God created evil

[Prophet]

*edit*

I disagree with your perspective seeing man as special. I disagree with your perspective seeing the other animals as soulless. I disagree with your perspective that you are more likely to understand the events that transpired around the creation of our universe or our species by reading 2,000 year old Scriptures rather than turning to scientific inquiry. I disagree with pretty much all of your doctrine, and I would wager I could give a much better reason for my disagreement than you can give in support for anything you've submitted in that piece above.

 

[Thief]

I disagree with your perspective seeing man as special. I disagree with your perspective seeing the other animals as soulless. I disagree with your perspective that you are more likely to understand the events that transpired around the creation of our universe or our species by reading 2,000 year old Scriptures rather than turning to scientific inquiry. I disagree with pretty much all of your doctrine, and I would wager I could give a much better reason for my disagreement than you can give in support for anything you've submitted in that piece above.

Go for it.

 

[Prophet]

If we believe absurdities, we will commit atrocities. -Voltaire

If some believe that forms of life which are different from them are without value in the way that you describe, it is from this superiority which they will derive their own value and justify the mistreatment of those "beneath" them.

You have here for yourself a solid foundation for bigotry.

 

[seth phoenix]

evil may simply be bad karma..

 

[otokage007]

That God created something out of nothing is, as everything religion states, highly speculative. To begin with, "nothing" may be an invented concept and never existed to begin with. Or have any of you any evidence supporting the existence of "nothingness"?

 

[Thief]

That God created something out of nothing is, as everything religion states, highly speculative. To begin with, "nothing" may be an invented concept and never existed to begin with. Or have any of you any evidence supporting the existence of "nothingness"?

I BELIEVE
the bible uses the word...void.

Would that be close enough?

 

[jaareshiah]

According to the Bible (Isaiah 45:7) God creates evil. Why do so many people, especially evangelical types, find this so hard to understand and accept?

The way the King James Bible reads at Isaiah 45:7 gives the impression that God ' creates evil', that evil is part of his personality, that perhaps he gloats in evil. Nothing can be farther from the truth, for 1 John 4:8 says that "God is love", not has love or is loving, but is the very personification of love, which is evident throughout the creation.

The Hebrew word rendered as "evil" at Isaiah 45:7 is ra' (H7451). In order to determine if this has been correctly rendered, a person should examine this word throughout the Hebrew Scriptures, commonly called the Old Testament, and see how it is used. It also has the meaning of "bad", as at Genesis 31:24, based on a contrast with the word "good" (Hebrew towb), "calamity", as at Genesis 19:19, 44:29, 33 and Isaiah 45:7, "harm", as at Genesis 31:29, "malignant", as at Deuteronomy 28:35.

Thus, at Isaiah 45:5-7, according to a modern English translation, it reads: "With the exception of me there is no God. I shall closely gird you, although you have not known me, in order that people may know from the rising of the sun and from its setting that there is none besides me. I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. Forming light and creating darkness, making peace and creating calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things."(New World Translation)

Here, there is a contrast of "making peace" and "creating calamity", just as at Genesis 1:18 is a contrast between day and night, whereby it says concerning the ' greater and lesser luminary ', that these are "to dominate by day and by night and to make a division between the light and the darkness."

An example of Jehovah "creating calamity", was when Dathan and Abiram (as well as Korah) rebelled against Jehovah God by speaking against his appointed servant Moses.(Num 16:1-3) Moses said that these would not receive a "punishment of all mankind" or die naturally, but that "if it is something created that Jehovah will create, and the ground has to open its mouth and swallow up them and everything that belongs to them and they have to go down alive into She´ol, you will then know for certain that these men have treated Jehovah disrespectfully.”(Num 16:30, "disrespectfully", Hebrew na'ats, meaning "to scorn", H5006, see also 1 Sam 2:17 and Ps 74:18) These died from the "calamity" that God caused for treating him disrespectfully, for the ground opened up and swallowed these and their household.(Num 16:31-34)

