God is nice and is doing his best to eliminate suffering.

[Link]

The problem of evil only really exists if you see God as omni-everything.
However, I would have thought your concept of God is indeed 'omni-everything'.

Salam

God does not know the future in absolute sense, he knows it a general sense and sees the possible outcomes before the outcomes, sees it happening before it happens, without them being set in stone, with somethings written and somethings can be unwritten and erased. He has keys to unseen no one has but him and so calculates and plans constantly through his chosen ones but this doesn't mean future is set in stone. But it does mean his plan will always keep account of plans of the Kahens and sorcerers, and overcome them in some way or another, even if means destroying them through a blast or some natural disaster way, he won't let them overcome believers and will save believers in their time of peril. There is outcomes in Quran that are dark warnings about the Mahdi (a) and we hope they won't come true, but it seems they will be if we don't change things fast significantly.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Salam

With time, physical pleasures get stale, so he could've created paradise to be more of a physical pleasure thing and stopped anyone trying to do crimes, and he could've made Adam body with gleaming light and of a type that Iblis would not disobey but things would be so pale, stale, boring and we would suffer in the long run.

Of course God created world without suffering and Adam was in paradise and meant to stay there, but things have gone haywire. If Adam didn't swerve perhaps this whole tragedy would've be avoided. But if he didn't allow Iblis to "misguide him", this would not be allowing creatures to misguide others, and everyone would be to afraid to disbelieve and voice their view.

And of course God doesn't want suffering but has allowed of a way of error handling and tries us by each other and trial from a fallen world. Without patience benefiting believers from their patience with regards to their enemies and trials of this world, he wouldn't have allowed it.

And God could've not tried Angels but they would be quite full of themselves and their worship almost worthless, so he created Adam and put his authority in him out of grace to them as well.

And of course it looks bad on God, but all it takes is some significant sincere amount of followers to God and his anointed Kings in any generation and we can put an end to suffering. And if the cursed Iblis remain patient and didn't fall and gave up his pride, everything would be perfect now.

So it looks bad, but it's error handling, things that were chance wise, very low chances to happen. Of course God knew the chances, but probability was on world being guided. This is a world that is not probable, so if we think it's purposely chosen to be like this, it's going to make God look bad.

And of course God doesn't want suffering...

Not according to what you've told me. This god apparently designed a system in which it is REQUIRED that children be raped and murdered, because for some bizarre reason if this god were to intervene it would somehow make it impossible for people to 'ascend to this god' properly. If the price of being able to 'ascend to this god' properly is for innocent children to suffer then I don't WANT to ascend to this highly immoral god being. Why would anyone, if the cost is children being raped and murdered?

It sounds as if Lucifer was right in concluding that this god being isn't worthy of worship.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"God is nice and is doing his best to eliminate suffering.": I would say a very inefficient God. Trying for billions of years and even then things getting worse.
And a very poor designer. Why did he create such a faulty world?

 

[Tiberius]

Salam

I believe this explanation solves the issue of "problem of evil". Therefore Quran And Ahlulbayt (a) theodicy solves the issue of "problem of evil". If there is holes in the explanation, people can point it out.

Do you believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient (all-powerful and all-knowing)?

 

[Aupmanyav]

God does not know the future in absolute sense, ..

Really! You think that your God is not omniscient? But Quran repeatedly says 'he know all'. Now you have me confused.

 

[Link]

And of course God doesn't want suffering...

Not according to what you've told me. This god apparently designed a system in which it is REQUIRED that children be raped and murdered, because for some bizarre reason if this god were to intervene it would somehow make it impossible for people to 'ascend to this god' properly. If the price of being able to 'ascend to this god' properly is for innocent children to suffer then I don't WANT to ascend to this highly immoral god being. Why would anyone, if the cost is children being raped and murdered?

It sounds as if Lucifer was right in concluding that this god being isn't worthy of worship.

Salam

It looks bad, but if enough of a significant amount of people helped sincerely, all suffering would be eliminated and we would still get to ascend to God with free-will. Now, because we disobey him and aren't sincerely in replying to him, it looks bad on him that he has not forced the issue.

 

[Link]

Really! You think that your God is not omniscient? But Quran repeatedly says 'he know all'. Now you have me confused.

Salam

God knows all possible things, you can't know results of free-will for it to be free.
God has capability of doing all possible things, he can't make 1 + 3 =7 for example.

 

[Link]

Do you believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient (all-powerful and all-knowing)?

