God did not create the Universe

[Caladan]

Modern physics leaves no place for God in the creation of the Universe, Stephen Hawking has concluded in his new book the grand design.

Healthy opinion by a world class scientist.
a god must be extracted out of all physics studies. we are discussing the physical, the physical laws of the world we are part of. not what we would like the world we are part of to be. and not be gullible and biased enough to attempt to bend these rules to our wishful dogmas. or to think that the laws of physics are in any shape or form effected by our 'spiritual' beliefs. the physical world will continue to be here, even if the various creatures of this planet will cease to be, such as was the case 65 million years ago. in which the vast majority of life on this planet was evaporated or eradicated. along with which ever beliefs they might have held about the laws of physics. which are arguably not much, as they were more busy surviving and preying.

 

[AllanV]

But if God has a family lineage then there must be more than one god yes?
Or is it like Zeus and his demi-god children?

wa:do

From personal experience there is God an energizing spirit that is unfathomable and incomprehensible and then there is God the rational having all explanations. The human mind needs a comparison within own mind to be able to understand. This God the Word was Jesus Christ in the flesh.

Own mind can not properly contemplate or understand immortality, which has another mind, because human mind is encumbered. The biological sensory experience is of a mortal. The will is active for self survival and maintaining a level of comfort. There is an active power, a spirit, on the earth and all biology is predatory, and things rust, oxidize, and the earth is an abrasive difficult place to live.

There is a barrier in the mind that keeps God out of sight. God the Word, the rational can reveal God the incomprehensible, the energizing Spirit. To know God takes an initiation and some dedication.

 

[AllanV]

Healthy opinion by a world class scientist.
a god must be extracted out of all physics studies. we are discussing the physical, the physical laws of the world we are part of. not what we would like the world we are part of to be. and not be gullible and biased enough to attempt to bend these rules to our wishful dogmas. or to think that the laws of physics are in any shape or form effected by our 'spiritual' beliefs. the physical world will continue to be here, even if the various creatures of this planet will cease to be, such as was the case 65 million years ago. in which the vast majority of life on this planet was evaporated or eradicated. along with which ever beliefs they might have held about the laws of physics. which are arguably not much, as they were more busy surviving and preying.

It is impossible to get rid of God but religion is a different discussion all together.

 

[Caladan]

It is impossible to get rid of God but religion is a different discussion all together.

You have reversed the equation. as customary in recent years. inspired by romantic movements from the 18th and 19th centuries. mostly reactionary movements against the Industrialization of the world and by people who have seen their rural areas and cities ravaged by the French regiments of Napoleon such as in the case of Prussia. various nations developed antagonistic movements which breathed a spiritual dimension into the depressing political enfolding events of their time and their terrible defeats. decades later. educated men of science, history and archaeology dismissed these movements. yet they have made their last dying breath into the modern new age movement, and various 'new age' spiritual beliefs. you could say that the academia has butchered these pseudo-scientific movements many years ago. yet there will always be people who will persist in fighting or struggling against the contemporary political and industrial environment they exist in.

God has been produced by religion. certainly not the other way around. no god has ever crushed in an escape pod, came out of it holding clay tablets and waving to the people saying 'here I am'.
god can and has been easily discarded by modern science. which is void of spiritual baggage.
Religion however. just like science. are here to stay.

 

[painted wolf]

From personal experience there is God an energizing spirit that is unfathomable and incomprehensible and then there is God the rational having all explanations. The human mind needs a comparison within own mind to be able to understand. This God the Word was Jesus Christ in the flesh.

Isn't this god "the word" a different god from "the father"? Or is it a pantheistic god that can be many things at the same time?

Own mind can not properly contemplate or understand immortality, which has another mind, because human mind is encumbered. The biological sensory experience is of a mortal. The will is active for self survival and maintaining a level of comfort. There is an active power, a spirit, on the earth and all biology is predatory, and things rust, oxidize, and the earth is an abrasive difficult place to live.

There is a barrier in the mind that keeps God out of sight. God the Word, the rational can reveal God the incomprehensible, the energizing Spirit. To know God takes an initiation and some dedication.

More dedication than a Sun Dance?

wa:do

 

[AllanV]

You have reversed the equation. as customary in recent years. inspired by romantic movements from the 18th and 19th centuries. mostly reactionary movements against the Industrialization of the world and by people who have seen their rural areas and cities ravaged by the French regiments of Napoleons such as in the case of Prussia. various nations developed antagonistic movements which breathed a spiritual dimension into the depressing political enfolding of events of their time and their terrible defeats. decades later. educated men of science, history and archaeology dismissed these movements. yet they have made their last dying breath into the modern new age movement, and various 'new age' spiritual beliefs. you could say that the academia has butchered these pseudo-scientific movements many years ago. yet there will always be people who will persist in fighting or struggling against the contemporary political and industrial environment they exist in.

