God is only one

[Trailblazer]

Mine has been open, but I've found nothing.

I'm not surprised. Even when mine is open I get nothing. So much for 'promises' of religion.
But it is always our fault, even when it isn't.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You'd think that a loving God wouldn't put us through all of this.

No, especially as I know others have been abused far worse than I have, and endured hardships I can't even fathom.
That a god would have people tortured and abused to test them is heinously and savagely cruel and wicked. He won't even stand up against the abuses that take place in his own houses of worship.

 

[Nakosis]

That seems like your personal view.

Isn't all belief ultimately from a personal view?

 

[PureX]

If they claim there is no God, sure. Most see a lack of knowledge as a lack of having a reason to believe.

Why don't I see personal "spiritual" experience as knowledge...
Personally, I have had a lot of "spiritual" experiences but I can't prove they have any actuality outside of an internal mental experience. And, having been through many different beliefs, I found by immersing myself in a belief I would have spiritual experience which support that belief. So it seems that belief is more important than any actual God.

It's an interesting quandary. Does the 'belief' shape the experience by dictating how we interpret it? Probably. But does that negate the validity of the experience? Probably not.

For example; if I take a hallucinogenic drug and 'see God', the drug may well be responsible for the experience, but does that mean the experience isn't what it was? Perhaps the drug simply opened the door to the experience of God. Certainly a lot of humans throughout history have thought so. And I see no logical reason to presume them all wrong.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not surprised. Even when mine is open I get nothing. So much for 'promises' of religion.
But it is always our fault, even when it isn't.

I really don't think it is our fault. My former church did do a lot of very deep emotional scaring to me, my "rebound religion" just wasn't working with pseudoscience junk that deeply permeated it. And now I tend to see religion for its faults and even spirituality just seems unpleasant (even with my own "spiritual experiences").
But I have been very open these past several months. And once that door closes it probably won't open again (at least not as wide).
For one reason or another, perhaps it's just possible to have that killed off in a person?

 

[firedragon]

Isn't all belief ultimately from a personal view?

That very well maybe. See, I cannot say to an atheist or an agnostic that my faith is not a personal view because from his point of view I am just making an arbitrary apologetic statement. Thats not what I am saying.

What you stated there is an empathetic statement. That means you are stating other peoples standards as their philosophical truth bearers. Though you state it as such, you are only stating what you "think" about other people or other peoples views. Not based on how the particular scholars or philosophers of that particular theology have made their truth bearers.

Hope you understand.

 

[Nakosis]

That very well maybe. See, I cannot say to an atheist or an agnostic that my faith is not a personal view because from his point of view I am just making an arbitrary apologetic statement. Thats not what I am saying.

What you stated there is an empathetic statement. That means you are stating other peoples standards as their philosophical truth bearers. Though you state it as such, you are only stating what you "think" about other people or other peoples views. Not based on how the particular scholars or philosophers of that particular theology have made their truth bearers.

Hope you understand.

I do ask. That is usually my main intent, to understand how others see it.
And, there is rarely much commonality from among atheists as any other belief.
Still I suppose I retreat behind the wall of the commonly successful answer.

 

[firedragon]

I do ask. That is usually my main intent, to understand how others see it.
And, there is rarely much commonality from among atheists as any other belief.
Still I suppose I retreat behind the wall of the commonly successful answer.

I cant understand what you are saying.

What do you mean commonly successful answer? What is one?

 

[Nakosis]

I cant understand what you are saying.

What do you mean commonly successful answer? What is one?

So, while a atheist might say there is no God, this is a claim that needs proof/support.
The "better" answer is to claim a lack of belief. Not having a belief claims nothing other than a personal lack of belief.

Something an atheist learns for hearing other atheists. So I can state that position without needing to provide further support, in an argument/discussion.
So I can successfully defend this position without further support and not the other.

Atheists learn from each other successful/winning responses to arguments about religion.
While I may not know the specific response from each atheist, I know which have more success in arguments.
So to answer your earlier question, I projected what I find to be the more successful answer onto a majority of atheists, at least how I think they ought to be answering to be successful in an argument.

So yes, my personal view of what ought to be the common answer by all atheists.

 

[firedragon]

So, while a atheist might say there is no God, this is a claim that needs proof/support.
The "better" answer is to claim a lack of belief. Not having a belief claims nothing other than a personal lack of belief.

