God or LGBTQ+

[Shadow Wolf]

I was a Catholic. The Holy Spirit is God in Christian belief and what's more, He is God making His home within us and sanctifying us (God making His temple within the human heart). That's a big bit more involved than what you're claiming. That sounds like an Evangelical Protestant take.

That's pretty much what I was taught to believe as a Southern Baptist, als that die inside the holy ghost moving and motivating people, even writting the Bible through the people believed to have authored it.

 

[SomeRandom]

You misunderstand....if all God wanted was mindless obedience then he could have created robots to serve him. Think of all the problems that would have avoided! But that is not the way God made us. He gave us his qualities so that we could be fitting representative of him in our role as caretakers of this planet and its inhabitants. He wanted us to take as good a care of this planet as he would....but first we had to learn to drive free will so that it can be the blessing he intended it to be, instead of the curse it became with our imperfection.
.

Well given what we’ve done to the planet, I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one to explain our collective actions.
Yikes!

The things that God wants from his children are love, loyalty and respect.....its what every parent wants from their children....but we cant force our children to love us...we can make them afraid not to obey us, but that is not the same. Christendom paints God as some kind of capricious despot who will roast people alive if he doesn't get his way.....that is not the God I know.

To willingly submit to persecution and death because of our love for someone requires that we have a great depth of love for them. Fear can never make you love anyone....in fact fear works the opposite way. And when you have an enemy who is portraying you as a selfish monster, it is doubly hard to show your goodness. Gratefully God can help us to see past the propaganda put out by the devil....but only if we want to.

Forgive me Deej but aren’t the JWs the ones telling everyone Armageddon is upon us and we will all perish?. A great and terrible purge of human existence. And that only a very select few have the chance of eternal paradise? At least that’s what all the Watchtower mags keep telling me.
Now I’ll grant you, such a prediction is not exactly unique to the JWs. End times in some form or another exists in many religions.
I like to call it the righteous reset button.
But can you at least see that for some people, they will see this as a large stick instead of a carrot, if you’ll forgive the sloppy phrase?

That is what I wanted too...but I never found the grounds for such a connection when I was in Christendom. It was only when I studied the Bible with JW's that I discovered who Jehovah really is.....and that he desires to get to know us, and to reveal himself to us. The person I found was the most wonderful and loving Father I could ever have imagined. He is never demanding, even though he has the same ground-rules that apply to all....none of them are unreasonable. In fact for Christians there are only two laws....'to love God with everything we are (mind heart and soul) and to love our neighbor as ourselves'. You can't apply the second without fulfilling the first. You can't love someone that deeply without first getting to really know them.

And I am happy for you, Deej.
I mean that. Keep fostering your love and your relationship.
I guess I don’t really see “God” as a seperate being. So when I say that I just want that connection, what I mean is, the rules and regulations are barriers for me. Unnecessary stipulations that only create false divides.
But I suppose I speak from a different “foundation” of sorts. So I’m not sure if that translated very well

 

[Earthtank]

Bonus question: How do we know what God wants?

Read his book and follow it since you are a theist.

 

[Earthtank]

I'm an LGBTQ+-supporting theist

how do you reconcile that with your faith? (I'm going to assume you know what Christianity says about that)

 

[Deeje]

Well given what we’ve done to the planet, I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one to explain our collective actions.
Yikes!

Now you know why God has to evict the bad tenants. This earth was provided as a home for humans and a host of other material beings who share this planet with us. If you know the Landlord's rules for your tenancy, and you trash his property, he can serve notice on you to clean up your mess, repair any damage, or face eviction. If you fail to clean up and repair the damage you've done, can you complain when the police turn up to remove you from the property?

The Landlord then gets his property repaired and cleaned up so that it will be a suitable home for his new tenants. I believe that this is the Bible's message for our day. Do you see any real effort to clean up and repair the damage? I don't. Is the Landlord left with any other choice?

Forgive me Deej but aren’t the JWs the ones telling everyone Armageddon is upon us and we will all perish?. A great and terrible purge of human existence. And that only a very select few have the chance of eternal paradise? At least that’s what all the Watchtower mags keep telling me.

Armageddon will come down on those who fail to heed his warning. It's a warning that was issued almost 2,000 years ago. Has he given us enough time to heed it? The Revelation tells us that God will "bring to ruin, those ruining the earth" (Revelation 11:18)....since Jesus promised that the "meek will inherit the earth", there has to be an earth to inherit. Only in this day and age have humans had the capacity to destroy all life on this planet.....with the way world conditions are shaping up, can we trust ego-driven world leaders whilst they all sit on hidden nests of nuclear weapons? Isn't it a choice between which way you might choose to die?

Now I’ll grant you, such a prediction is not exactly unique to the JWs. End times in some form or another exists in many religions.
I like to call it the righteous reset button.

Actually that is a good description.....we saw a "righteous reset" once before......one that Jesus used as an example of what would happen again. (Matthew 24:37-39)
Noah preached a warning to the people for the whole time he was building the ark, but not a soul took his warning seriously, preferring to ridicule the man and his family for warning about something that seemed to be ridiculous. Can you imagine what those ridiculers were thinking when water started rising and their efforts to head for higher ground failed? Was that God's fault? The structure was huge so there was plenty of room for more humans.....yet no one believed Noah until they saw the evidence for themselves....but too late. It wasn't Noah who closed the door of the ark.