God has been produced by religion. certainly not the other way around. no god has ever crushed in an escape pod, came out of it holding clay tablets and waving to the people saying 'here I am'.
god can and has been easily discarded by modern science. which is void of spiritual baggage.
Religion however. just like science. are here to stay.

I did look at the New Age but to me it is very similar to Christianity.

I agree religion has produced its own God.

Moses instituted laws with harsh penalties because the people were behaving towards each other badly. Even misbehaving children or their parents were stoned to death. Desperate times desperate measures.

People in modern times say we should learn from history so that the same mistakes are not repeated. I think this is a fallacy. Some just learn better ways of getting what they want.

Every one is looking in the wrong place for God. God is much closer than can be imagined. God is impossible to understand in the natural mind. God is an energizing Spirit.
Personal mind power de-energizes as own life pattern continues. Some people have power to dominate and others follow. This power is a barrier to knowing God. This makes man mortal.
Modern science in the area of aging, shows the possibility of extending life. Much is known now, in just the last few years. The scriptures are about immortality. Is the human mind up to the challenge. Will the human mind have to be transcended to reveal another mind. This is the mind of Christ.

 

[AllanV]

Isn't this god "the word" a different god from "the father"? Or is it a pantheistic god that can be many things at the same time?

More dedication than a Sun Dance?

wa:do

Yes they represent the family a person can be born into. The word can be divided into all the different abilities. Each person could have an area that is best for them. The area of ability of the individual can be opened up to make that person, what humans would call a genius. But when transformed it would be normal to be opened up to a depth of understanding that wasn't usually contemplated.

It is not a case of there being many different Gods. A transformed person is part of the God family.

It would be a matter of believing and then acting on what was coming into the mind. Human mind has this ability now but it is at a much lower level and there is a questionable motive. Most human power is used for self interest, dominating and manipulating.

The way is a little unnerving a little frightening because it is the mind that is being changed. It is realized that all those faults or questions, that it takes a life time to be comfortable with are not the real person. The you is encumbered with things that have been lodged in the personality through ongoing life experience.

A person learns to be strong and this strength has a power and is the will in action. A persons own power bonds them with others in the interaction of personality types. It is impossible to escape without becoming vulnerable emotionally because own power must be given up. When the mind changes are complete the person is fully protected.

I have done some reasonably dangerous things and the mind battle that takes place compares with these.

 

[Caladan]

I did look at the New Age but to me it is very similar to Christianity.

Finally we agree on something. both Christianity and New Age breath spiritual dimensions which are not existing in man. real men do not turn water into wine as they do in legend. they labour with their hands to dig an underground tunnel which will carry water into their city. such as in the case of the men under King Hezekiah. who dug the tunnel underneath what is now referred to as the City of David in Jerusalem before 701 BCE. the Hebrew Bible discusses the men of the city labouring on this tunnel in preparation for the Assyrian siege on Jerusalem. (2 Kings 20:20 and 2 Chronicles 32). the tunnel which was discovered in 1838 by the American biblical scholar Edward Robinson, is today opened to public and can be walked from end to end.

I agree religion has produced its own God.

There is no other god than the one which the scriptures or the scribes of the scriptures have produced. if you ever happen to see him. send him kind regards and props up for the tenth plague of Egypt.

Every one is looking in the wrong place for God.

Everyone but you that is. no wonder you see a similarity between New Age and Christianity. and specifically in the object of ideal in the Christian religion.
which has also claimed that no one comes to god but through him.

God is much closer than can be imagined. God is impossible to understand in the natural mind. God is an energizing Spirit.
Personal mind power de-energizes as own life pattern continues. Some people have power to dominate and others follow. This power is a barrier to knowing God. This makes man mortal.
Modern science in the area of aging, shows the possibility of extending life. Much is known now, in just the last few years. The scriptures are about immortality. Is the human mind up to the challenge. Will the human mind have to be transcended to reveal another mind. This is the mind of Christ.

Ah. in the memorable words of the virgin Mary. come again?

 

[painted wolf]

Yes they represent the family a person can be born into. The word can be divided into all the different abilities. Each person could have an area that is best for them. The area of ability of the individual can be opened up to make that person, what humans would call a genius. But when transformed it would be normal to be opened up to a depth of understanding that wasn't usually contemplated.

