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God defined by what He did than by His features.

Pachomius

Member
I am theist because I know that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

How do I prove that such a God exists?

Simple: Because man and the universe and everything with a beginning did not create themselves, it follows that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

That is the only ultimately valid explanation for the existence of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
I am theist because I know that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

How do I prove that such a God exists?

Simple: Because man and the universe and everything with a beginning did not create themselves, it follows that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

That is the only ultimately valid explanation for the existence of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

Your argument is fallacious and thus must be rejected. You cannot use causality to explain causality. You will have to find another argument to prove your position is correct.
 

Pachomius

Member
Your argument is fallacious and thus must be rejected. You cannot use causality to explain causality. You will have to find another argument to prove your position is correct.

You have no explanation why anyone human being a homo sapiens cannot prove causality from the definition of causality.

Think intelligently, and explain your gratuitous denial that anyone human being homo sapiens cannot prove causality from causality, i.e. the definition of causality.

Dear readers, let us all sit back and await with bated breath the reply of epronovost.

Hint: how to prove something to exist from its definition, take the example of your nose, hahahahaha!

Time to do some genuine honest intelligent thinking, instead of repeating false principles, like one cannot prove something to exist from its definition, or like you cannot prove a negative, or the burden of proof is on the party making a claim, not on the party denying the claim.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I am theist because I know that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

How do I prove that such a God exists?

Simple: Because man and the universe and everything with a beginning did not create themselves, it follows that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

That is the only ultimately valid explanation for the existence of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

Did God create themselves?
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
You have no explanation why anyone human being a homo sapiens cannot prove causality from the definition of causality.

Think intelligently, and explain your gratuitous denial that anyone human being homo sapiens cannot prove causality from causality, i.e. the definition of causality.

Dear readers, let us all sit back and await with bated breath the reply of epronovost.

Hint: how to prove something to exist from its definition, take the example of your nose, hahahahaha!

Time to do some genuine honest intelligent thinking, instead of repeating false principles, like one cannot prove something to exist from its definition, or like you cannot prove a negative, or the burden of proof is on the party making a claim, not on the party denying the claim.

I don't think you understand what a fallacy of stolen concept is. I'll try to make it clearer.

You cannot cause causality. Causality is the metaphysical concept that describes the interractions of cause to effect. Implying that something caused causality is implying that a product of causality is prior to causality. That's a logical non-sense about as big as implying that you are your mother's father. All causal chains end at causality itself since it's its metaphysical deadend. You cannot regress a causal chain beyond causality itself.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I am theist because I know that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

How do I prove that such a God exists?

Simple: Because man and the universe and everything with a beginning did not create themselves, it follows that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

That is the only ultimately valid explanation for the existence of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.
I think the strongest and most convincing philosophical arguments arise from moral arguments. Humans are moral and therefore....so and so. Argument is only argument, however. Its not a means of guaranteeing things but only of plugging words into forms.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am theist because I know that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

How do I prove that such a God exists?

Simple: Because man and the universe and everything with a beginning did not create themselves, it follows that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

That is the only ultimately valid explanation for the existence of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.
That's a pretty dangerous place to place your belief in God on. A gap in scientific knowledge. What happens to your faith once they have a different explanation? Personally, I recommend finding other reasons to believe in God that don't depend on logic arguments and proofs. That's really not what faith is about.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
I am theist because I know that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

How do I prove that such a God exists?

Simple: Because man and the universe and everything with a beginning did not create themselves, it follows that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

That is the only ultimately valid explanation for the existence of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

Then God is the Big Bang.
Okay...
 

Pachomius

Member
Please, dear epronovost, tell me where is the concept of causality?

We will concur on what is causality when you and I concur on where is the concept of causality, okay?


I don't think you understand what a fallacy of stolen concept is. I'll try to make it clearer.

You cannot cause causality. Causality is the metaphysical concept that describes the interractions of cause to effect. Implying that something caused causality is implying that a product of causality is prior to causality. That's a logical non-sense about as big as implying that you are your mother's father. All causal chains end at causality itself since it's its metaphysical deadend. You cannot regress a causal chain beyond causality itself.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
Please, dear epronovost, tell me where is the concept of causality?