Salam

It depends if you defining omniscient to include impossible things to know. Or if you include omnipotent to include impossible things to do.

 

[idea]

God is trying to save us. What else can he do?

God could give everyone equal access to school, food, health - that is one just thing God could do, if all-powerful. It's not impossible to give everyone food. It's not impossible to provide access to school.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Salam

It looks bad, but if enough of a significant amount of people helped sincerely, all suffering would be eliminated and we would still get to ascend to God with free-will. Now, because we disobey him and aren't sincerely in replying to him, it looks bad on him that he has not forced the issue.

It doesn't just look bad, it looks absolutely awful.

Here we have a god being that is perfectly capable of preventing innocent children from being raped and murdered, but this god refuses to do so, all because 'we disobey him'. Yet this god being has never once bothered to clearly tell me or anyone else exactly what the rules are. In fact this god has made no effort whatsoever to demonstrate that this god being even exists, let along that it has certain rules that I'm supposed to obey.

Is this god not intelligent enough to realize that people can't obey its rules if it doesn't make any genuine effort to inform people what the rules are? Does it not comprehend that simply having people write stuff down in some book is not making a genuine effort, especially when there are thousands of books out there claiming to be the word of some god being, many of which contradict one another?

This god refuses to stop the suffering of innocent children all because we've failed to correctly guess how to properly obey it. This god sounds horribly sadistic to me.

 

[Link]

It doesn't just look bad, it looks absolutely awful.

Here we have a god being that is perfectly capable of preventing innocent children from being raped and murdered, but this god refuses to do so, all because 'we disobey him'. Yet this god being has never once bothered to clearly tell me or anyone else exactly what the rules are. In fact this god has made no effort whatsoever to demonstrate that this god being even exists, let along that it has certain rules that I'm supposed to obey.

Is this god not intelligent enough to realize that people can't obey its rules if it doesn't make any genuine effort to inform people what the rules are? Does it not comprehend that simply having people write stuff down in some book is not making a genuine effort, especially when there are thousands of books out there claiming to be the word of some god being, many of which contradict one another?

This god refuses to stop the suffering of innocent children all because we've failed to correctly guess how to properly obey it. This god sounds horribly sadistic to me.

Salam

This is why I always say the argument of evil is uses the argument from hiddenness every time to makes it's case.

However, the reason why miracles are not in the open, has an explanation. God has provided that explanation in the Quran. They are meant to be in the open, but sometimes the first generations make a mess of things and deny the miracles and so God is prevented.

Now it's not fair we inherited this mess from our parents and their parents and so on and so forth, going back generations, and all it had started with companions of Mohammad (s) not fulfilling their pledge and duty (many of them, not all) but the injustice is not on God, it's on the past generations before us, especially as far miracles in the open go, with the generations of Muslims that witnessed Mohammad (s) up to Hassan Al-Askari (a) but didn't help God's cause.

He hide the final guide as a mercy not to destroy the world and for the world to be prepared when he comes.

 

[Link]

God could give everyone equal access to school, food, health - that is one just thing God could do, if all-powerful. It's not impossible to give everyone food. It's not impossible to provide access to school.

Salam

He can created us in heaven with no possibility of anyone being misguided. No need of life and death at all. In fact, this was closer the original plan as humanity was meant for paradise and Angels were meant to stay all Angels with no deviation and disbelief among Jinn. My post is why we are in this world and how God has been trying to help us and save us from our evil ways and end suffering.

 

[Aupmanyav]

God knows all possible things, you can't know results of free-will for it to be free.e can't make for example.

That simply means Allah is not omniscient. He does not know what a person ill do. I cannot know, but Allah should be able to know.
Cannot move mountains, cannot change the course of a river, cannot make 1 + 3 =7. That is a weak God. Wonder, how such a weak God could create the universe?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Salam

This is why I always say the argument of evil is uses the argument from hiddenness every time to makes it's case.

However, the reason why miracles are not in the open, has an explanation. God has provided that explanation in the Quran. They are meant to be in the open, but sometimes the first generations make a mess of things and deny the miracles and so God is prevented.

Now it's not fair we inherited this mess from our parents and their parents and so on and so forth, going back generations, and all it had started with companions of Mohammad (s) not fulfilling their pledge and duty (many of them, not all) but the injustice is not on God, it's on the past generations before us, especially as far miracles in the open go, with the generations of Muslims that witnessed Mohammad (s) up to Hassan Al-Askari (a) but didn't help God's cause.

He hide the final guide as a mercy not to destroy the world and for the world to be prepared when he comes.

