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God defined by what He did than by His features.

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Pachomius, May 18, 2020.

  1. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    This is the philosophy section. Splitting hair and assigning labels are the most philosophic things to do. And that is not just a habit, it serves a purpose. We want clarity, we want to make sure we understand our interlocutors position.

    I still fail to understand yours. "God is that in concept He is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning." remains an empty cliché to me. You keep repeating that phrase but you don't answer questions about it.

    We might be victims of a language barrier. I'm not a native speaker and I have a feeling neither are you. Alas, I have no other solution as to end our conversation here and remain strengthened in my Agnosticism and our "creed": I don't know what god is - and neither do you.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. Pachomius

    Pachomius Member

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    Addressing epronovost, you seem to be obsessed with my argument for the existence of God, that it suffers from intrinsic contradiction.

    Suppose you tell me what you know to be my argument, okay?

    Just put it in less than 50 words; if you love to talk endlessly, that just shows that you are all muddled up.
     
  3. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you just adress the criticism? I think I made my objections clear enough. If you don't think I've represented your argument correctly, then explain me how and where. If you can't adress my objection, then you don't know there is God, you have a delusion of grandeur about your perceived knowledge.
     
    #63 epronovost, May 22, 2020
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  4. Pachomius

    Pachomius Member

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    I will not talk with you anymore, because you don't really know my argument.

    Why? Simple, you are so muddled up with inutile rote learning.

    Proof of that?

    Simple, you can't present my argument in less than 50 words, that is the proof of your everlasting muddled up brain/mind.

    A concise and clear mind will first work with his party in exchange of thoughts: to first concur on exactly what the issue is all about.

    You never dare to do that, because your brain/mind is ever muddled up.

    You can still redeem yourself, let us work out together as to concur on what is the issue of my argument, and we will come to concurrence that God exists, or that my argument is intrinsically contradictory.

    Present my argument in less than 50 words.
     
  5. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Pachomius' argument: God exist as the creator of the universe and humanity because those things have a beginning. All things with a beginning cannot create themselves thus God is ultimately the creator of those things. (33 words)


    I did it about 5 times in this thread so far. Your argument is neither new and original. It's known as the argument from First Cause and was popularise by Saint Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century.

    Now give me a your counter argument to my objection that your argument is fallacious. I've explained you how and why, so provide me with your answer in less than 50 words.
     
  6. Pachomius

    Pachomius Member

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    Thanks, epro, for re-telling my argument.

    Now, tell me how it is intrinsically contracdictory.


     
  7. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Causality is a feature of the universe. You cannot cause causality nor use causality to explain causality.
     
  8. Pachomius

    Pachomius Member

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    Causality is a feature of the universe. You cannot cause causality nor use causality to explain causality. - epro


    Where do I ever say or make it appear that I am using causality to explain causality?

    Give me quotes from my posts, okay?



     
  9. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    There you go. I even bolded it for you.
     
  10. Pachomius

    Pachomius Member

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    Dear epro, see? You are bolding the wrong words, the right word to bold is the word, concept.



     
  11. Pachomius

    Pachomius Member

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    I will be back later, it's 0759 hours in my location.
     
  12. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    You will have to elaborate because, just like that, this doesn't constitute a rebuttal.
     
  13. Pachomius

    Pachomius Member

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    Dear epro:
    The issue now is still that you have not shown any correct understanding at all: of what you say about something intrinsically contradictory in my argument.

    You seem to be incapable of thinking relevantly; how should I rebut you when you have not established at all - that I have committed an intrinsic contradiction in my argument for God's existence, God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

    You appear to be altogether lost with words and words and more words, without any substance of saying anything at all that is of relevancy, i.e. that I am into intrinsic contradiction in my argument.

    Please do some personal self thinking with an honest brain/mind, instead of searching into your rote memory inutile collection of nonsense fallacies.

    [ Date and time in my location is May 23, 2020 Sat.. 2115 hours. ]



     
  14. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    I did not read the whole thread, so forgive me if this was already asked.

    Who created God?
     
  15. Pachomius

    Pachomius Member

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    Dear Salix, are you asking me, Who created God?


     
  16. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    Is this a trick question?
     
  17. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    How can your God in concept, be the creator or something that cannot be created, in that case causality?

    Please do some proper thinking and soul seaching before thinking you are intelligent enough to anwer this question. You can always admit you cannot defeat this objection and must abandon your position. There is no shame in being wrong.

    PS: Your rebuttle is far more than 50 words long. I think, that by your own standard, you seem to be incapable of thinking relevantly?
     
  18. Pachomius

    Pachomius Member

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    Dear Salix, we are in philosophy, and I for one - perhaps you not, do not play tricks in philosophy.

    So, I am asking you, Are you asking me the question, Who created God?

    Answer honestly and intelligently and don't go into nonsense flippancy, this is philosophy.

     
  19. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    My question was clear. Answer it or don't.

    This isn't your lawn. Don't tell me how to play on it.
     
  20. Pachomius

    Pachomius Member

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    Dear epro:

    Cease and desist from evasions.

    You allege that I commit an intrinsic contradiction in my argument for the existence of God, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

    I am still waiting for you to produce a verbatim line from my posts, saying one thing, and another verbatim line from my posts, saying the exact opposite i.e. contrary thing.

    Cease and desist from evasions.


     
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