Thence, God has caused "calamity" (evil", King James Bible) in order to punish those who treat him with disrespect, which is the majority of mankind nowadays. Jesus said that during our time period, known as "the last days" (2 Tim 3:1), that the vast majority of mankind would be like those who lived just prior to the global deluge, saying: "For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."(Matt 24:37-39) The apostle Peter said that these living at the time of the Noachian Flood were "ungodly people" (2 Pet 2:5) whose "heart was only bad (ra') all the time".(Gen 6:5)

In the near future, Jehovah God will "create calamity" by bringing to an end this wicked "system of things" ("end of the world", King James Bible, Matt 24:3) The three parts that make up this "world", (1) greedy commercialism, (2) (false) religion and (3) political governments, will be wiped off the face of the earth to make way for "an abundance of peace" of God's making (Rev 17-19), transforming the earth into the paradise that he purposed from the beginning for "meek" ones forever.(Ps 37:11, 29)

Proverbs 2 says that "the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it."(Prov 2:21, 22) Hence, God will ' create calamity ' soon to cleanse the earth of "bad" or "evil" (Hebrew ra' ) people, so that "meek" or teachable ones by God can enjoy life on the earth in genuine peace forever.(Ps 37:9, 10)

 

[Skwim]

The Hebrew word rendered as "evil" at Isaiah 45:7 is ra' (H7451). In order to determine if this has been correctly rendered, a person should examine this word throughout the Hebrew Scriptures, commonly called the Old Testament, and see how it is used. It also has the meaning of "bad", as at Genesis 31:24, based on a contrast with the word "good" (Hebrew towb), "calamity", as at Genesis 19:19, 44:29, 33 and Isaiah 45:7, "harm", as at Genesis 31:29, "malignant", as at Deuteronomy 28:35.

So, how do you know that in:

Genesis 31:24 ra isn't suppose to be rendered as "sad"?

Genesis 31:29 ra isn't suppose to be rendered as "naught"?

Genesis 19:19 ra isn't suppose to be rendered as "evil"?

Genesis 44:29 ra isn't suppose to be rendered as "misery"?

Deuteronomy 28:35 ra isn't suppose to be rendered as "pain"?
​

Sorry, but unless you're ready to second guess just about every word in the Bible (in this case, the KJ version) you're going to have to accept the fact that Isaiah 45:7 says god created evil.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]."
​

And no amount of scriptural tap dancing is going to change that.

 

[rusra02]

According to the Bible (Isaiah 45:7) God creates evil. Why do so many people, especially evangelical types, find this so hard to understand and accept?

The Hebrew word translated "evil" in some translations of Isaiah 45:7 can also be translated "calamity". In fact, the same Hebrew word is variously translated by other English words such as "bad", "ugly", and others. Evil or calamity is not always the same as wrongdoing. Jehovah has brought evil or calamity upon the wicked, such as the Flood and the ten plagues on Egypt. But there was nothing unrighteous about God's actions. Rather, administering perfect justice requires bringing evil upon evildoers. At times, God has refrained from bringing calamity or evil because he had a basis to show mercy. Regarding the people of Nineveh who repented when Jonah warned of their imminent destruction, Jonah 3:10 states: "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." (KJV)

 

[Skwim]

The Hebrew word translated "evil" in some translations of Isaiah 45:7 can also be translated "calamity". In fact, the same Hebrew word is variously translated by other English words such as "bad", "ugly", and others. Evil or calamity is not always the same as wrongdoing. Jehovah has brought evil or calamity upon the wicked, such as the Flood and the ten plagues on Egypt. But there was nothing unrighteous about God's actions. Rather, administering perfect justice requires bringing evil upon evildoers. At times, God has refrained from bringing calamity or evil because he had a basis to show mercy. Regarding the people of Nineveh who repented when Jonah warned of their imminent destruction, Jonah 3:10 states: "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." (KJV)

As I said in post #83

"in Isaiah 45:7 we have god creating ra', and depending on the Bible one chooses to use, for the most part this word means; "evil," "woe," "calamity," or "disaster"), none of which are desirable circumstances. So, while god is said to have created good stuff, he's also responsible for some pretty bad stuff. And in as much as these Bibles don't qualify their interpretation of ra', it's pretty clear the reader is expected to assume their common meanings.