God has provided that explanation in the Quran.

Has it? How can we know that this god was responsible for the Quran? How can you be sure that the gods didn't provide all the explanations we need in the Hindu Vedas? Or that Ovid's depictions of the Greek gods isn't the proper explanation for reality? If the only method that this god or gods has for relaying it's/their message is hearsay claims made in old books then every person who has a book with claims in it has equal evidence to believe that their book is the true explanation from god.

Can this god genuinely be surprised that people aren't obeying its rules when it's made absolutely no effort to clearly spell out what the rules are? Is this god refusing to save innocent children from suffering because too many people are working on the Sabbath? Is it because too many people have refused to accept Jesus Christ as their savior? Is it because not enough of us have listened to Joseph Smith and converted to Mormonism? Or maybe it's because not enough people pray to Odin any longer... or perhaps it's the lack of prayer that Ra receives?

Who knows? This god or gods seems perfectly content to leave the question unanswered, to allow people to simply guess as to which one to follow or just take it on faith, because that's what the authorities in their lives tell them they should believe.

Miracles are meant to be in the open, but sometimes the first generations make a mess of things and deny the miracles and so God is prevented. Now it's not fair we inherited this mess from our parents and their parents and so on and so forth, going back generations, and all it had started with companions of Mohammad (s) not fulfilling their pledge and duty (many of them, not all) but the injustice is not on God, it's on the past generations before us, especially as far miracles in the open go, with the generations of Muslims that witnessed Mohammad (s) up to Hassan Al-Askari (a) but didn't help God's cause.

1. Why would this god create a system where if some of the 'first generation' mess things up that this god is helpless to fix it?
2. I guess you can claim what these people failed to do is not on this god, even though this god is the one who created the infallible humans that messed things up, but you can certainly place the injustice on this god for deciding that millions of people not yet even born have to suffer because of mistakes made by other people centuries ago.
3. Worse yet, it isn't just the descendants of those in the Middle East who actually had the opportunity to witness these miracles, but failed to help in this god's cause who suffered. Even those who's ancestors lived on the other side of the world and knew nothing about this god being in the Middle East or its cause must suffer as well.

 

[Link]

1. Why would this god create a system where if some of the 'first generation' mess things up that this god is helpless to fix it?

For all purposes, there is no real other way of going about it in a wise manner. Our actions effect others and generations that follow. One man change everything sometimes. The trial is that we can effect others. This is the hugest trial, although from one angle, our actions are just responsible over us and effect our souls and other souls don't get accounted for them, in another way, we influence one another. So our actions are not irrelevant to others.

2. I guess you can claim what these people failed to do is not on this god, even though this god is the one who created the infallible humans that messed things up, but you can certainly place the injustice on this god for deciding that millions of people not yet even born have to suffer because of mistakes made by other people centuries ago.

Yet there's hope in Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) and the Mahdi (a) and there's enough light for us to spread it and act on it.

It's bad, but there is till guidance and good. A lot of it is upon just a few humans, even maybe me included in those few humans needed, that all they have to do is their duty, and everything will fall to place. The problem is sometimes there is no helpers or people obeying God sincerely, just as Musa (a) said "I do not control over anyone except myself and my brother, so split between us and the people of transgression"

3. Worse yet, it isn't just the descendants of those in the Middle East who actually had the opportunity to witness these miracles, but failed to help in this god's cause who suffered. Even those who's ancestors lived on the other side of the world and knew nothing about this god being in the Middle East or its cause must suffer as well.

It looks bad on God but this the best way he can help.

Mohammad's (s) companions and generations of Muslims who were present till Imam Hassan Al-askari (a) failed the whole world except a few who saw the truth and helped it and some were maimed, others slain, others in jail, others had to leave their lands as fugitives.

Then Imam Mahdi (a) disappeared.

The crime is effecting the whole world. It's a huge tragedy to people of the skies and all people of Islam, the killing of Hussain (a), but also a tragedy for the whole world.

But yet everyone can follow truth. Do something about the situation.

We Muslims can severe the link to our past, and start fresh understanding, but will we do it?

Non-Muslims can learn Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) without following our scholars and making them the authorities on Islam with no proof, will anyone do it?

We all can help, it's not that we can't.

But for most, they need a push. Some need majority on the right path before they join it.

All I can do is my best. There's hope.

 

[Link]

Salam

It looks bad that all that was needed was humanity to enjoin on each other good and forbid evil, and we all walk together upon the path, when most of us would not do it. God entrusted to carry one another upon the path and it was not unlikely this happens. Rather, we live in what is a very unlikely outcome.