But can you at least see that for some people, they will see this as a large stick instead of a carrot, if you’ll forgive the sloppy phrase?

The time for offering carrots is over. This is a time for decisions....
All the things the Bible foretold for these last days has come to pass. We can ignore that evidence....ignore the fact that the fate of all life on this planet is in the hands of irresponsible, greedy people, drunk with their own power and with little concern about what happens after their term of office is over. They retire on a fat pension and the rot continues.

It's time for action....we can choose what God is offering on his terms for our tenancy, or we can face eviction.
It's time for the big stick...and who is in a better position to wield it?

And I am happy for you, Deej.
I mean that. Keep fostering your love and your relationship.
I guess I don’t really see “God” as a seperate being. So when I say that I just want that connection, what I mean is, the rules and regulations are barriers for me. Unnecessary stipulations that only create false divides.

What stipulations do you find unacceptable? What rules and regulations do you see as barriers?

This reminds me of young teenagers who think that they don't need their parent's rules anymore. They chafe and complain about not being able to do as they wish.....but parents know that their maturity level doesn't allow them to see that the rules are there for their protection. Only when they become parents themselves do they understand that love is what prompts those rules.

But I suppose I speak from a different “foundation” of sorts. So I’m not sure if that translated very well

Our foundation is very important.....after all, our whole life's will be built on it. This just reinforces how important it is to provide a good foundation for our kids. That is not to say that they will follow in our footsteps, but good parenting means giving our children reasonable options. I believe that God has always done that. We tend to forget that God's rightful Sovereignty gives him the right to tell us how to live the life he gave to us. But as free willed beings, we have to choose our own path.....every path has a destination, so when we choose our path we naturally choose the destination. Sounds fair to me.....

 

[SomeRandom]

Now you know why God has to evict the bad tenants. This earth was provided as a home for humans and a host of other material beings who share this planet with us. If you know the Landlord's rules for your tenancy, and you trash his property, he can serve notice on you to clean up your mess, repair any damage, or face eviction. If you fail to clean up and repair the damage you've done, can you complain when the police turn up to remove you from the property?

Or the Landlord could turn up, admonish the renter and tell them to "clean their room"
There were memes back when I was in school that was basically Jesus saying, "oh no, i'm not coming back until you lot clear this up!"

The Landlord then gets his property repaired and cleaned up so that it will be a suitable home for his new tenants. I believe that this is the Bible's message for our day. Do you see any real effort to clean up and repair the damage? I don't. Is the Landlord left with any other choice?

Well, fair. But I see a definite effort. I mean have you not been watching the nightly news lately? People are literally rioting in the street over climate change. It's very socially acceptable to advocate for renewable energy, recycling, cleaner living and even reducing farming. Supermarkets are stocking Hemp Burgers, strict vegan/vegetarian restaurants are quite popular among the young. Even Hungry Jacks have "ethically sourced, sustainable" vegan options these days.
Youth are becoming more socially and climate-ly aware. In fact they are downright angry that our so called "elders" have left this earth a mess. Sure our politicians are.......well politicians. But just like I don't judge all Americans by the standards of the Donald (lest we all be judged by the standards set by ScoMo) surely an all loving Father, as you describe, would see our sincere attempts to fight against this trashing of this planet and have some sympathy for our efforts.

Armageddon will come down on those who fail to heed his warning. It's a warning that was issued almost 2,000 years ago. Has he given us enough time to heed it? The Revelation tells us that God will "bring to ruin, those ruining the earth" (Revelation 11:18)....since Jesus promised that the "meek will inherit the earth", there has to be an earth to inherit. Only in this day and age have humans had the capacity to destroy all life on this planet.....with the way world conditions are shaping up, can we trust ego-driven world leaders whilst they all sit on hidden nests of nuclear weapons? Isn't it a choice between which way you might choose to die?

I trust our (heh) honourable world leaders about as far as I can throw them. In saying that, the Orange has been in charge of the "Free World" for a few years and nuclear apocalypse is yet to occur. So I say I hold some modicum of hope that this will remain a stalemate for at least a few more presidents. I mean the Ruskies have been postulating since the 50s and at this point it's all starting to look like "crying wolf."

Actually that is a good description.....we saw a "righteous reset" once before......one that Jesus used as an example of what would happen again. (Matthew 24:37-39)
Noah preached a warning to the people for the whole time he was building the ark, but not a soul took his warning seriously, preferring to ridicule the man and his family for warning about something that seemed to be ridiculous. Can you imagine what those ridiculers were thinking when water started rising and their efforts to head for higher ground failed? Was that God's fault? The structure was huge so there was plenty of room for more humans.....yet no one believed Noah until they saw the evidence for themselves....but too late. It wasn't Noah who closed the door of the ark.

