God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!

[Salvador]

The Grand Canyon certainly was not created by a flood as can rather easily be seen by the fact that the Colorado River cut and continues to cut its way through. A hypothetical worldwide flood would not have that same effect on the soft sandstone. There simply was never such a flood, and those who insist that there was one simply miss the messages of that narrative.

If there were a global flood, then I suppose it would have disrupted/melted polar ice. I suppose then that Antarctic ice cores formed with over 1 million annual layers also seem to suggest that there hasn't been a global flood anytime throughout human history.

 

[Salvador]

I dont take the words of scientists. Only the words of Allah swt and his messenger pbuh.

Don't you go to a doctor when you're sick? Non-Islamic medical scientists, unlike Allah, have cured deadly diseases like smallpox or polio. What diseases has Allah cured?

 

[outhouse]

Don't you go to a doctor when you're sick? Non-Islamic medical scientists, unlike Allah, have cured deadly diseases like smallpox or polio. What diseases has Allah cured?

Its word salad with no real thought put forth. Just proselytizing their faith as usual.

 

[outhouse]

There's simply not enough water in the Earth's water cycle that could cause a global flood.

Yes but it has never been about logic or reason.

 

[jonathan180iq]

There's 47,000,000 cubic kilometers of water in the Earth's water cycle that is in the form of continental ice, snow, underground water and water vapor. The surface of the Earth is 510,000,000 kilometers. If all the Earth's continental ice and snow were to melt at the same time that all the Earth's underground water were to surface simultaneously along with all the Earth's atmospheric water vapor liquefying to its surface, then the Earth's sea level would rise about 90 meters or 300 feet. The world's tallest mountain is 29,000 feet. A 300 feet increase in sea level would come nowhere close to submerging Mount Everest. According to an elevation map of the world, over 90 percent of the world's land mass is more than 300 feet above sea level; therefore, there is not even enough water in all of the Earth's water cycle that could have been used to submerge only 10 percent of the Earth's current land mass. There's simply not enough water in the Earth's water cycle that could cause a global flood.

Obviously.

 

[Salvador]

See my multiple earlier posts re: "son of" and foolish assumptions made using genealogy. Of course, half the people here say the Bible stories are allegory and then shove their interpretations of the genealogies at us! It sounds like some are saying you are placing exact dating on allegory.

The Bible lists 37 generations from Jesus to Abraham ( Matthew 1:1-17) and 8 generations from Abraham to Noah's son Shem ( Genesis 11:10-26)

 

[jonathan180iq]

Homer does not include predictive prophecy that was fulfilled, say, in 1948 or 1967! Studying prophecy convinces me that Jesus is the Messiah and the Bible, the true Word of God.

The Oracle of Delphi is reported to have made several very precise predictive statements which were fulfilled. Does that mean the Oracle of Delphi is worthy of adoration and long-term religious devotion?

Look, if it's your personal faith, that's absolutely fine. I'm not attacking your faith. But I do have a problem with you professing knowledge of things, or making claims about scientific discoveries which are simply factually inaccurate.

I will suggest, just as personal advice, that your faith will be freer to grow once you let go of all of these attempts at trying to make them fit into a literal understanding which was most likely never intended.

 

[BilliardsBall]

These text were collections of collection compiled and redacted so many times, you cannot date the book correctly without explaining it evolved and then try and attribute a finished date.

But im sitting here trying to explain academically someone who refuses most of it.

Thank you for stating a fact for once. Yes, this is what academics teach. No, there is no textual evidence that the NT was changed or the OT beyond circa 250 BCE. Not at all. Again, I'm talking about the NT, not apocrypha that has always been held to be apocrypha, that is, false writing.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I know the generations that the Bible lists. I've given a prime example where it may mean alternately direct descendant or notable descendant from among multiple generations.

I'm aware of ice core dating suppositions and methods. I'm aware that seven feet of snowfall per annum would also make the snow caps miles thick after mere millennia.

I'm aware that there currently isn't enough known water to Flood the Earth at the present heights of geologic landmasses. (The Flood was a catastrophe that "shook the Earth".)

Does anyone have anything new re: the Flood or must I sit here and listen to skeptical canards over and again? It's a little boring.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Does anyone have anything new re: the Flood or must I sit here and listen to skeptical canards over and again? It's a little boring.

You're not yet accustomed to listening to flood skepticism despite the fact that there is no evidence to support your position that it was literal? That's a little odd.

I'm aware that seven feet of snowfall per annum would also make the snow caps miles thick after mere millennia.

Is there any evidence anywhere which suggests that this is a possibility? 7 feet of snowfall is a ridiculous amount of snow, considering that average snowfall for the North Pole is something like 20-30cm... And you would also have to assume that nothing would ever melt. And you'd have to assume that the people actually study ice cores have no idea what they are doing...