It is not a case of there being many different Gods. A transformed person is part of the God family.

It would be a matter of believing and then acting on what was coming into the mind. Human mind has this ability now but it is at a much lower level and there is a questionable motive. Most human power is used for self interest, dominating and manipulating.

The way is a little unnerving a little frightening because it is the mind that is being changed. It is realized that all those faults or questions, that it takes a life time to be comfortable with are not the real person. The you is encumbered with things that have been lodged in the personality through ongoing life experience.

A person learns to be strong and this strength has a power and is the will in action. A persons own power bonds them with others in the interaction of personality types. It is impossible to escape without becoming vulnerable emotionally because own power must be given up. When the mind changes are complete the person is fully protected.

I have done some reasonably dangerous things and the mind battle that takes place compares with these.

uh huh....

wa:do

 

[AllanV]

Finally we agree on something. both Christianity and New Age breath spiritual dimensions which are not existing in man. real men do not turn water into wine as they do in legend. they labour with their hands to dig an underground tunnel which will carry water into their city. such as in the case of the men under King Hezekiah. who dug the tunnel underneath what is now referred to as the City of David in Jerusalem before 701 BCE. the Hebrew Bible discusses the men of the city labouring on this tunnel in preparation for the Assyrian siege on Jerusalem. (2 Kings 20:20 and 2 Chronicles 32). the tunnel which was discovered in 1838 by the American biblical scholar Edward Robinson, is today opened to public and can be walked from end to end.

There is no other god than the one which the scriptures or the scribes of the scriptures have produced. if you ever happen to see him. send him kind regards and props up for the tenth plague of Egypt.

Everyone but you that is. no wonder you see a similarity between New Age and Christianity. and specifically in the object of ideal in the Christian religion.
which has also claimed that no one comes to god but through him.

The scriptures are a history of God and his dealing with man. If the people disobeyed Gods voice then they brought hardship on themselves. The people were warned in prophecy of the consequences of their actions and rejection of Him. They weakened their belief by interacting with other nations and their false Gods and payed the penalty.
God is a living God. God is close at hand not far off. God's request is for each to know Him.
God sees everyone at every instant. God is an observer just beyond the natural personally empowered mind. God knows each by how they miss the mark and do not measure up, which is sin.

Jesus measured up and is perfect. The scriptures say "be perfect for I am perfect"
"without holiness none will see the Lord"

The mind can be opened up and shown the perfect acceptable mind and nature of Jesus. Everything has to be given over. The way is then open to knowing God as he requests. To be powerfully energized and prepared. Knowing God and the hope is, having the gift of eternal life. To take part in a resurrection, a regeneration of form onto a renewed earth. An earth where there is no predatory influence, sickness or death. Man will delight in the work of his hands and it will be a work that is good.

 

[Caladan]

The scriptures are a history of God and his dealing with man. If the people disobeyed Gods voice then they brought hardship on themselves. The people were warned in prophecy of the consequences of their actions and rejection of Him. They weakened their belief by interacting with other nations and their false Gods and payed the penalty.

This is something you should take serious heed of. as you are spelling your own death. the scriptures you are talking about are the written material of an extremely different culture than your own. you are in effect 100% foreign to this culture. which is no surprise then how you conjured such a systematically anti-realistic view of life. so radically different than the scriptures you speak so highly of.

 

[AllanV]

This is something you should take serious heed of. as you are spelling your own death. the scriptures you are talking about are the written material of an extremely different culture than your own. you are in effect 100% foreign to this culture. which is no surprise than how you conjured such a systematically anti-realistic view of life. so radically different than the scriptures you speak so highly of.

There is enough local culture to lead a person astray.
Culture can be a problem in any society. It closes minds. This can drag down effecient operation. Mind sets are the biggest problem to knowing God. My understanding is that a demon is a fixture of the mind and in modern language that could be a mind set. A cultural mind set can produce such things as Christmas, sports, religion or general behavior and beliefs.

My view of life would not be much different to yours. But a change of mental perspective does a lot. This change of perspective is impossible to accomplish in a persons own power there has to be a willingness to be open.

It is like the difference of looking at and being absorbed with one part in a large operating machine to having a look at the whole operation as an observer. All the parts are made and fit together in a manner that will produce efficient reliable service.

The world and the people in it are like a machine with the parts being broken up by some individuals as time goes on. There are some who cannot see themselves in any future except the one they create. If they are unable to get their way then they would rather destroy everything.