Well God could have just, I dunno, given evidence he knew would be particularly persuasive to people instead of well someone who would be mocked. Though that seems to be his deal as far as Christianity is concerned. Looking at you Big J.

The time for offering carrots is over. This is a time for decisions....
All the things the Bible foretold for these last days has come to pass. We can ignore that evidence....ignore the fact that the fate of all life on this planet is in the hands of irresponsible, greedy people, drunk with their own power and with little concern about what happens after their term of office is over. They retire on a fat pension and the rot continues.

It's time for action....we can choose what God is offering on his terms for our tenancy, or we can face eviction.
It's time for the big stick...and who is in a better position to wield it?

Forgive me, but this has been predicted since before my Grandparents were born.
Probably before Moses' grandparents were born. It's almost become a game in and of itself.

What stipulations do you find unacceptable? What rules and regulations do you see as barriers?

Asking otherwise benign consenting adults to literally repress their humanity is a bit unacceptable to me. I mean sure, if one wishes to be like a monk or something, more power to ya. But not everyone can do that, nor should they be required to.
Theft, murder, drugs, etc these are things where one can use reality in order to justify their regulations. Homosexuality? Seems a bit random.
Though I guess shellfish were also abominations, so I dunno, maybe randomly arbitrary has precedence.

I mean you want to talk regulations? Our traditional wedding ceremonies last longer than most Hollywood marriages. We even joke that the Honeymooning couple need at least two trips. One to get some sleep after the ceremony and then the actual honeymoon can take place.

This reminds me of young teenagers who think that they don't need their parent's rules anymore. They chafe and complain about not being able to do as they wish.....but parents know that their maturity level doesn't allow them to see that the rules are there for their protection. Only when they become parents themselves do they understand that love is what prompts those rules.

Ironically I never really had any rules. Apart from basic ethical values, obviously. Respect, integrity, honour, hard work etc. But I stopped chafing under my parents' rules once I started Uni and went out into the world. I just do what I do.

Our foundation is very important.....after all, our whole life's will be built on it. This just reinforces how important it is to provide a good foundation for our kids. That is not to say that they will follow in our footsteps, but good parenting means giving our children reasonable options. I believe that God has always done that. We tend to forget that God's rightful Sovereignty gives him the right to tell us how to live the life he gave to us. But as free willed beings, we have to choose our own path.....every path has a destination, so when we choose our path we naturally choose the destination. Sounds fair to me.....

Sure, solid foundation for the younglings.

Still seems a little petty for a divine immortal being to micromanage his creation like that. It all starts to sound like a game.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

An English language term for someone who, rather than following conversative teaching, seeks out the truth and lets the chips fall where they may with no disrespect intended - either winding up being looked at as heretical or a pioneer by means of taking a progressive religion progressively.

A seeker? That's the term I would have used, colloquial as it is.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The ever increasing number of sexual designations is secular in origin and is driven by mass media. It is based on willpower and conformity and is sort of a hybrid between an addiction and tattooing.

As an analogy, people use body art to customize their skin into something they were not born with. There is no body art or body tattoo gene that drives this need to change decoration. However, there can be need and/or a compulsion to make this change, so it looks natural to them.

This change is partially for themselves and partially a way to establish a unique identity in the group. This unique aspect is why the variety of sexual orientation tattoos is increasing; personality tattoo. If it was natural it would not have to be sold so hard, nor would it require everyone have to play the game whether you agree of not. There is unconscious doubt, so forced conformity, to the rules of the game are needed to compensate.

I mean, if it was natural, it would have been happening all through human history, and well before there was a concept of 'mass media', I guess. Or we'd see it in the animal kingdom. Right?

 

[OldTimeNESter]

I mean, if it was natural, it would have been happening all through human history, and well before there was a concept of 'mass media', I guess. Or we'd see it in the animal kingdom. Right?

I can't post the link, but go to Youtube and search for "zeFrank true facts about the duck" for a hilarious video mentioning a confirmed case of homosexual necrophilia by a male duck.

 

[Etritonakin]

Biblically.... God INTENDED that humans should be distinctly male and female. That distinction is by arrangement of natural things which can be affected -just as any other natural thing may be affected.

The commandment concerning adultery -male/female monogamy and refraining from pre/extramarital sex -is based on that originally-intended state -which can be altered. It is unique in that it is based on the state of an individual.
Similarly -to a degree, marriage is also based on the state of an individual (until death of one or the other -later, gender will not be an issue).

On an outwardly-physical level, for example, how might a hermaphrodite be advised to keep the commandment and marry?
Are they male or female?

(though I do not believe the bible states Adam and Eve were the first humanoids on Earth -but the first with the potential to become immortal -and believe in evolution as a means of creation along with direct creative activity)....
"Male and female created he them" -but he also "gave the creation over to futility in hope".
Part of that hope is understanding and acceptance of persons rather than temporary states!

Few would claim that hermaphroditism is an ideal state -but the same may apply to physiological things which are not as outwardly-apparent.

Biblical scripture speaks against distinct males and females engaging in sexual acts with the same sex -but where there is TRULY some sort of non-binary issue, the commandment should be applied as possible -regardless -but especially for those of a mind to do so.