God is nice and is doing his best to eliminate suffering.

[lewisnotmiller]

Salam

I believe this explanation solves the issue of "problem of evil". Therefore Quran And Ahlulbayt (a) theodicy solves the issue of "problem of evil". If there is holes in the explanation, people can point it out.

The problem of evil only really exists if you see God as omni-everything.
However, I would have thought your concept of God is indeed 'omni-everything'.

If so, I'd say that the word 'try' in your OP makes no sense. An omni-everything God doesn't try. He does. Or he does not.
If your belief is in a limited God, then the problem of evil/suffering doesn't necessarily exist in the first place.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Sorry I don't understand Islamic lingo so you'll have to forgive me. I have no idea what God's rope is, or what evil is. I'm so unintelligent you might as well be talking at a dead fish.

Heh. I'd be interested in a thread discussing your intelligence (or otherwise) and what evil is...whether a serious one, or in jest.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

All I will say is God MAY be doing his best but if so, he is not very effective. Suffering is getting worse not better.

 

[firedragon]

Was there something you wished to debate, or is this just a sermon?

I am guessing you just woke up from the wrong side of the bed to begin comments in thread with such an authoritarian type of commentary. Does your post here intend to clarify and ask a question or just cheapen other people because you just felt like going on some power trip?

 

[firedragon]

Om shanti.

Setting aside the faith-based premise that God exists, assuming God does exist, how do you know what God wants? Or if God even has the quality of "want?"

Please share your own experiential-based knowledge in your response, rather than quote-mining the Quran.

I highly doubt that one has to prove God exists in every single thread about his or her concept of God. There are many many threads by all kinds of people here in RF completely based on faith. If you think that every thread about a concept of God or multiple Gods of any kind must first begin by proving God exists you should collectively make a rule in RF.

 

[Trailblazer]

All I will say is God MAY be doing his best but if so, he is not very effective. Suffering is getting worse not better.

If suffering is getting worse it is because of man, not because of God.
God is not responsible for cleaning up the mess that man makes in the kitchen.

 

[Aupmanyav]

God is the originator of the mess (due to his faulty engineering). He was not a qualified engineer, there were no universities at that time. Just some tinkerer and the results prove that.

 

[stvdv]

Salam

I believe this explanation solves the issue of "problem of evil". Therefore Quran And Ahlulbayt (a) theodicy solves the issue of "problem of evil". If there is holes in the explanation, people can point it out.

Definitely true, there is no "problem of evil"
Easily solved by common sense

People need to introspect
Stop pointing @GOD / @Others
For their own created messed up world

We call that:
"people need to grow up"
"people need to take responsibility"

 

[Vinayaka]

Heh. I'd be interested in a thread discussing your intelligence (or otherwise) and what evil is...whether a serious one, or in jest.

Jest is better, but you'll have to start it. My new motto is 'no fun, no life'. But it's tough to get real with someone who has snot in the middle of his name.

 

[KWED]

God is doing his best to eliminate suffering

Well, his best isn't good enough.
If a god tries to do something and fails, then he can't be the Abrahamic god.

 

[KWED]

Then everyone would obey God out of pure fear and not love and he won't be able to reward them with himself.

Why would someone have to believe in a god for that god to be able to strike them down?
Remember this is about reducing suffering, not about belief or worship.

A government's welfare policy helps everyone, not just those who voted for them.

 

[KWED]

WHAT? You would start fearing this god if this god started giving heart attacks to child rapist/murderers? Why would anyone other than child rapist/murderers be afraid? Personally I would be THANKFUL to any god that started taking such action. It would be an indication that this god actually cared about reducing needless human suffering.

Good point. Why should we care that child murderers stop murdering children through fear of punishment rather than through a desire to reduce harm?

 

[KWED]

I am guessing you just woke up from the wrong side of the bed to begin comments in thread with such an authoritarian type of commentary. Does your post here intend to clarify and ask a question or just cheapen other people because you just felt like going on some power trip?

Ironically, you have just committed the offence that you are inaccurately accusing them of.
You're not getting any better at this, are you?

 

[Balthazzar]

Of sparrows and men - it's a hostile world. Cats and sparrows don't really get along to well. People don't seem to either. Moral fiber, social decency, pack mentalities-community. Where does God begin and no law, every beast, pack, pride for themselves end? Life , the circle of and our place in it as consciously aware, and concerned people is ever present it seems, but morality and nature tend to be opposed. Civil law and societal congruency of accepted action/behavior are isolated to specific cultures/species. God and the problem of evil aren't real issues. It's just life and our way of making it better through proactive efforts to do so. There is no problem of evil. There is a problem with our willingness to accept it without attempt to counter. Hardship and struggle - we try to make life better. The insect world has no "conscience". Eat or be eaten, flight and fight realities. We try ... can we do better? Yes. The goal for most is betterment. I "believe in better life experiences" - Acronym noted

 

[Link]

WHAT? You would start fearing this god if this god started giving heart attacks to child rapist/murderers? Why would anyone other than child rapist/murderers be afraid? Personally I would be THANKFUL to any god that started taking such action. It would be an indication that this god actually cared about reducing needless human suffering.

