God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[Spirit of Light]

So don't tell us what god will do to evil people.

I tell my understanding and belief, i am not spokesperson for God. I have my belief.
Dont tell me what i can or can not believe. You have your right to be a non believer just as i have the right to believe even you do not believe in what i do.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I am a muslim so i follow the teaching in the Quran. It does not have to be written down in the Quran for me to think it was kick started by God

So no kickstarting taught. how does the quoran describe the creation of the earth - Google Search

 

[Spirit of Light]

So no kickstarting taught. how does the quoran describe the creation of the earth - Google Search

I just said in my previous answer to you that it does not have to be written in the Quran for me to have an understand that it was kickstart by God.

You can twist it any way you want, my answer will be the same.
I have a belief.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I just said in my previous answer to you that it does not have to be written in the Quran for me to have an understand that it was kickstart by God.

You can twist it any way you want, my answer will be the same.
I have a belief.

If Islam teaches something else that indicates it's not coming from god. If it leaves the entire episode out it means everyone can come up with their own story.

Or god knew it kickstarted evolution and didn't want to tell the truth to any of the religions and told them different stories.

There's nothing wrong with you being a Muslim or any other religion, so long as you don't advocate any of the harsh punishments Islam demands on Adulterers, Apostates, blasphemers, etc. And understand they're made by Man.

 

[Spirit of Light]

. And understand they're made by Man.

That is your belief, i do not believe religion and spiritual teaching is man made.
If you believe differently that is your free choice.

 

[Trailblazer]

Men have to start religions because there is no god to start them.

God starts religions by sending a Messenger who has a twofold station, human and divine.

Why would one message sender tell different people different messages at the same time? It makes no sense.

He doesn't. God only sends one Messenger at a time who reveals the same message to everyone.

 

[Trailblazer]

I said because there are so many fake messengers we should start with the discipline that all new ones are fake until they prove otherwise.

That's right, and Baha'u'llah has proved otherwise. Just because YOU do not recognize those proofs does not mean they do not exist.

I can see cars in the junkyard, so a terrible example.

You can also see all the false messengers if you look, and the true Messengers.

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." What has Bahaullah done to show he's a true messenger? He doesn't like wars, he thinks the whole world should come together behind him, he has no solution to modern problems.

The fruits can be seen in His Revelation which is what He accomplished (His Mission on earth/ the history of His Cause)
That can be determined by reading about His mission on books such as the following:

God Passes By (1844-1944)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.

 

[Trailblazer]

Only 5 million see it your way, so not an accepted messenger by the majority.

None of the Messengers have been accepted by the majority, but the religions that have been around a long time have more adherents because that have had more time to become established and be passed along from generation to generation. This is simple math.

“Just how small was the Christian movement in the first century is clear from the calculations of the sociologist R Stark (1996:5-7; so too Hopkins 1998:192-193).Stark begins his analysis with a rough estimation of six million Christians in the Roman Empire (or about ten percent of the total population) at the start of the fourth century... There were 1,000 Christians in the year 40, 1,400 Christians in 50, 1,960 Christians in 60, 2,744 Christians in 70, 3,842 Christians in 80, 5,378 Christians in 90 and 7,530 Christians at the end of the first century.

These figures are very suggestive, and reinforce the point that in its initial decades the Christian movement represented a tiny fraction of the ancient world.”

How many Jews became Christians in the first century?

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

It is not that easy for most people to find the new religion at the narrow gate because most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe. If they do not have a religion, most people are suspicious of the new religion and the new messenger. If they are atheists they do not like the idea of messengers of God or they think they are all phonies.

Jesus told us to enter through the narrow gate, the gate that leads to eternal life, and He said few people would find that gate... It is narrow, so it is difficult to get through... It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not normally embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel. That is human nature.

The following reasons explain why the Baha'i Faith is still small.

1. Many people have never heard of the Baha’i Faith, so they do not know there is something to look for. It is the responsibility of the Baha’is to get the message out, so if that is not happening, the Baha’is are to blame. However, there are so few Baha’is and they are busy building the New World Order, and there is only so much time, so they can only do so much.

2. But even after people know about the Baha’i Faith, most people are not even willing to look the evidence in order to determine if it is true or not.

3. Even if they are willing to look at the evidence, there is a lot of prejudice before even getting out the door to look at the evidence.

4. 84% of people in the world already have a religion and they are happy with their religion so they have no interest in a “new religion.”

5. The rest of the world’s population is agnostics or atheists or believers who are prejudiced against all religion.

6. Agnostics or atheists and atheists and believers who have no religion either do not believe that God communicates via Messengers or they find fault with the Messenger, Baha’u’llah.

7. Baha’u’llah brought new teachings and laws that are very different from the older religions so many people are suspicious of those teachings and/or don’t like the laws because some laws require them to give things up that they like doing.

 

[Trailblazer]

Give us evidence he was a messenger of god.

I have already posted that, a zillion times.

 

[Trailblazer]

Can you prove your car is blue to a colorblind man?
No matter how you explain the Color to him, he still only see contrasts from white to Black. To a colorblind person colors does not exist, but you know your car is blue ( blue is of course just an example, i dont know the Colorado of your car)

Of course we all know that Jesus talked about the blind who do not see, and Muhammad probably also said something about them, and Baha'u'llah also had something to say about the blind. (He was addressing the Babis, the people of the Bayan who rejected Him.)

“Say: So great is the glory of the Cause of God that even the blind can perceive it, how much more they whose sight is sharp, whose vision is pure. The blind, though unable to perceive the light of the sun, are, nevertheless, capable of experiencing its continual heat. The blind in heart, however, among the people of the Bayán—and to this God is My witness—are impotent, no matter how long the Sun may shine upon them, either to perceive the radiance of its glory, or to appreciate the warmth of its rays.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 106

 

[Trailblazer]

No god removed Hitler and Stalin.