Evil:

n.
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction:
​

Woe:

n.1. Literary intense grief or misery
2. (often plural) affliction or misfortune

​

Calamity:

n. 1. a disaster or misfortune, esp one causing extreme havoc, distress, or misery
2. a state or feeling of deep distress or misery

​

Disaster:

n.1. a. An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe.
b. A grave misfortune.

(Source for definitions: Collins English Dictionary or The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language)


​

To my way of thinking, they all cast the god of Abraham as a downright reprehensible character.

Consider: If these terms described the work of some backwater god worshiped by primitive tribesmen, what would you make of such a deity?

Of course, I expect some will point out that all the good god does negates this evil, or __whatever__ he created, but what kind of a "schizophrenic" character is this who purposely causes people to suffer, but also causes them to find delight in their world?

And, as for the the notion that we need evil to make good meaningful. Give me a break. "
​

 

[Thief]

If we believe absurdities, we will commit atrocities. -Voltaire

If some believe that forms of life which are different from them are without value in the way that you describe, it is from this superiority which they will derive their own value and justify the mistreatment of those "beneath" them.

You have here for yourself a solid foundation for bigotry.

Here is what is I suspect....from a thread I started years ago....
I quote myself.

Man was created a little less than the angelic.

There is a long standing belief that the fall of the angelic..one third of heaven...was brought on by a division....an argument.

God...having made Man...a little less than the angelic...said to the angels...
"Man is fragile...follow after him and see to it, that he dash not his toes...nor his head."

One third of the angelic said "nay".
"For that Man is less than we are... He should be made to serve us."

There is nothing wrong in that logic.
Man does so unto lesser creatures in every way.

We... chain our dogs, and expect their loyalty...keeping to one master...even though it is their nature to run free in packs, and hunt at will.
We.... saddle and bridle our horses...and expect them to take us wherever we desire...and we break their spirits that they will obey.
We.... cage little birds..that they sing for our pleasure...but the little creature sings for a mate he will never find. There will be no nest...no offspring...and he will die in his solitude.
We...readily kill anything that cannot be made to serve us...any disobedient animal.

A fight broke out. Brother angel against Brother angel.
One third of the angelic fell from grace...losing their positions in heaven.
They lost their place because of an argument...concerning something that looks like you.
They want you dead.
Two thirds of heaven lost their Brothers because of an
argument...concerning something that looks like you.

Do you not bear resemblance to the one third fallen?
Do you not perform unto lesser things...and your fellowman ...as you will?

Are you not concerned..what...or who...will be standing over you...
When you lay down to breath your last breathe?

 

[jaareshiah]

Many, such as yourself Skwin, fail to understand why God has brought "calamity" or "evil" upon mankind. For example, 120 years before the Noachian Flood, that "it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. After that Jehovah said: “My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.”(Gen 6:1-3)

Why did Jehovah God deem it necessary for only 120 years more (in 2490 B.C.E.) until he brought "calamity" on mankind in the year 2370 B.C.E.? Genesis 6:4 says that "the Neph´i·lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame."

Who were the Nephilim ? These were the giant sons born from the sexual union of wicked angels (who had materialized as humans) and women. The Hebrew word Nephilim or han·Nephi·lim´, meant “those who cause others to fall down" in death. These followed in their angelic father's "footsteps" by causing death and wickedness to abound in the earth by being bullies.

Thus, Genesis 6 says: "Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad (Hebrew ra') all the time. And Jehovah felt regrets that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart. So Jehovah said: “I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret that I have made them.”(Gen 6:5-7)

Though God had made "mankind upright" when he created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (Ec 7:29) and everything was then "very good" (Gen 1:31) with genuine peace prevailing throughout the universe, a spirit son of God rebelled (who later came to be named Satan, meaning "resistor" ), seducing Eve.(Gen 3:1-6; 1 Tim 2:14) He ' disturbed the peace' that God had made.