Something an atheist learns for hearing other atheists. So I can state that position without needing to provide further support, in an argument/discussion.
So I can successfully defend this position without further support and not the other.

Atheists learn from each other successful/winning responses to arguments about religion.
While I may not know the specific response from each atheist, I know which have more success in arguments.
So to answer your earlier question, I projected what I find to be the more successful answer onto a majority of atheists, at least how I think they ought to be answering to be successful in an argument.

So yes, my personal view of what ought to be the common answer by all atheists.

I hope I understood you. But I won’t trouble you further. Thanks mate for your responses taking time. Appreciated a lot. Peace.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I really don't think it is our fault. My former church did do a lot of very deep emotional scaring to me, my "rebound religion" just wasn't working with pseudoscience junk that deeply permeated it. And now I tend to see religion for its faults and even spirituality just seems unpleasant (even with my own "spiritual experiences").
But I have been very open these past several months. And once that door closes it probably won't open again (at least not as wide).
For one reason or another, perhaps it's just possible to have that killed off in a person?

I see the journey is about how we change ourselves to be the Love and Virtue that we would like to see reflected in this world, as we can alter no one but our own selves.

I see there is no other way. It also supports the logic of how an unbridled liberty of thoughts and action's unleash a pernicious human driven material world, that starts to dominate over the spiritual mind.

I see once we change ourselves, we can still be saddened and sickened by all the injustice, but at the same time have knowledge that God is in control. All those that suffer from injustice, in this life, have recompense in the life to come, all those that undertake the injustice are given just as much chance to change their own self, right up to their last breath.

I see the change for good is happening, for a new tree to grow the old one has to fall to give light to the new.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That there is only one God, is the most logical and reasonable conclusion I see we can make. That the One God has been made known through many names, is the logical reason behind why we have made many God's.

It is our diversity of mind, used in a divisional way, that is the reason why we can make of that One God, the many God’s that have been made.

I see it is all part of the evolution of the human species and our capacity of mind, we are learning how.to become one human race, under One God.

Regards Tony

When we do embrace this, unlimited capacities will open before our eyes.

Regards Tony

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Many - though by no means all - of the atheists on this forum are as rigid and unwavering in their attachment to dogma, as full of certitude, and as lacking in capacity for self examination, as the worst kind of religious fundamentalist. But hey, good luck getting them to see it.

We see comments like this one frequently here on RF and elsewhere implying that rigorous critical thinkers like secular humanists are missing something of value, something that the people condemning them as you have here have received owing to a superior way of viewing reality. If these people you criticize were just less rigid and more wavering in their approach to their beliefs, if they were less committed to this approach and its tasteless fruit, and had at least a small measure of introspection, there is such a bounty waiting for them.

Good luck getting them to see it? Show them. Show them the benefit you got from thinking the way you do rather than the way those you condemn think. We never see how this other approach benefits the people advocating for it, so what is there to be shown or see? There are never specifics. There is no discussion by such people what that reward was for them and how others would benefit from it. These people don't seem happier or smarter, so why take life advice from them?

Before you try to refute something or insult someones religion or belief or take any stance like that, first try to understand. Maybe if you understand their theology better, you can construct better criticisms.

Pretty much any time you refute somebody's faith-based belief, they take it personally, and give an emotional answer. They call it attacking God or attacking religion, like it's a military maneuver.

And most unbelievers aren't interested in anybody's theology, nor in critiquing it. For example, I don't care if one baptizes by sprinkling or immersion, takes a Sabbath or what day the choose if they do, pray to saints or not, etc.. So why would I take the time to ask them or read their answers, which are generally paraphrasing some source I don't consider authoritative, interesting, or useful?

Nor do the critical thinkers need better criticisms. There is no value in critiquing beliefs with a faith-based thinker, and no burden of proof with those unwilling or unable to be students. People who don't come to their beliefs by the application of valid reasoning to relevant evidence can't be moved from their present position by evidence or argument, either, and the critical thinker has nothing else to offer, so no value in offering them except possibly to others reading along who can and do benefit from them, and are capable of adopting the open-minded demeanor of a student eager to learn.

God is always ready to help us finding real purpose of life rather wasting time wandering in false purposes.