This is all still just a huge game of mental hoola-hooping. Surely you see that.

 

[outhouse]

Thank you for stating a fact for once.

But im sitting here trying to explain academically, to someone who refuses most of it. ???


That is a fact?

 

[outhouse]

or the OT beyond circa 250 BCE

Which has nothing at all to do with Genesis or the flood mythology you know nothing about.


Again, if you cannot provide a date for the food it factually did not happen. A date is required.

 

[gnostic]

2 Timothy 3:16,17, & 2 Peter 1:21 explains Gods involvement in the holy scriptures. But with regards evidence of Gods involvement in Genesis and the entire bible, well the evidence is available on a number of levels. Historicity, scientifically, archaeologically, and prophetically I have come to the conclusion from the evidence God most certainly did inspire men to record what he wanted recorded for our prosperity. If after considering the evidence you come to a different conclusion, well that's your business.

First off, if the sources for inspiration are evidences for god, then that would mean that there would be evidences for every single gods and goddesses in the ancient world, from Greece, Egypt, Sumer, India, Japan, etc, because the deities of these religions have been sources of their inspirations.

If inspirations, then anyone writing about ghosts, fairies, elves, dragons, phoenixes, and whatever mythological and fairytale creatures or beings would evidences too.

And if inspirations were equaled to evidences, then I might as well as believe in Asgard and (from Norse myths), or Mordor of Middle-Earth (from The Lord of the Rings) or Hogwarts (from Harry Potter) for places that existed, to be true.

Do you see where I am going with this?

To use inspirations as evidences would be bring whole lots of things we read about as evidences.

Second, if you are talking about the bible naming some real cities and kingdoms within the bible, doesn't mean much as evidences for the existence of your god, nor what they write myths about certain people, like Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, just to name a few, doesn't make the biblical stories to be true.

In Greek, Egyptian and Sumer-Babylonian myths, they named real cities all the time in their traditional stories, but that doesn't make their gods or their myths to be true.

Two of mine all-time favourite books are - The Iliad and The Odyssey. Homer named many cities and kingdoms in Greece and in Asia Minor that were real, including that of Troy, Argos, Pylos, Knossos, Ithaca, etc, all of which did exist in the Bronze Age, as well as in his time. He also named kings to these kingdoms and cities, but does that make the stories real?

Many people today write fiction, giving details of cities in which the stories are set in. The cities may be real, but stories and characters are more likely fictional.

You have no way to link your God to cities or kingdoms, because the god-part, is merely YOU projecting your belief and faith in a book full of myths to actual location, doesn't make it "archaeological" evidences for the existence of your god, PERIOD!

Evidences are something that you can verify to be TRUE or FALSE, and there are no evidences for actual god to exist. What you do have evidences is that there are religion(s) that you have built around this particular god, but no evidences for the god, and none for heaven and hell, angels and demons. All the deities, angels and demons, are just superstitious BELIEF - nothing more, nothing less.

Lastly, there are no (scientific or archaeological) evidences for Genesis' 6-day creation, or man being made out of dust or soil of the earth, the flood, or Tower of Babel (in which mankind spoke only one language one day, and many languages the next), the life and adventures of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the mass-exodus of Israelite out of Egypt and their invasion of Canaan (in book of Joshua), etc. All of these are myths.

As to Jesus, there may have been a teacher who roam about Galilee and Judaea, as being a real person, but all those miracles (including the last one - the resurrection) the gospels claimed to have witnessed, seemed highly unlikely, and may have turn possibly a real person to that of legend status. Jesus may have taught his disciples and to the public in parables, but the miracles seemed to be just make-believe hoaxes, created by people who may have never met the real Jesus.

This "people" I am referring to, are the authors of accepted gospels in the New Testament. The gospels were written anonymously, but in the 2nd century Christians have attributed names and traditions to the gospels. We don't know who the real authors to those gospels are, but it is highly unlikely they met the real historical Jesus.

I think your problem is that just because it was written in the bible, you think the scriptures are telling you the truth.

 

[gnostic]

What about Flood Legends?

Such a cataclysm as the Deluge, which washed the whole world of that time out of existence, would never be forgotten by the survivors. They would talk about it to their children and their children’s children. For 500 years after the Deluge, Shem lived on to relate the event to many generations.

Except that the Sumerian have oral tradition about river flood that predated even my calculation of timeline of the bible (1656 AM from the Masoretic, to 2268 BCE).

The tablets of this tradition in which Ziusudra, the original of the Flood, can be found in the Eridu Genesis and in the Death of Gilagmes, which have been dated to the 3rd dynasty of Ur (c 2047 to c 1940 BCE).