Hence, some 1536 years after Adam's creation in 4026 B.C.E., God saw it was now necessary to bring "calamity" upon his handiwork (in 2370 B.C.E.) in order to be "making peace" (Isa 45:7) on the earth as was originally in the Garden of Eden. He could not allow "the badness of man (that) was abundant in the earth" to continue unabated, for "the earth became filled with violence".(Gen 6:11) Therefore, for true justice to be served, he brought "calamity" or "evil" upon mankind, destroying all wicked persons by a cataclysmic flood. Only Noah and his family proved to be obedient to Jehovah God and survived.(Gen 7:13; 1 Pet 3:20)

And God has purposed that all "evil" be done away with, transforming the earth into a paradise (Luke 23:43), whereby "meek" ones will enjoy life forever "in the abundance of peace".(Ps 37:11, 29) Then, if anyone wants to "disturb the peace" that Jehovah has made for his loyal ones, then, in an instant of time, these will receive "calamity" and be destroyed. God will not tolerate wickedness for any length of time as he done until now, some 6000 years removed from man's creation.(see 2 Pet 3:9)

So, the question can rightly be asked, Do you want genuine peace that only Jehovah gives and that results in living forever or do you want the "peace" that men make that ends in death ?(see Jesus words at John 14:27)

 

[Skwim]

Many, such as yourself Skwin, fail to understand why God has brought "calamity" or "evil" upon mankind.

You do understand what the word "evil" means, do you not?

Evil:
n.
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness
​

This does not admit any extenuating notions of justification. An act of evil can never be justified. If it could it would not be evil. So let's not have any of this apologetic tap dancing to excuse god's action. And, it doesn't matter what he may have proposed for later on---your Luke 23:43 reference---right now on Earth the evil he chose to create still goes on, and on, and on. Thanks, but no thanks, for the favor Big Guy. :slap:

 

[jaareshiah]

You do understand what the word "evil" means, do you not?

Evil:
n.
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness
​

This does not admit any extenuating notions of justification. An act of evil can never be justified. If it could it would not be evil. So let's not have any of this apologetic tap dancing to excuse god's action. And, it doesn't matter what he may have proposed for later on---your Luke 23:43 reference---right now on Earth the evil he chose to create still goes on, and on, and on. Thanks, but no thanks, for the favor Big Guy. :slap:

The English word "evil" meaning "morally bad or harmful" is not always an exact equivalent of the Hebrew word ra', which encompasses more than just the English word "evil", also having the meaning of "calamity, bad". And it need be considered from God's viewpoint, that in order for justice to be administered on wicked ones, it is necessary for these to receive "evil", as for example during the Noachian Flood.(Gen 8:11, 12, 21)

If you were a tenant who rented or leased out your property, would you allow your renters to abuse your property ? What if these renters refused to abide by your rules stipulated in the contract, causing great damage to your property ? Would you just turn a blind eye to them ? Or would you take decisive action to remove these destructive renters from the property ?

Our Creator, Jehovah God, gave mankind the earth as his "inheritance".(Ps 115:16) These were not to abuse it but was given the commission to take care of the earth.(Gen 1:28) These were also to adhere to his moral laws, for as their heavenly Father, has the right to set moral boundaries for his "children".

However, because Adam and Eve disregarded God's 1st command concerning the "tree of knowledge of good and bad" (Gen 2:17), these, now as rebels, were forcefully put out of the Garden of Eden, to live a harsh life.(Gen 3:17, 18) These received "evil" or "calamity" from God due to their rebellion, with Adam (and Eve) receiving the sentenced of death.(Gen 3:19) Was this just ? Yes, for they did not follow the "rules of the contract", but sought to do things their own independent way, listening to Satan.

Because of his detrimental actions, all of Adam's offspring (as our forefather), have died or will die. Throughout history, the vast majority of mankind have disregarded Jehovah God and his laws for them as his offspring.

To illustrate: What if you had a son who disregarded your rules of the house when growing up ? Would you allow him to continue in this direction without correction ? Or would you see to it that he received necessary discipline him in order to help him ? What if he then "lifted himself against you", unwilling to be corrected at all, but showed a haughty and arrogant attitude ? Would you coward down and allow this attitude run rampant in your home ? Or would you see to it that he left your home, since he has now become a troublemaker ?