We will concur on what is causality when you and I concur on where is the concept of causality, okay?

Sure. It's everywhere. Causality is an omnipresent feature of the observable universe. It's not the only thing that's omnipresent in the universe either. Many metaphysical concept are also omnipresent (as are some physical concept).
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
First, you have to define what you mean by the word, God.

Otherwise you do not know what you are talking about, and that is not intelligent talking.

It's your discussion, what do you mean by God?
As for myself, I choose not to define God. So your definition will suffice.
 

Pachomius

Member
Dear Brickjectivity, I will not accept any talk about God, unless God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

Please, everyone, don't give any attention to any God Who is not in concept the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

Why? Simple: because such a God Who is not in concept the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning is not worth any attention from man; for example, that God is the author of morality whatever, but not the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

Title of thread - God defined by what He did than by His features.

I am theist because I know that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

How do I prove that such a God exists?

Simple: Because man and the universe and everything with a beginning did not create themselves, it follows that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

That is the only ultimately valid explanation for the existence of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.
I think the strongest and most convincing philosophical arguments arise from moral arguments. Humans are moral and therefore....so and so. Argument is only argument, however. Its not a means of guaranteeing things but only of plugging words into forms.
 

Pachomius

Member
Dear Windwalker, I don't base my argument on mere logic.

First I think in my mind, then I go outside my mind to search for evidence to confirm in the world outside my mind, what I have concluded in my mind.

Besides, very important, I don't just believe, I KNOW God exists in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

That's a pretty dangerous place to place your belief in God on. A gap in scientific knowledge. What happens to your faith once they have a different explanation? Personally, I recommend finding other reasons to believe in God that don't depend on logic arguments and proofs. That's really not what faith is about.
 

Pachomius

Member
Dear Nakosis, I am very happy that you have the honest intelligence to know that in any conversation at all, to resolve the question God exists or not, the negative party must accept the definition of God from the positive party.

Unless of course the positive party's definition of God has intrinsic components, that are contradictory within the components together.

Here is my concept of God:

God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.



It's your discussion, what do you mean by God?
As for myself, I choose not to define God. So your definition will suffice.
 

Pachomius

Member
Dear epronovost, you have not read with precision what I ask you, namely:
Please, dear epronovost, tell me where is the concept of causality?

We will concur on what is causality when you and I concur on where is the concept of causality, okay?

Sure. It's everywhere. Causality is an omnipresent feature of the observable universe. It's not the only thing that's omnipresent in the universe either. Many metaphysical concept are also omnipresent (as are some physical concept).
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
Dear epronovost, you have not read with precision what I ask you, namely:

Define "concept of causality" vs "causality" and I'll answer your question. But, considering my answer was everywhere, wherever "concept of causality" could be, "causality" will also be there.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Why? Simple: because such a God Who is not in concept the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning is not worth any attention from man; for example, that God is the author of morality whatever, but not the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.
That is a refusal to believe God is invisible, and by 'Invisible' the philosophers didn't merely mean transparent like air. They meant truly invisible as opposed to the gods of the pagans who were considered to be detectable just exactly in the same ways that you are insisting God must be. Insisting that God must be detectable is, well, emptying the entire concept of its pith.

I am theist because I know that God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.
Technically that is both a type of theism and a type of atheism, because it uses a new definition of God. Western Philosophy probably will have nothing to do with it.
 

Pachomius

Member
Dear epronovost, I will tell you that (1) the concept of causality is in your mind and in my mind, is that okay with you?

And (2) that you and I can each point out in the world outside your mind and my mind an example of causality, is that okay with you?

So, will you concur with me in (1) that the concept of causality is in your mind and in my mind, that is we are concurred that you and I have the concept of causality in our respective mind?

For (2), here is my example of causality in the world outside of my mind and your mind, namely, the procreation of a baby by a man and a woman.

Give me your example of (2), okay?
 
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