• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Amanaki said:
Please prove God does not exist... can you?

FYI: i believe God exist, but i can not prove it. I hold a belief not a proof
Click to expand...
Part of the problem in this discussion/argument/debate with the Baha'is is that they also reject the "proofs" of things the God of Israel did in the Bible. If God really did part the seas and stop the Sun in the sky and speak from heaven and wrote the 10 commandments in stone and send manna from heaven and the many other things, then I'd be convinced God is real. But to some Baha'is those things aren't real. They didn't happen. They are just stories. And that is the same thing that some of us are saying. They are just stories. Fictional stories, Mythical stories. But, the God of those stories to some of us is also part of the myth. To some Baha'is those things in the Bible are just stories and didn't really happen, yet the God of those stories is real? Why? Are the Gods of other fictional stories of other religions real?

Just like some Christians come to us and tell us that Jesus is God. Are we right to question that belief? It is obvious that believing in the things of religion become very real to the believers. But, since these beliefs contradict the belief of people in other religions, it just doesn't seem like they both can be true... and that possibly both aren't true... But are only manmade ideas of what they see as a spiritual reality.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
Did you read Revelation or just googled "lamb" in the Bible? 'Cause you missed some. Here's a few. Rev 19:7 and 9 have " wedding supper of the Lamb", 21:9 has " the wife of the Lamb", 21:14 has "the twelve apostles of the Lamb", 21:22 has "Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple", then there is every Baha'is favorite 21:23 "the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp", then 21:27 "the Lamb’s book of life", 22:1 and 3 "the throne of God and of the Lamb".
Click to expand...
I Googled it, but it really does not matter because there is no verse in the NT wherein Jesus promised to return and Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. Therefore Revelations is not about the same man Jesus returning.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
And that's part of the flaw. It is subjective... One religions "truths" and "Gods" sounds like manmade myths to people in other religions.
Click to expand...
It will never sound the same to everyone, but it does not matter what it sounds like, it only matters what is true.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
Yes, and who gave him that title? Lots of people are named "Jesus" or "Muhammad" or the many names that end with "llah" If I said "I saw streaks of light coming through the clouds. It looked like the Glory of God." I'm not talking about a man whose title is "the glory of God", I'm talking about the light. In that verse, it could very well be meaning the "light" radiating from God. But, I know, not to Baha'is... anytime it says "The Glory of God" you take it to mean Baha'u'llah.
Click to expand...
The Baha'is know what the prophecies mean because we already determined that Baha'u'llah was the Messiah by looking at the evidence that Baha'u'llah told us to look at, as noted below. We did not use the prophecies to determine who Baha'u'llah was. You can make the Bible prophecies say anything you want them to say and thus mean what you want them to mean. Christians do that all the time, and they all come up with different scenarios of what is going to happen in the end times.
For example: #234 nPeace, Feb 23, 2019
Do you think all Christians interpret Revelations this way?

Those different beliefs alone demonstrate that the prophecies can be interpreted in many different ways, to suit what one wants to believe.

That is why do not prove anything and why Baha'u'llah never suggested using prophecies as proof.

Below is what Baha’u’llah wrote about evidence and proof. More specifically, Baha’u’llah enjoined us to look at His own Self (His character), His Revelation (His works, which can be seen in Baha'i history), and His words (His Writings).

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106
 
Last edited:
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
Yes, and who gave him that title? Lots of people are named "Jesus" or "Muhammad" or the many names that end with "llah" If I said "I saw streaks of light coming through the clouds. It looked like the Glory of God." I'm not talking about a man whose title is "the glory of God", I'm talking about the light. In that verse, it could very well be meaning the "light" radiating from God. But, I know, not to Baha'is... anytime it says "The Glory of God" you take it to mean Baha'u'llah.
Click to expand...
In case I never told you, the Name Baha'u'llah is in the Book of Revelation and there are Bibles that show this. Baha'u'llah was the Translation found in Bibles prior to 1870 until they were removed from circulation.

Bibles of 1833 and 1858 clearly showing BAHÁ'U'LLÁH IN REVELATION 21:23.

upload_2020-11-2_20-47-16.png



upload_2020-11-2_20-47-40.png
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
CG Didymus said:
Part of the problem in this discussion/argument/debate with the Baha'is is that they also reject the "proofs" of things the God of Israel did in the Bible. If God really did part the seas and stop the Sun in the sky and speak from heaven and wrote the 10 commandments in stone and send manna from heaven and the many other things, then I'd be convinced God is real. But to some Baha'is those things aren't real. They didn't happen. They are just stories. And that is the same thing that some of us are saying. They are just stories. Fictional stories, Mythical stories. But, the God of those stories to some of us is also part of the myth. To some Baha'is those things in the Bible are just stories and didn't really happen, yet the God of those stories is real? Why? Are the Gods of other fictional stories of other religions real?

Just like some Christians come to us and tell us that Jesus is God. Are we right to question that belief? It is obvious that believing in the things of religion become very real to the believers. But, since these beliefs contradict the belief of people in other religions, it just doesn't seem like they both can be true... and that possibly both aren't true... But are only manmade ideas of what they see as a spiritual reality.
Click to expand...
Of course you have your right to question it when you disagree :) but an other problem is when a certain member go around and around, and never take anything and evaluating the answers that are given, and deny existence of God no matter what others say, then turn other peoples words utside down, and tell them. You are wrong.

Religion is belief in the existence of God, and belief in the teachings given.
 
PAUL MARKHAM

PAUL MARKHAM

Well-Known Member
how many religions are there - Google Search

So 10,000 messenger all getting different versions from the same source. Even if it's 2 closely related religions this number proves they were started by Men. A Man disagreed with the accepted version and changed it to suit his needs. Once you start comparing the vast differences in some you can see the flaw. Saying that they are like that to suit the people, not the god doesn't make it true or acceptable.

Coming up with a new religion or version of a religion requires better evidence than is being presented.

We need accurate evidence of how the Universe, Earth, Species, Man were made. Not a Bronze Age understanding of them. We need scientific evidence that major events did happen by the actions of this god. What we don't need is proof the bible is wrong, because if it did not come from a god, it came from Man.

Because 9,999 of these different versions have to be from Man's own mind. No god is giving out 10,000 different versions.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Amanaki said:
Is your view on evolution the only correct answer? Do you know for certain that your understanding is the only correct answer?
Click to expand...
Any doubts there? Or someone made us out of mud? Seventh Century Middle-East science. Even the Greeks knew better.
Amanaki said:
Sorry but i do not believe in human made science.
Click to expand...
Then what would you believe in? A Seventh Century manual on how to rear camels?

Raikas, the camel herders of Rajasthan, India
geerlings_raika_011.jpg

Amanaki said:
Given to them by God maybe?
Click to expand...
May be not. If you are making a claim, give evidence.
 
Last edited:
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Aupmanyav said:
Any doubts there? Or someone made us out of mud? Seventh Century Middle-East science. Even the Greeks knew better.Then what would you believe in? A Seventh Century manual on how to rear camels?

Raikas, the camel herders of Rajasthan, India
geerlings_raika_011.jpg

May be not. If you are making a claim give evidence.
Click to expand...
I believe in religious teaching
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top