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God or LGBTQ+

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Homosexuality is not a choice. One's sexual orientation is usually genetic and with the way the world is at present, exposed to all manner of hormone disrupting chemicals, its no wonder that people are hormonally confused.
LGBTQ lifestyles are not condoned in the Bible. You can be a practicing homosexual OR a Christian

Hope you are having a great day! @Deeje

Just wanted to ask...

Let's say someone is so exposed to environmental wrongs (estrogen in the water, etc), they couldn't possibly come back to a cis and/or straight way of living. What if they are miserable the way they are, and want to try an LGBTQ+ way of life?

As for my own stance on this topic, don't worry about it too much. I'm not going to go out of my way to display that I'm an LGBTQ+-supporting theist, just wanted to ask a question on LGBTQ+ through more of a religious, instead of a political, lens. Kind of a topic to allow the non-LGBTQ+ religious people to speak if they have something real to say, instead of them having to say it on the pro-LGBTQ+ support threads.

You may be right that I'm not fully Christian in that I consider Christianity one puzzle piece, and find the heart of the faith I've discovered, Baha'I, to be more about an approach of acceptance of all beliefs even through the ideas on afterlife. Note that I'm saying I find it more compatible, but not 100% compatible, with LGBTQ+. Some of the philosophies behind Baha'i faith itself.

Bonus question: How do we know what God wants?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Hope you are having a great day! @Deeje

Just wanted to ask...

Let's say someone is so exposed to environmental wrongs (estrogen in the water, etc), they couldn't possibly come back to a cis and/or straight way of living. What if they are miserable the way they are, and want to try an LGBTQ+ way of life?

As for my own stance on this topic, don't worry about it too much. I'm not going to go out of my way to display that I'm an LGBTQ+-supporting theist, just wanted to ask a question on LGBTQ+ through more of a religious, instead of a political, lens. Kind of a topic to allow the non-LGBTQ+ religious people to speak if they have something real to say, instead of them having to say it on the pro-LGBTQ+ support threads.

You may be right that I'm not fully Christian in that I consider Christianity one puzzle piece, and find the heart of the faith I've discovered, Baha'I, to be more about an approach of acceptance of all beliefs even through the ideas on afterlife. Note that I'm saying I find it more compatible, but not 100% compatible, with LGBTQ+. Some of the philosophies behind Baha'i faith itself.

Bonus question: How do we know what God wants?

Humans actually do not 'know,' but nonetheless the universal vastness evolving nature of our existence both physically and spiritually beyond any one religion or belief system makes if problematic for me to believe there is only one shoe that fits, as some religions believe.

. . . more to follow . . .
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Basically, because ultimately positions such as Deeje's are the ones with Biblical support and backing, I have never understood how a homosexuality could be Christian, and how Amy of them can ignore that fact Jehovah said they are to be executed, and Jesus did say he changed nothing of the Law. And Paul wasn't very fond of it either. At best there is Jesus who said nothing. But he also failed to mention pedophiles. Not military leaders, although Jesus is portrayed as having treated one no differently than anyone else. But Jehovah Law is still has law, those who say it doesn't apply or lessen it will be counted among the least.
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Homosexuality and the Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

Homosexual Bahá'ís
New converts
Individuals with a same-sex orientation are not prevented from entering the religion and joining in community life; however, someone involved in a same-sex marriage or union will be prevented from registering as a Bahá'í.[15] Like other Abrahamic religions, Bahá'í teachings make a distinction between those who have a same-sex attraction and those who practice homosexual relations.[16]

The faith's guidelines recommend not emphasizing Bahá'í standards of conduct to new believers, but gradually introducing the idea of fully accepting all Bahá'í practices.[17][18] Spiritual Assemblies, the local elected bodies that manage the affairs of the religion, are instructed to act patiently and persuade members to accept principles inwardly and “out of pure conviction and desire.”[19] Although Bahá'ís are forbidden to have sexual relationships outside of marriage, heterosexual or homosexual, new converts who are already engaged in such a relationship will be expected to make a sincere effort to conform to the Bahá'í teachings over a period of time.[12]
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Homosexuality and the Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

Homosexual Bahá'ís
New converts
Individuals with a same-sex orientation are not prevented from entering the religion and joining in community life; however, someone involved in a same-sex marriage or union will be prevented from registering as a Bahá'í.[15] Like other Abrahamic religions, Bahá'í teachings make a distinction between those who have a same-sex attraction and those who practice homosexual relations.[16]

The faith's guidelines recommend not emphasizing Bahá'í standards of conduct to new believers, but gradually introducing the idea of fully accepting all Bahá'í practices.[17][18] Spiritual Assemblies, the local elected bodies that manage the affairs of the religion, are instructed to act patiently and persuade members to accept principles inwardly and “out of pure conviction and desire.”[19] Although Bahá'ís are forbidden to have sexual relationships outside of marriage, heterosexual or homosexual, new converts who are already engaged in such a relationship will be expected to make a sincere effort to conform to the Bahá'í teachings over a period of time.[12]

The problem I see is in the lack of existence of a English language term.