I can not worry about the cultural aspects as you suggest. This is about what drives the inner person, their motives.
A personal experience has shown me that every person is separated from knowing God by a short distance. There is an active power in the human that wants to kill and destroy. Psychology can show that 85% of males and 45% of females have thought about murdering someone with some actually planning it. Narcissism is a deep self absorption and can be behind many violent acts.

The scriptures are actually a deeper revelation of what motivates everyone. I would not have understood what it is about except it was and is shown to me.
From Adam to the temple with the veil and the sanctuary, to Jesus, all is a clear message and picture of the way into Holiness for the individuals participating. Nobody need be excluded.

But there is something being worked out on the earth that is bigger than any person. God's people are being drawn from history.

 

[outhouse]

Mind sets are the biggest problem to knowing God.

no education, reason and reality shows a direct percentage with disbelief in a deity

There is an active power in the human that wants to kill and destroy

omnivore, and we still are pretty primitive creatures

God's people are being drawn from history.

it would serve you well to learn the real history from 3000BC to 1000AD [not from the bible as its not accurate historically enough to know exactly what happened]

 

[Caladan]

I have no idea what you are saying Allan. its like a geneticist who has been indoctrinated for years to see ACGT, or the letters which stand for the nucleic acids that construct the DNA, being forced see other letters. in other words its irrelevant information to the modern world. its time to smell the coffee beans. all miracle makers have ceased to be. today they are labelled as charlatans.

 

[AllanV]

no education, reason and reality shows a direct percentage with disbelief in a deity



omnivore, and we still are pretty primitive creatures



it would serve you well to learn the real history from 3000BC to 1000AD [not from the bible as its not accurate historically enough to know exactly what happened]

I did not come into the understanding that I have through any religion. I was living quietly on 10 acres of purchased bush land with my wife and first 6month old son. There was no road, no power, no phone, no distractions. There was plenty of work to do and most of it by myself.
My mind was opened up powerfully and it was rational not a lot of gibberish. The Bible is really about the genealogy from Adam to Jesus. Immortality lost and a separation from God can now be hopefully regained by some.

Everything explained in scriptures was shown to me in my mind in 5 seconds leaving me in some shock, and it was rational. I began to look into the scriptures and check out many different religions. I even read a book on sorcery about the will and belief.

I was living in a physical world and had a view of the world, seeing is believing but in one moment that was changed and it came from beyond my self. My whole perspective was changed. Here was God completely unknown to me being there all the time and a little beyond where I could see. Every one could experience this so why didn't they.

I have attempted to make a rational explanation the best I am able. But this is no comparison to an experience.

 

[AllanV]

I have no idea what you are saying Allan. its like a geneticist who has been indoctrinated for years to see ACGT, or the letters which stand for the nucleic acids that construct the DNA, being forced see other letters. in other words its irrelevant information to the modern world. its time to smell the coffee beans. all miracle makers have ceased to be. today they are labelled as charlatans.

It is easy to explore how things work. Depending on your sensitivity, the bonding with the human can be sensed in the body and you mentioned the word freakish previously.
This is quite disconcerting realizing that a person you are talking with may be inducing some feelings within you and sharing complimentary ones. The subconscious is penetrated using the will. It is a power that projects the personality magnifying it and depositing it in the subconscious of another person. It can be acted on immediately or as a memory. This I understand is Satan's realm and all magnification of the personality or self opposes God. All humans are at each other all the time.

It is not all inappropriate but some is. It is easily deniable because there is no proof except for actual behavior. Each of us responds inwardly first to how another person is making us feel. Talking and the tone of the voice helps but is not necessary and body language helps also to pick up on someones mood. How this can make the other person feel can be out of proportion to what is happening. At one level all this is completely hidden and is just the way it is.

The mind and brain are being got at, inducing chemicals in the process. Chemicals create sensations. One person could to be trying to make another angry, this could be inadvertant because the person is perceived to be stupid. This could be a ploy in itself. Some people talk in a sexual way to provoke a complimentary response.
Although I am aware of this I know some people are in such a fixed state in their personality they can not change.

My first work experience at 15 was amongst 70 men, continuing for 5years. This I have reflected on in light of my spiritual experience.

My mind was in such a fixed state, but I did try to get some distance from all those things that I saw as bad habits. I imposed correction from my own conscience on what was acceptable because when I was young I pleased my self with very little retstraint. I learned not to get caught. I didn't do anything too bad thankfully but that is according to me.

This information is more important now but not many will respond to it.
Miracles will return but they might not be believed even if something major occurs.