Salam

We would appreciate in a sense it eliminates suffering. But we wouldn't able to prove ourselves to God in a meaningful way and hence would not be able to ascend to God in a meaningful way. The reason is we all be too scared to "disobey", and then "obedience" would not have much value.

 

[Link]

The problem of evil only really exists if you see God as omni-everything.
However, I would have thought your concept of God is indeed 'omni-everything'.

If so, I'd say that the word 'try' in your OP makes no sense. An omni-everything God doesn't try. He does. Or he does not.
If your belief is in a limited God, then the problem of evil/suffering doesn't necessarily exist in the first place.

Salam

God can't create square triangles. Love is a truth from him descended, and can't be forced.

 

[Link]

All I will say is God MAY be doing his best but if so, he is not very effective. Suffering is getting worse not better.

Salam

It looks bad, but if a significant amount of people helped God's cause with utmost effort: peace and justice would spread and if enough people sincerely helped, God can bring Imam Mahdi (a) to public view without fear of the big consequences warned about in Quran.

 

[firedragon]

The problem of evil only really exists if you see God as omni-everything.
However, I would have thought your concept of God is indeed 'omni-everything'.

If so, I'd say that the word 'try' in your OP makes no sense. An omni-everything God doesn't try. He does. Or he does not.
If your belief is in a limited God, then the problem of evil/suffering doesn't necessarily exist in the first place.

In don't really know what you mean by omni-everything, and maybe if you have some time you could clarify.

But I think you make sense.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Salam

We would appreciate in a sense it eliminates suffering. But we wouldn't able to prove ourselves to God in a meaningful way and hence would not be able to ascend to God in a meaningful way. The reason is we all be too scared to "disobey", and then "obedience" would not have much value.

Wait a second! You're saying that this god being COULD eliminate the suffering of these innocent children but this god chooses NOT to, all because this god somehow NEEDS these children to suffer rape and murder, just so we can prove ourselves to this god? If this god WANTS these children to suffer and die just so that I am able to 'ascend to this god in a meaningful way' please tell this god to STOP!. I do not want to ascend to this god if it means innocent children have to suffer and die. I don't want to ascend to any god that makes children's suffering a requirement for my ascension. That just sound horrible and disgusting to me.

 

[Link]

Wait a second! You're saying that this god being COULD eliminate the suffering of these innocent children but this god chooses NOT to, all because this god somehow NEEDS these children to suffer rape and murder, just so we can prove ourselves to this god? If this god WANTS these children to suffer and die just so that I am able to 'ascend to this god in a meaningful way' please tell this god to STOP!. I do not want to ascend to this god if it means innocent children have to suffer and die. I don't want to ascend to any god that makes children's suffering a requirement for my ascension. That just sound horrible and disgusting to me.

Salam

With time, physical pleasures get stale, so he could've created paradise to be more of a physical pleasure thing and stopped anyone trying to do crimes, and he could've made Adam body with gleaming light and of a type that Iblis would not disobey but things would be so pale, stale, boring and we would suffer in the long run.

Of course God created world without suffering and Adam was in paradise and meant to stay there, but things have gone haywire. If Adam didn't swerve perhaps this whole tragedy would've be avoided. But if he didn't allow Iblis to "misguide him", this would not be allowing creatures to misguide others, and everyone would be to afraid to disbelieve and voice their view.

And of course God doesn't want suffering but has allowed of a way of error handling and tries us by each other and trial from a fallen world. Without patience benefiting believers from their patience with regards to their enemies and trials of this world, he wouldn't have allowed it.

And God could've not tried Angels but they would be quite full of themselves and their worship almost worthless, so he created Adam and put his authority in him out of grace to them as well.

And of course it looks bad on God, but all it takes is some significant sincere amount of followers to God and his anointed Kings in any generation and we can put an end to suffering. And if the cursed Iblis remain patient and didn't fall and gave up his pride, everything would be perfect now.

So it looks bad, but it's error handling, things that were chance wise, very low chances to happen. Of course God knew the chances, but probability was on world being guided. This is a world that is not probable, so if we think it's purposely chosen to be like this, it's going to make God look bad.