I'm Baha'I in accepting Baha'ullah, the message, and the teachings.

I'm not Baha'i in accepting religious organization tradition. That much tends to change over time, at a slower rate than society, and may not be in 50 years what it is now.
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
The problem I see is in the lack of existence of a English language term.

(a My post was just an "FYI heads up", without my commentary.
(b) Re: your comment above. "an English language term for what"? Homosexuality? :)

I'm Baha'I in accepting Baha'ullah, the message, and the teachings. I'm not Baha'i in accepting religious organization tradition. That much tends to change over time, at a slower rate than society, and may not be in 50 years what it is now.

Lotsa luck with that.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
(a My post was just an "FYI heads up", without my commentary.
(b) Re: your comment above. "an English language term for what"? Homosexuality? :)



Lot'sa luck with that.

An English language term for someone who, rather than following conversative teaching, seeks out the truth and lets the chips fall where they may with no disrespect intended - either winding up being looked at as heretical or a pioneer by means of taking a progressive religion progressively.
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
An English language term for someone who, rather than following conversative teaching, seeks out the truth and lets the chips fall where they may with no disrespect intended - either winding up being looked at as heretical or a pioneer by means of taking a progressive religion progressively.

Ahh, ... seeker? Seekers Circle
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I'm of the mind that if you wait for a whole religion to adopt something, you'll be waiting a long time. For example, let's say I think atheists should be shown the love. I'll show it, I won't wait for religion to catch up.
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
I do think it's time for another manifestation of God, though. That'll clear such things up.

Well, if one shows up, he/she/it won't be Baha'i, if I have it right. The Kitab-i-Aqdas says there won't be another for a thousand years.


Screenshot_2019-10-30 The Kitáb-i-Aqdas Bahá’í Reference Library.png
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Hope you are having a great day! @Deeje

Just wanted to ask...

Let's say someone is so exposed to environmental wrongs (estrogen in the water, etc), they couldn't possibly come back to a cis and/or straight way of living. What if they are miserable the way they are, and want to try an LGBTQ+ way of life?

As for my own stance on this topic, don't worry about it too much. I'm not going to go out of my way to display that I'm an LGBTQ+-supporting theist, just wanted to ask a question on LGBTQ+ through more of a religious, instead of a political, lens. Kind of a topic to allow the non-LGBTQ+ religious people to speak if they have something real to say, instead of them having to say it on the pro-LGBTQ+ support threads.

You may be right that I'm not fully Christian in that I consider Christianity one puzzle piece, and find the heart of the faith I've discovered, Baha'I, to be more about an approach of acceptance of all beliefs even through the ideas on afterlife. Note that I'm saying I find it more compatible, but not 100% compatible, with LGBTQ+. Some of the philosophies behind Baha'i faith itself.

Bonus question: How do we know what God wants?
The best you can do is to follow your heart, Are your goal of knowing God more important than the sexual preferences?
God speaks about being gay/lesbian as something one is born as, But God condemns the sexual act of two people of the same sex. A lot of religions today have rewritten this part of their scriptures, to fit the people and not God.

Amanaki have no longer any view of what others should do or should not do in this matter, You are the one who must do your chose :) just follow your heart and you find your way :)
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
Hope you are having a great day! @Deeje

Just wanted to ask...

Let's say someone is so exposed to environmental wrongs (estrogen in the water, etc), they couldn't possibly come back to a cis and/or straight way of living. What if they are miserable the way they are, and want to try an LGBTQ+ way of life?

As for my own stance on this topic, don't worry about it too much. I'm not going to go out of my way to display that I'm an LGBTQ+-supporting theist, just wanted to ask a question on LGBTQ+ through more of a religious, instead of a political, lens. Kind of a topic to allow the non-LGBTQ+ religious people to speak if they have something real to say, instead of them having to say it on the pro-LGBTQ+ support threads.

You may be right that I'm not fully Christian in that I consider Christianity one puzzle piece, and find the heart of the faith I've discovered, Baha'I, to be more about an approach of acceptance of all beliefs even through the ideas on afterlife. Note that I'm saying I find it more compatible, but not 100% compatible, with LGBTQ+. Some of the philosophies behind Baha'i faith itself.

Bonus question: How do we know what God wants?


There has been a lot of very interesting research on this! One large, recent study concluded: "there is no gay gene."

"Ganna and his colleagues also used the analysis to estimate that up to 25% of sexual behaviour can be explained by genetics, with the rest influenced by environmental and cultural factors — a figure similar to the findings of smaller studies."

No ‘gay gene’: Massive study homes in on genetic basis of human sexuality
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
There has been a lot of very interesting research on this! One large, recent study concluded: "there is no gay gene."

"Ganna and his colleagues also used the analysis to estimate that up to 25% of sexual behaviour can be explained by genetics, with the rest influenced by environmental and cultural factors — a figure similar to the findings of smaller studies."