Because that is not in God's job description.

 

[Trailblazer]

This list is the flaw in Bahaullah's thinking. What does he propose we do with such people?

Let them run their course until they are replaced by good people.

God does not carry a stopwatch.

 

[CG Didymus]

There was not only Baha'u'llah but a whole group that chose to be exiled with him. The Faithful and many died. Over 70 made it to Akka.

From the voyage an eye witness account.

"In this small boat," one of the prisoners related, "we, seventy-two persons, were crowed together in unspeakable conditions for eleven days of horror. Ten soldiers and two officers were our escort. There was an appalling smell in the boat, and most of us were very ill indeed. We had embarked so hurriedly that we had been unable to provide for the voyage and a few loaves and a little cheese. . . was all the food we had for those indescribably days. . . . There was no vessel. . . our lack of food had reduced us to a seriously weak state of health."

You can read the last part of the journey.

From Adrianople to Akka

Regards Tony

When we're talking about a prophecy about the Messiah, I would think the prophecy would say "He". Still, can you comment on the context of Micah chapter 7?

Micah 7:12 There shall be a day when they shall come unto thee, from Assyria even to the cities of Egypt, and from Egypt even to the River, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 And the land shall be desolate for them that dwell therein, because of the fruit of their doings.
14 Tend Thy people with Thy staff, the flock of Thy heritage, that dwell solitarily, as a forest in the midst of the fruitful field; let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 'As in the days of thy coming forth out of the land of Egypt will I show unto him marvellous things.'
16 The nations shall see and be put to shame for all their might; they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent; like crawling things of the earth they shall come trembling out of their close places; they shall come with fear unto the LORD our God, and shall be afraid because of Thee.
18 Who is a God like unto Thee, that pardoneth the iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of His heritage? He retaineth not His anger for ever, because He delighteth in mercy.
19 He will again have compassion upon us; He will subdue our iniquities; and Thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
20 Thou wilt show faithfulness to Jacob, mercy to Abraham, as Thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.

 

[CG Didymus]

Christ does and did not die, as also Baha'u'llah does not die. They are the same Holy Spirit in a New Name.

The bodies we knew as Jesus and Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí have.

Regards Tony

So to Baha'is anything that would say something about "reigning forever" or anything similar is just symbolic?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So to Baha'is anything that would say something about "reigning forever" or anything similar is just symbolic?

I see it is in Spirit and in Fact. There has been no break in the chain of Revelations from the beginning.

God will continue to send the Messengers until the end.

Regards Tony

 

[Goddess Kit]

A message is only as important as the reader wants it to be via subjective interpretation.

It is, therefore, unrealistic to expect a particular message to be important to everyone.

 

[Trailblazer]

A message is only as important as the reader wants it to be via subjective interpretation.

It is, therefore, unrealistic to expect a particular message to be important to everyone.

That's right, and that is why all people are not of the same religion, at least not presently.

Welcome to RF.

 

[CG Didymus]

Here are the verses I found that mention the Lamb, but I do not see any verses where it says the Lamb will return to earth.

Revelation 5:9; Revelation 5:12; Revelation 13:8; Isaiah 53:7; John 1:29; John 1:36; 1 Peter 1:19

9 And they sang ua new song, saying,

“Worthy are you to take the scroll

and to open its seals,

for vyou were slain, and by your blood wyou ransomed people for God

from xevery tribe and language and people and nation,

12 saying with a loud voice,

a“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain,

to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might

and honor and glory and blessing!”

8 and all awho dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in bthe book of life of cthe Lamb dwho was slain.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,

syet he opened not his mouth;

tlike a ulamb that is led to the slaughter,

and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,

so he opened not his mouth.

Behold, the Lamb of God
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, xthe Lamb of God, who ytakes away the sin zof the world!

36 and he looked at Jesus as he walked by and said, “Behold, ithe Lamb of God!”

19 but twith the precious blood of Christ, like that of ua lamb vwithout blemish or spot.

Revelation 5:9; Revelation 5:12; Revelation 13:8; Isaiah 53:7; John 1:29; John 1:36; 1 Peter 1:19

Did you read Revelation or just googled "lamb" in the Bible? 'Cause you missed some. Here's a few. Rev 19:7 and 9 have " wedding supper of the Lamb", 21:9 has " the wife of the Lamb", 21:14 has "the twelve apostles of the Lamb", 21:22 has "Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple", then there is every Baha'is favorite 21:23 "the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp", then 21:27 "the Lamb’s book of life", 22:1 and 3 "the throne of God and of the Lamb".

 

[CG Didymus]

That's right, and that is why all people are not of the same religion, at least not presently.

Welcome to RF.

And that's part of the flaw. It is subjective... One religions "truths" and "Gods" sounds like manmade myths to people in other religions.

 

[CG Didymus]

I finally found what I was looking for about the Lamb because the verses were in that video.

Like I said in a previous post, context makes it sound like Baha'u'llah. not Jesus.

Bahá'u'lláh, which means the glory of God in Arabic, was born Mirza Husayn Ali in 1817 into one of Persia's most noble and privileged families.Sep 28, 2009

Religions - Bahai: Bahá'u'lláh - BBC

Revelation 21:23-24

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Yes, and who gave him that title? Lots of people are named "Jesus" or "Muhammad" or the many names that end with "llah" If I said "I saw streaks of light coming through the clouds. It looked like the Glory of God." I'm not talking about a man whose title is "the glory of God", I'm talking about the light. In that verse, it could very well be meaning the "light" radiating from God. But, I know, not to Baha'is... anytime it says "The Glory of God" you take it to mean Baha'u'llah.