Our Creator, Jehovah God, made the earth for us, but only for those who willingly follow his moral boundaries or laws that he has established. Any consistent disregard of these moral guidelines (with the word "moral" meaning "involving right and wrong"), though given warnings, can only rightfully result in being evicted. Some may feel that this is "evil" for God to do this. However, anyone who appreciates genuine justice sides with Jehovah God.

Thus, God has caused "evil" or "calamity", at times, to come upon mankind to remove those who violate his moral laws. This is true justice. That is why Isaiah 45:7 says that he is "creating calamity", but also has made the way for "making peace" for those whom are called "meek" ones (Matt 5:5), ones who, without reservation, adhere to God's laws and guidelines, as found in the Bible. These have learned to love Jehovah God and his moral laws.(Deut 6:5)

In order for "meek" ones to enjoy "peace", wicked ones have to be permanently removed from the earth. Hence, Psalms 37:11 says that "the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace", whereas "evildoers themselves will be cut off."(Ps 37:9)

As long as wicked or "evil" people (this needs to be understood properly) are on the earth, right-hearted individuals that love God cannot truly enjoy the life that he originally purposed when he created Adam and Eve. In the near future, even the "evil" of sickness, sorrow and death will be removed, as seen at Revelation 21:3-5.

So the word "evil" has to be seen in it's proper context, whether it is right from God's viewpoint to remove "bad" or "evil" people by means of "calamity" or just to allow "evil" mankind to run down the earth, be it morally or ecologically until finally man destroys both himself and the earth that God created for us.

Jehovah God, from the inception of Adam's rebellion, laid out arrangements to undo the sad effects of the "evil" that Adam brought upon us by means of a "seed" (Gen 3:15), his "only-begotten Son", Jesus, establishing a heavenly government specifically designed to restore God's original purpose.(Dan 2:44)

He has an "appointed time" in the near future to permanently remove all who "turn up their nose" at him and his righteous moral laws that makes life truly satisfying for "meek" or teachable ones.(Matt 24:15-21)

 

[Skwim]

The English word "evil" meaning "morally bad or harmful" is not always an exact equivalent of the Hebrew word ra', which encompasses more than just the English word "evil"

Right. However, re Isaiah 45:7, "evil" IS the word word used in 57% of the Bibles I checked (8 out of 14). Of course, a person can pick and choose among the many versions of the Bible and find one that agrees with one's needs here, but then it would most likely be in disagreement in many other passages.

So, what's a person to do? Read all the versions and find one that least disagrees with his needs?

So the word "evil" has to be seen in it's proper context, whether it is right from God's viewpoint to remove "bad" or "evil" people by means of "calamity" or just to allow "evil" mankind to run down the earth, be it morally or ecologically until finally man destroys both himself and the earth that God created for us.

Don't play word games here. Isaiah 45:7 isn't talking about "[removing] "bad" or "evil" people by means of "calamity" or just to allow "evil" mankind to run down the earth,"

It's about god creating evil. In Isaiah 45:7 god says he brought evil into existence. PERIOD! And, I don't see any context as justifying such an act.

 

[Prophet]

Here is what is I suspect....from a thread I started years ago....
I quote myself.

Man was created a little less than the angelic.

There is a long standing belief that the fall of the angelic..one third of heaven...was brought on by a division....an argument.

God...having made Man...a little less than the angelic...said to the angels...
"Man is fragile...follow after him and see to it, that he dash not his toes...nor his head."

One third of the angelic said "nay".
"For that Man is less than we are... He should be made to serve us."

There is nothing wrong in that logic.
Man does so unto lesser creatures in every way.

We... chain our dogs, and expect their loyalty...keeping to one master...even though it is their nature to run free in packs, and hunt at will.
We.... saddle and bridle our horses...and expect them to take us wherever we desire...and we break their spirits that they will obey.
We.... cage little birds..that they sing for our pleasure...but the little creature sings for a mate he will never find. There will be no nest...no offspring...and he will die in his solitude.
We...readily kill anything that cannot be made to serve us...any disobedient animal.