This dynasty may have been around after the estimated date of Flood (2268 BCE), HOWEVER Ziusudra actually existed in much earlier tablet known as Instructions of Shuruppak, dated to some time in the 1st half of 3rd millennium BCE (about 27th century BCE as the earliest, but most likely in the 26th century BCE). There is no mention of the flood in this tablet, but it does indicate that Ziusudra may have lived a lot earlier than the extant tablet.

And according to Nimrod in Genesis 10, Nimrod was said to have found a number of cities in Sumer and Assyria, and yet the city of Uruk (or Erech in the KJV) have flourished during most of the 4th millennium BCE (before the Sumerian civilisation), but the existence of its foundation go as far back as 6000 BCE. The temples to Inana and An were built between 3500 and 3200 BCE in Uruk, but Genesis 10 tell us the city didn't exist until the late 3rd millennium BCE.

This same chapter in Genesis (10), also stated that Egypt didn't exist until AFTER the Flood, being eponymous to Ham's son. But what of all the pyramids that predated 2268 BCE?

The first dynasty of unified Egypt, date back all the way to its first king, Narmer or Menes, who flourished during 31st century BCE.

This tell me that the Flood is nothing more than myth, as are the Table of Nations in Genesis 10 and the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11, and the Bible is nothing more than garbage when it come to history and archaeology.

In 3rd millennium BCE, Sumer or Babylonia, Sumerian was language of much this time, but the Semitic language of Akkadian started as early as the 29th century BCE, but the language (Akkadian) didn't really flourish in Sumer until the Akkadian Empire (c 2334–2154 BCE). This put a big dent in the Genesis' claim that only one language is spoken before the Flood and the Tower of Babel, IF this mythological Flood had occurred in 2268 BCE.

 

[.kaleb]

You miss the point that allegory typically is meant to read as if it were a true event, which is why the early church struggled with whether Jesus' parables were real events or myths. Also, such symbolism can move forth and be referred to as if a real event.

i understand the teaching aspect to allegories. I think you miss the point with all due respect to what Jesus said in Matthew 24:37-39. He was comparing a future event and the attitudes of those living in that time, with a cataclysmic event, the flood, and the attitudes that were prevalent at that point in time.

What we don't know and that which cannot be determined is whether the authors felt whether this was a real event or was allegory.

2 Peter 2:5 And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people....
• do you honestly believe the apostle Peter was in any doubt as to wether the flood was a real event, or allegory?

But today, it is nonsensical to take it as a real event because the story is preposterous if one takes it that way. To me, anyone who believes this as a real event is so gullible that they probably will be willing to believe in almost anything as long as it's packaged as "scripture". Very little of the story makes sense at that level, but it makes a great deal of sense at the symbolic level.

and reading this my mind is taken to peters words in 2 Peter 3:3-5...First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.”
5 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water.

Many centuries before we knew anything about geology and even basic biology, Jewish sages recognized that there simply too many problems taking it at the literal level, so taking it as allegory is hardly "modernistic" theology. Moshe Maimonides, one of our greatest sages, many centuries ago concluded that it had to be symbolic because it makes no sense to take it literally, and he certainly has not been alone in that thinking.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a mere man who tells lies, Nor a son of man who changes his mind. When he says something, will he not do it? When he speaks, will he not carry it out?
God told Noah what he was going to do, and his word never fails. He had the account recorded, and included eye witness accounts. I take Gods word over mans any day.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It was definitely space aliens, I read about it in a book called "Chariot of the Gods" by Herbert von Danish-pastry, Captain Kirk travels back in time to find some whales.

 

[.kaleb]

That has a simple answer. In a story, any character can lie or tell the truth or fly or do miracles or eat spiders or wear pink in-the-dark-glowing slippers. How do you even know what God said to Noah? The author of the story, the writers of the book, all contributed and were part of putting the story down.

I can only speak for myself, and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that God inspired human secretaries if you like, to record what he wanted recorded for our benefit. The bible is the greatest collection of books ever written. There are billions of copies of the bible in whole or part, in over a 1000 different languages. No book comes close to it in content, practicality, wisdom... It is as it claims, the word of God. As a daily bible reader for over 25 years I can make those statements as a matter of fact.

In the sci-fi book Ringworld, the size of the Ringworld is given to just as specific measurements. Now, that world doesn't exist. It's part of a story. But, how can it be just a story if Larry Niven was so exact with the measurements?

thats up to you to decide.

Have you talked them? Do you know them? What's their names, ages, home address, and what's their favorite food? Do you know anything about them? Do you have their written and signed testimonies?

Jesus address in heaven. Jesus was sinless, he told only truth, and so his word is gospel. Again, I can only speak for myself, so if his written testimony is not good enuf for you, that's not my problem.