Evolution is about species and survival. Perhaps a transformation and a renewal in the mind of some will help the survival of man. A peculiar species.

 

[outhouse]

I did not come into the understanding that I have through any religion. I was living quietly on 10 acres of purchased bush land with my wife and first 6month old son. There was no road, no power, no phone, no distractions. There was plenty of work to do and most of it by myself.
My mind was opened up powerfully and it was rational not a lot of gibberish. The Bible is really about the genealogy from Adam to Jesus. Immortality lost and a separation from God can now be hopefully regained by some.

Sounds like you have a beautiful life

Living primitive and somewhat off the land can do good by any man, it also makes complete sense why the bible works so well for you.

in your world I suppose there is no need to look further for other answers or questions.

this unfortunatly is not the rest of the world

 

[Caladan]

It is easy to explore how things work. Depending on your sensitivity, the bonding with the human can be sensed in the body and you mentioned the word freakish previously.
This is quite disconcerting realizing that a person you are talking with may be inducing some feelings within you and sharing complimentary ones. The subconscious is penetrated using the will. It is a power that projects the personality magnifying it and depositing it in the subconscious of another person. It can be acted on immediately or as a memory. This I understand is Satan's realm and all magnification of the personality or self opposes God. All humans are at each other all the time.

It is not all inappropriate but some is. It is easily deniable because there is no proof except for actual behavior. Each of us responds inwardly first to how another person is making us feel. Talking and the tone of the voice helps but is not necessary and body language helps also to pick up on someones mood. How this can make the other person feel can be out of proportion to what is happening. At one level all this is completely hidden and is just the way it is.

The mind and brain are being got at, inducing chemicals in the process. Chemicals create sensations. One person could to be trying to make another angry, this could be inadvertant because the person is perceived to be stupid. This could be a ploy in itself. Some people talk in a sexual way to provoke a complimentary response.
Although I am aware of this I know some people are in such a fixed state in their personality they can not change.

My first work experience at 15 was amongst 70 men, continuing for 5years. This I have reflected on in light of my spiritual experience.

My mind was in such a fixed state, but I did try to get some distance from all those things that I saw as bad habits. I imposed correction from my own conscience on what was acceptable because when I was young I pleased my self with very little retstraint. I learned not to get caught. I didn't do anything too bad thankfully but that is according to me.

This information is more important now but not many will respond to it.
Miracles will return but they might not be believed even if something major occurs.

Evolution is about species and survival. Perhaps a transformation and a renewal in the mind of some will help the survival of man. A peculiar species.

Yeah.. computer says no.

 

[AllanV]

Sounds like you have a beautiful life

Living primitive and somewhat off the land can do good by any man, it also makes complete sense why the bible works so well for you.

in your world I suppose there is no need to look further for other answers or questions.

this unfortunatly is not the rest of the world

My life could be much better, but I will not complain, my basic needs are met.
I am not sure that the Bible works so well for me. It is a collection of books and a reassurance only. The dynamic instant expression in all life is the focus.

Existence offers enough challenges. The answers to questions can be easily lost. Things can be forgotten under the burden of basic needs, therefore the focus has to continue and be maintained.

The answers are before them but there is a trick played on the mind to hide the correct questions.

 

[AllanV]

Yeah.. computer says no.

There is something unusual happening in this country at the moment.

One parliamentary minister was shown mocking and ridiculing a report on mine safety before a major mine explosion that killed many.

Jobs have been exported to China. Even natural resources and scrap metals are going. There is a large energy component in used metals and this all represents wealth. Some one is making a lot of money. There is a little bit of rot there somewhere. There is a greedy grab amongst some for what wealth there is. It is all deception and blatant lies.

We have a different Government and they are ripping into welfare dependency.
There have been some major announcements made.

There has been an earthquake here in NZ and twice an announcement has been made there has been an earthquake.
There are a lot of tourists and they bring about 20 billion dollars into the country per year.

Bodies are being pulled out of collapsed buildings and there are tourists amongst them. The news media keeps bringing up the words "temporary morgue" and the thought occurred that in NZ the womb is a temporary morgue.

There are 20,000 abortions of 7-11week fetuses per year in a population of 4million. The debate continues now on voluntary euthanasia. The suicide rate is about twice the death by motor vehicle rate but the focus is on poor driving. With all the street violence, the drugs and attitudes, more care is needed to keep out of trouble.

The national anthem says "God defend New Zealand". Well, there is a case for being careful what is asked for. The only event that hasn't occurred is a major volcanic eruption.
This land doesn't deserve the people who possess it.