A fight broke out. Brother angel against Brother angel.
One third of the angelic fell from grace...losing their positions in heaven.
They lost their place because of an argument...concerning something that looks like you.
They want you dead.
Two thirds of heaven lost their Brothers because of an
argument...concerning something that looks like you.

Do you not bear resemblance to the one third fallen?
Do you not perform unto lesser things...and your fellowman ...as you will?

Are you not concerned..what...or who...will be standing over you...
When you lay down to breath your last breathe?

And WHO, exactly, is the lesser animal? Has it not differed throughout history? Two generations ago, Jews were considered a pest by a military machine bent on their extermination. Three generations earlier, beings of African descent in my own country were considered as property by more technologically advanced beings of European descent.

Supported by a false moral code of might makes right, the Holocaust and slavery are perfectly acceptable.

 

[jaareshiah]

Right. However, re Isaiah 45:7, "evil" IS the word word used in 57% of the Bibles I checked (8 out of 14). Of course, a person can pick and choose among the many versions of the Bible and find one that agrees with one's needs here, but then it would most likely be in disagreement in many other passages.

So, what's a person to do? Read all the versions and find one that least disagrees with his needs?


Don't play word games here. Isaiah 45:7 isn't talking about "[removing] "bad" or "evil" people by means of "calamity" or just to allow "evil" mankind to run down the earth,"

It's about god creating evil. In Isaiah 45:7 god says he brought evil into existence. PERIOD! And, I don't see any context as justifying such an act.

Though many Bibles use the word "evil at Isaiah 45:7, this is not in disagreement with the context, though it is more accurately rendered as "calamity", based upon the context. Whichever Bible you use is not important, but that a person can begin to understand why God is "creating evil".

Thus, it seems in your viewpoint, you would allow wicked or "evil" persons to continue unabated on the earth. Can there be any real peace with such ones running loose ? When the police take down a murderer, these are "creating evil" for this bad person by locking him up. Would you rather have a murderer on the loose or have him taken "off the streets" ? When you clean your sink or bathtub with a disinfectant, you are "creating evil" for the bacteria that may be lurking.

In order for the earth to be "a safe haven" for righteous persons, our Creator, Jehovah God, has to "create evil" for them and remove them. When justice is not done in various situations, people often have protests. These want the judicial system to "create evil" for the person(s) responsible for the badness they caused by removing them from society.

Thus, for the earth to become "clean" for God's "people", those who have chosen to be under his rulership, he has the "create evil" or "calamity" for the bad people. Do you like to wear dirty or clean clothes ? Most like to wear clean clothes. On an earthwide scale, God is no different, for he wants the earth to be clean physically, morally and spiritually and this will come to reality. In the Bible book fo Revelation, it says that Jehovah God will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth."(Rev 11:18)

For example, the earth is suffering cataclysmic blows through the ecology being decimated at a rate faster than it can heal itself. For every 5 months of destruction by humans, it takes 1 year for the earth to recover. Unless, a major change is in place soon, it is postulated that by 2037, the earth will be unable to effectively sustain life. In the 2006 IMAX documentary "Deep Sea", it was noted that since 1950, 90 percent of all the big fish are gone. And now climate change is seen as real (with 98 percent of working climatologists recognizing this), with the oceans warming, creating destructive weather patterns, and being called "the new norm".

God will not allow his creative handiwork to be destroyed, just as you would not want anyone coming into your home and damaging it. For you, you would either evict or call the police to see that the person(s) responsible is dealt with, "creating evil" for them, but saving your home.

If you were to look more closely at Isaiah 45:7, it also says that God is "forming light and creating darkness, making peace". Jehovah God is known as the Creator, for has created all the universe, which rightly includes the earth. Just as a tenant will not allow his renters to destroy his buildings, so likewise will God not allow anyone to destroy the earth, but will "create evil" for them to cleanse for "meek" ones, "making peace" for them. In the near future, only "meek" ones will be living on the earth, who will not damage it but are assigned as caretakers of it forever.(Gen 1:28)

If you want true justice to be done, to make the earth a truly safe place that can rightly be called "home sweet home", then you will recognize the need by Jehovah God to "create evil" for those unworthy of living on the earth. Just as an infestation of termites must be addressed, the exterminator must "create evil" for them and exterminate them. It is no different for God, who sees many of mankind as an infestation who are "disturbing the peace", but lovingly is allowing sufficient time for honest-hearted persons to be found and "saved" to live on a paradise earth.(2 Pet 3:9)

Thence, this is no "word games", but God will see to it that his earth is clean of all badness, "creating evil" in order to remove all who disregard his laws and guidelines.