Then answer this, Philo from Alexandria was a contemporary religious philosopher to Jesus. He wrote extensively about how Genesis and the flood were allegories. His writings were saved to our time because the early Christians saved them. They considered them important. So how can the early Christians see the importance of considering the Bible stories to be allegorical, and you cannot?

some stories were allegories, like the Good Samaritan for example. However the flood count was real history.

Centuries after it happened the apostle Peter knew that there would be those who deny that part of history, and thus recorded this in 2 Peter 3:5-7 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.

 

[Ouroboros]

I can only speak for myself, and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that God inspired human secretaries if you like, to record what he wanted recorded for our benefit. The bible is the greatest collection of books ever written. There are billions of copies of the bible in whole or part, in over a 1000 different languages. No book comes close to it in content, practicality, wisdom... It is as it claims, the word of God. As a daily bible reader for over 25 years I can make those statements as a matter of fact.

I was a Christian for 30 years. I also went to a Bible school, kind'a like a seminary, for 10 months. And then there were mission trips and such as well. So what. You're not getting the point. And yes, you are speaking for yourself.

thats up to you to decide.

So a story isn't judged to be allegory or factual based on the numerical facts in the story then? Are you backing down on that claim?

Jesus address in heaven. Jesus was sinless, he told only truth, and so his word is gospel. Again, I can only speak for myself, so if his written testimony is not good enuf for you, that's not my problem.

My testimony is that I was born and raised in a Christian home. I gave my life to my belief in Jesus for a majority of my life. I was out knocking doors and evangelizing myself. There's not much you can give me as a testimony. I've heard it all.

some stories were allegories, like the Good Samaritan for example. However the flood count was real history.

That's up to you to decide.

But considering that the geological, anthropological, archeological, biological, and physical evidence contradicts the flood story, we have to conclude, based on objective facts of reality, that the story isn't true. You decide if you want to be irrational or not.

Centuries after it happened the apostle Peter knew that there would be those who deny that part of history, and thus recorded this in 2 Peter 3:5-7 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.

Well, you are deliberately ignoring the fact of the scientific evidence. The science behind that there wasn't a flood is solid. It's a fact that it didn't happen. (The global flood, that is--of course a local flood is well supported.)

 

[BilliardsBall]

All,

1. The lack of (enough) objects found in the Kuiper Belt is the reason why there is an Oort Cloud hypothesis.

2. I believe there was an ice age after the Flood. The ice would not have reached Mesopotamia and so the scriptures records the Flood only. Think about the conditions for an ice age--lots of precipitation churning from warm oceans, cold land masses...

3. The date on the Flood is irrelevant in terms of whether 4,500 or 4.5 Million years ago. You will reject the Flood saying there is no geologic evidence. The dimensions of the mountain ranges themselves and etc. are in part parcel of modern Flood theory. Looking at individual strata instead of wondering where the Marianas trench, the entire thing, hails from--kind of like looking at the entire universe as a scale model and then looking at a few pebbles to "prove" the entire universe is mechanical/random and not designed.

4. Ice Age theory (and I believe in an Ice Age!) is traced to people who saw geologic evidence for water covering most or all the planet and then extrapolating from the data. Ice is made of water.

5. What do you fear? Is it that since over 100 ancient cultures teach the Flood that some religious tradition if not Xianity will be supported?

 

[Ouroboros]

2. I believe there was an ice age after the Flood. The ice would not have reached Mesopotamia and so the scriptures records the Flood only. Think about the conditions for an ice age--lots of precipitation churning from warm oceans, cold land masses...

So, the flood was some hundred thousand years ago? The story has been transferred orally for that long?

3. The date on the Flood is irrelevant in terms of whether 4,500 or 4.5 Million years ago. You will reject the Flood saying there is no geologic evidence. The dimensions of the mountain ranges themselves and etc. are in part parcel of modern Flood theory. Looking at individual strata instead of wondering where the Marianas trench, the entire thing, hails from--kind of like looking at the entire universe as a scale model and then looking at a few pebbles to "prove" the entire universe is mechanical/random and not designed.

Well, if Noah was a Homo sapiens, it must've happened within 150,000 years, since that's about how long H.s. has been on this planet, before that our species didn't exist.

4. Ice Age theory (and I believe in an Ice Age!) is traced to people who saw geologic evidence for water covering most or all the planet and then extrapolating from the data. Ice is made of water.

Except that it lasted for a lot, lot, lot longer than 12 months, and it didn't cover all the mountains either. What you're doing is reinterpreting the story, which is fine, but it also means that you're not reading the story literal (which is also great). But that's exactly the point. The story is not to be take literally or historically accurate. If it was historical accurate, we would have to consider the genealogies and "rain" and "water to actually mean rain and water.