No ‘gay gene’: Massive study homes in on genetic basis of human sexuality

The ever increasing number of sexual designations is secular in origin and is driven by mass media. It is based on willpower and conformity and is sort of a hybrid between an addiction and tattooing.

As an analogy, people use body art to customize their skin into something they were not born with. There is no body art or body tattoo gene that drives this need to change decoration. However, there can be need and/or a compulsion to make this change, so it looks natural to them.

This change is partially for themselves and partially a way to establish a unique identity in the group. This unique aspect is why the variety of sexual orientation tattoos is increasing; personality tattoo. If it was natural it would not have to be sold so hard, nor would it require everyone have to play the game whether you agree of not. There is unconscious doubt, so forced conformity, to the rules of the game are needed to compensate.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
@AT-AT ,

I think what @Deeje would suggest for you ( and all of us actually ) is to repress/suppress/overwhelm our sexual desires with a desire to procreate which resonates with the will of God.

As you know, I think this is a bad idea. Repression, IMHO, is unsustainable and damaging. My personal opinion is that you can live a LGBTQ+ lifestyle and still resonate with the will of God.

If the story is true, the Law was given a long time ago. We're not the same people that they were. We didn't experience the Exodus.

To put my opinion in perspective; try to imagine that the story in the OT is true and that the Law is real and authoritative. If so, that means that by the time the prohibition against homosexuality was introduced officially to the nation of Israel, the people had witnessed the 10 plagues and the parting of the sea. The were in the presence of the clouds of glory, manna was falling from heaven, etc.... Try to imagine what it would feel like to be a human being witnessing all of that...

In light of this, it makes sense, doesn't it? After experiencing the Exodus and the Mount Sinai event, eating heavenly manna every day.... would you be thinking about sex or your own personal desires? I doubt it. I think you would be focusing on learning the law, and following the law, and enjoying the manna ( hopefully ) :)

Do you see what I mean?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Hope you are having a great day! @Deeje

Just wanted to ask...

Let's say someone is so exposed to environmental wrongs (estrogen in the water, etc), they couldn't possibly come back to a cis and/or straight way of living. What if they are miserable the way they are, and want to try an LGBTQ+ way of life?

It's a choice. No one is forced to do anything against their will. But we will all be judged by our choices.

No one ever died from celibacy. If God requires it because homosexual sex is contrary to nature and thus not in keeping with what gender is intended to accomplish....(to produce more humans through the natural means,) then we can decide to either live according to God's will, or we can choose to live according to the dictates of the flesh. Can you love God more than you love yourself? That is what I believe it boils down to.

As for my own stance on this topic, don't worry about it too much. I'm not going to go out of my way to display that I'm an LGBTQ+-supporting theist, just wanted to ask a question on LGBTQ+ through more of a religious, instead of a political, lens. Kind of a topic to allow the non-LGBTQ+ religious people to speak if they have something real to say, instead of them having to say it on the pro-LGBTQ+ support threads.

I have no malice against LGBTQ people because God doesn't. We are all flawed creatures in one way or another because of sin....this is what the Bible teaches. Anyone is free to question the Biblical position on this sensitive issue, but for Bible believers, there is no ambiguity regarding homosexual sex......it is the world's view that sex is the most important part of life and love, but that is not what the Bible teaches. Love of God is our primary concern and as our Creator I believe that he has the right to tell us how to live. Marriage is his arrangement.....it was meant to be the start of a new family, with opposite sexes producing new life and raising children in a warm family environment with the balance of both sexes in clearly defined roles. This world seems to have lost that, and its heading in an uncomfortable direction.

You may be right that I'm not fully Christian in that I consider Christianity one puzzle piece, and find the heart of the faith I've discovered, Baha'I, to be more about an approach of acceptance of all beliefs even through the ideas on afterlife. Note that I'm saying I find it more compatible, but not 100% compatible, with LGBTQ+. Some of the philosophies behind Baha'i faith itself.

You are as free as anyone else to search for your own truth and your own spiritual home. The one thing that many people forget is that finding a religion that suits them, may lead them to beliefs that do not suit God. We have a tendency to justify what God condemns.

We have his written word to guide us in all things. I do not find God to be unreasonable in his requirements.....do you?

Bonus question: How do we know what God wants?

We have God's written instructions as well as the teachings of his son. But if you don't believe that the Bible is God's word, then you are free to search for whatever guidance your heart desires....it just helps if that desire aligns with what God requires of the citizens of his incoming kingdom. He is choosing them right now, and one of the things that God has always required, right from the start, is our obedience to his laws. The only ones who will survive the end that is coming, are those who pass the test of obedience.

That is how I see it.
 

Jedster

Well-Known Member
An English language term for someone who, rather than following conversative teaching, seeks out the truth and lets the chips fall where they may with no disrespect intended - either winding up being looked at as heretical or a pioneer by means of taking a progressive religion progressively.


How about calling yourself a freelance Bahai.
 
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