You also imply that if we seek "God," - yours, presumably - that we'll find authentic purpose, implying that we are living inauthentic lives. I see it the other way around. My life became more authentic when I left religion.

I suppose you are offering you own RF presence as an endorsement of that advice, as an example of what a life with true purpose would look like.

I've assumed all of the roles assigned to God by believers. I decide what is right and wrong, and what is true. I decide for myself what is the right way to think and behave. My judge is my conscience, not a deity. I decide what my purpose is. I live with no sense that I am being watched or judged by anyone other than myself and my conscience.

For example; if I take a hallucinogenic drug and 'see God', the drug may well be responsible for the experience, but does that mean the experience isn't what it was? Perhaps the drug simply opened the door to the experience of God. Certainly a lot of humans throughout history have thought so. And I see no logical reason to presume them all wrong.

There is also no logical reason to believe any of them claiming to see gods are correct.

My wife and I, both atheists, have had psychedelic experiences in our youths, and we both agree that the experiences were profound and permanently life-changing. And maybe we experienced some reality other than our own minds or not. Maybe we were closer to a deity or not. We have no way to tell, so we remain agnostic on the matter. There is no need in either of us to guess.

 

[Trailblazer]

I really don't think it is our fault. My former church did do a lot of very deep emotional scaring to me, my "rebound religion" just wasn't working with pseudoscience junk that deeply permeated it. And now I tend to see religion for its faults and even spirituality just seems unpleasant (even with my own "spiritual experiences").
But I have been very open these past several months. And once that door closes it probably won't open again (at least not as wide).
For one reason or another, perhaps it's just possible to have that killed off in a person?

No, I do not think it is our fault either. We can only do what we can do, according to our knowledge and capacity, as I just explained in this post: #3928 Trailblazer

 

[firedragon]

Pretty much any time you refute somebody's faith-based belief, they take it personally, and give an emotional answer.

Err. You just gave an emotional answer. That would mean, according to your own standing, a faith-based belief.

 

[idea]

You were and presumably still are essential to the existence of your children. But did you really create them?

Did God really create us?

In the grand scheme of things, conservation of mass, conservation of energy, information cannot be created nor destroyed, and the same goes for us. Everything is eternal - no beginning, and no end. There was never a need for creation, never a time of nothingness, everything has always, and will always exist, changing from one form to another. At least that is how it appears to me and a few others - https://panspermia.org/thebegin.htm

 

[RestlessSoul]

We see comments like this one frequently here on RF and elsewhere implying that rigorous critical thinkers like secular humanists are missing something of value

Yes, I do think you’re missing something of value. But the fact that the thing you are missing - rejecting out of hand, rather - is of value to me, doesn’t mean it must be of value to you.

We each have our own values; it’s the assumption by some, that their values are appropriate for everyone, and the willingness to impose them on others, that I find grating. This is something atheists often accuse religious people of, but I see the exact opposite on this forum - though this may be a function of my own perspective, granted.

 

[DNB]

He is not the only one. Delirium afflicts all theists. Indoctrination causes it.

Really, ...and what's that, a birth-mark on your head?

 

[DNB]

I believe that many parts of the bible insist that Jesus is not God. Yet, Catholics read the same bible and believe in the trinity.

Maybe we should attend each other's churches to gain a mutual understanding?

The entire Bible proclaims God's singularity, and denounces any sentiment in opposition to this fundamental and axiomatic fact.
I'm familiar with with the Christologies of the major Christian denominations, so no blind-spot there. But, maybe where you and I differ, possibly, is in the fact that I despise the doctrine of the trinity, or any deification of any being outside of the Father, the one and only true God. Whereas, I'm not sure if I detected as much conviction or vehemence from yourself?

 

[Truthseeker]

Yeah, here are a few of those quotes:

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures.” Gleanings, p. 166

“Consider the mercy of God and His gifts. He enjoineth upon you that which shall profit you, though He Himself can well dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings, p. 140

“Your Lord, the God of mercy, can well dispense with all creatures. Nothing whatever can either increase or diminish the things He doth possess.”Gleanings, p. 148

The second quote is what I was trying to remember. You have an photographic or eidetic memory. Of course you also keep files of everything. I needed help to remember how to spell eidetic. My memory has gone to pot.

So many of your quotes come from Gleanings.