly 2000 years.

 

[prometheus11]

I teach it at a college? and studied at universities.

You refuse academia where? at a church

I have seen no credible biblical knowledge from you. I have never seen a credible YEC to date.

Why do ALL credible universities world wide, teach the exact opposite of all your claims.

I believe that there are two accredited bible colleges in the us that still teach YEC, but I am not sure. (In other words, they give "regular" degrees as well as theological degrees).

 

[outhouse]

I believe that there are two accredited bible colleges in the us that still teach YEC, but I am not sure. (In other words, they give "regular" degrees as well as theological degrees).

Might be a few more. Studied their classes a few years ago.

Accredited or not, they have no credibility though. They do not teach real biology.

 

[Sapiens]

https://answersingenesis.org/colleges/colleges-and-universities/

 

[outhouse]

https://answersingenesis.org/colleges/colleges-and-universities/

I thought there was some 40-50

But yep, most are biblical schools, that hold no credibility for many aspects.


Poor kids getting robbed of a real education.