If we had compassion for one another, it would've been easy.

 

[Tiberius]

Salam

It depends if you defining omniscient to include impossible things to know. Or if you include omnipotent to include impossible things to do.

And how do you determine if something is impossible to know, or impossible to do?

 

[QuestioningMind]

For all purposes, there is no real other way of going about it in a wise manner. Our actions effect others and generations that follow. One man change everything sometimes. The trial is that we can effect others. This is the hugest trial, although from one angle, our actions are just responsible over us and effect our souls and other souls don't get accounted for them, in another way, we influence one another. So our actions are not irrelevant to others.





Yet there's hope in Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) and the Mahdi (a) and there's enough light for us to spread it and act on it.

It's bad, but there is till guidance and good. A lot of it is upon just a few humans, even maybe me included in those few humans needed, that all they have to do is their duty, and everything will fall to place. The problem is sometimes there is no helpers or people obeying God sincerely, just as Musa (a) said "I do not control over anyone except myself and my brother, so split between us and the people of transgression"







It looks bad on God but this the best way he can help.

Mohammad's (s) companions and generations of Muslims who were present till Imam Hassan Al-askari (a) failed the whole world except a few who saw the truth and helped it and some were maimed, others slain, others in jail, others had to leave their lands as fugitives.

Then Imam Mahdi (a) disappeared.

The crime is effecting the whole world. It's a huge tragedy to people of the skies and all people of Islam, the killing of Hussain (a), but also a tragedy for the whole world.

But yet everyone can follow truth. Do something about the situation.

We Muslims can severe the link to our past, and start fresh understanding, but will we do it?

Non-Muslims can learn Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) without following our scholars and making them the authorities on Islam with no proof, will anyone do it?

We all can help, it's not that we can't.

But for most, they need a push. Some need majority on the right path before they join it.

All I can do is my best. There's hope.

Funny how you failed to address the most important question I asked.

Has it? How can we know that this god was responsible for the Quran? How can you be sure that the gods didn't provide all the explanations we need in the Hindu Vedas? Or that Ovid's depictions of the Greek gods isn't the proper explanation for reality? If the only method that this god or gods has for relaying it's/their message is hearsay claims made in old books then every person who has a book with claims in it has equal evidence to believe that their book is the true explanation from god.

Can this god genuinely be surprised that people aren't obeying its rules when it's made absolutely no effort to clearly spell out what the rules are? Is this god refusing to save innocent children from suffering because too many people are working on the Sabbath? Is it because too many people have refused to accept Jesus Christ as their savior? Is it because not enough of us have listened to Joseph Smith and converted to Mormonism? Or maybe it's because not enough people pray to Odin any longer... or perhaps it's the lack of prayer that Ra receives?

Who knows? This god or gods seems perfectly content to leave the question unanswered, to allow people to simply guess as to which one to follow or just take it on faith, because that's what the authorities in their lives tell them they should believe.

 

[Link]

Funny how you failed to address the most important question I asked.

Has it? How can we know that this god was responsible for the Quran? How can you be sure that the gods didn't provide all the explanations we need in the Hindu Vedas? Or that Ovid's depictions of the Greek gods isn't the proper explanation for reality? If the only method that this god or gods has for relaying it's/their message is hearsay claims made in old books then every person who has a book with claims in it has equal evidence to believe that their book is the true explanation from god.

Can this god genuinely be surprised that people aren't obeying its rules when it's made absolutely no effort to clearly spell out what the rules are? Is this god refusing to save innocent children from suffering because too many people are working on the Sabbath? Is it because too many people have refused to accept Jesus Christ as their savior? Is it because not enough of us have listened to Joseph Smith and converted to Mormonism? Or maybe it's because not enough people pray to Odin any longer... or perhaps it's the lack of prayer that Ra receives?

Who knows? This god or gods seems perfectly content to leave the question unanswered, to allow people to simply guess as to which one to follow or just take it on faith, because that's what the authorities in their lives tell them they should believe.

Salam
These questions are loaded as I believe Quran is a book of clear insights and proves the proper religion but this would be straying off topic into a different one then op which is presenting islam as far as theodicy goes and seeing if it’s valued defense. From point of view Islam guidance to the truth exists.

 

[Link]

And how do you determine if something is impossible to know, or impossible to do?

Salam

Future doesn’t exist so can’t be known for example is an absolute fact unless God is not going to create free choices and force us to not allow will.