 

[rusra02]

As I said in post #83

"in Isaiah 45:7 we have god creating ra', and depending on the Bible one chooses to use, for the most part this word means; "evil," "woe," "calamity," or "disaster"), none of which are desirable circumstances. So, while god is said to have created good stuff, he's also responsible for some pretty bad stuff. And in as much as these Bibles don't qualify their interpretation of ra', it's pretty clear the reader is expected to assume their common meanings.

Evil:

n.
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction:
​

Woe:

n.1. Literary intense grief or misery
2. (often plural) affliction or misfortune

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Calamity:

n. 1. a disaster or misfortune, esp one causing extreme havoc, distress, or misery
2. a state or feeling of deep distress or misery

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Disaster:

n.1. a. An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe.
b. A grave misfortune.

(Source for definitions: Collins English Dictionary or The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language)


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To my way of thinking, they all cast the god of Abraham as a downright reprehensible character.

Consider: If these terms described the work of some backwater god worshiped by primitive tribesmen, what would you make of such a deity?

Of course, I expect some will point out that all the good god does negates this evil, or __whatever__ he created, but what kind of a "schizophrenic" character is this who purposely causes people to suffer, but also causes them to find delight in their world?

And, as for the the notion that we need evil to make good meaningful. Give me a break. "
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Creating calamity for unreformable evildoers is neither wrong nor reprehensible in my book. God is fully justified in bringing an end to willful sinners. I agree with you that "the notion that we need evil to make good meaningful" is entirely wrong. I'm not sure who said this, but I am sure it wasn't me.

 

[Skwim]

Though many Bibles use the word "evil at Isaiah 45:7, this is not in disagreement with the context, though it is more accurately rendered as "calamity", based upon the context.

Your hubris is duly noted. But it's nice you still feel "evil" is contextually appropriate. However, considering the difference in meaning between "evil" and "calamity" I fail to see how the two could both work (albeit your claim that "calamity" works better) so please explain this commonality, especially in light of their meanings.

"evil": The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness

"calamity": a great misfortune or disaster,
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One being a human quality and the other an event.

Truth is, those who put 57% of the Bibles together felt that "the quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness" best describes what god had created.

Whichever Bible you use is not important, but that a person can begin to understand why God is "creating evil".

Good! at least you finally agree that god did, in fact, bring the morally bad, morally wrong, and wickedness to Earth.

Thus, it seems in your viewpoint, you would allow wicked or "evil" persons to continue unabated on the earth.

Whaaa . . .? Where did you ever get that notion from?

Just as a tenant will not allow his renters to destroy his buildings, so likewise will God not allow anyone to destroy the earth, but will "create evil" for them to cleanse for "meek" ones, "making peace" for them. In the near future, only "meek" ones will be living on the earth, who will not damage it but are assigned as caretakers of it forever.

"Will 'create evil'????. Excuse me, but god said, and I quote, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:" No future tense here, which would be something like, "I will . . . ," but instead the present tense: "I create." The evil is NOW in place and running quite well. Gotta say, your tap dancing here isn't getting any better.

Creating calamity for unreformable evildoers is neither wrong nor reprehensible in my book. God is fully justified in bringing an end to willful sinners. I agree with you that "the notion that we need evil to make good meaningful" is entirely wrong. I'm not sure who said this, but I am sure it wasn't me.

As I've been pointing out all along here, most Bibles translate Isaiah 45:7 as god saying he created evil. Period! No qualifications or explanations!.

 

[Prophet]

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Punishment, whether for a minute or an eternity, is beneath God.