"Giada, the inner beauty thing is just nonsense"

[Estro Felino]

Have you spoken to all the males of your town? Every single one?

I live in a small town. Maybe you don't know how it feels when males talk to you just to get your sister's number...or to use u as a matchmaker.

 

[Riverwolf]

I live in a small town. Maybe you don't know how it feels when males talk to you just to get your sister's number...or to use u as a matchmaker.

I do not. I live in a suburban town, and don't have a sister in any case.

I've never even heard of what you're describing happening outside of high school.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I do not. I live in a suburban town, and don't have a sister in any case.

I've never even heard of what you're describing happening outside of high school.

Exactly.

 

[dust1n]

I personally find it extraordinary that there is a guy who exists who wanted to **** or date but didn't because the shaming of their friends.

I don't think I've ever actually seen a group of guys attempt to dissuade anyone ever for anything like this. And secondly, given all my experiences, I seriously doubt this commonly prevents a male from doing what they want to anyways. If this ever did happen, I would expect a male to lose friends far before they were dissuaded from doing anything.

I don't think I've ever seen a guy give any other guy mockery at the mention of sex.

Anyways, I'm sure it happens, but I avoid all kinds of people for all sorts of reasons. If you were going to spend much time insulting my girlfriend, I'm not really sure why I would be expected to hang out with that person, let alone confide in them anything.

 

[Estro Felino]

The problem here is that people underestimate what men want from women and what women could give to them.
I will make a demand-supply speech, like in Economics.

Men are aroused when they see a pretty woman wearing sexy clothes showing her breasts and legs. and being sexed up is normal: it's nature. It's not something men should be ashamed of.

Women know it and wear those clothes to draw their attention and to be watched.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The problem here is that people underestimate what men want from women and what women could give to them.
I will make a demjextsandly speech, like in Economics.

Men are aroused when they see a pretty woman wearing sexy clothes showing her breasts and legs. and being sexed up is normal: it's nature. It's not something men should be ashamed of.

Women know it and wear those clothes to draw their attention and to be watched.

period. It's a supply-demand thing.
I don't think it's something aberrant. It's nature
I have the impression that certain people do any thing to prevent men from being sexually aroused or distracted by women.

Speak for yourself. The petty shallowness you describe is only an attribute of a subset of men; not all of us are one-dimensional misogynists who treat women like sex objects and view them as primarily existing to satisfy men's desires.

 

[dust1n]

The problem here is that people underestimate what men want from women and what women could give to them.
I will make a demand-supply speech, like in Economics.

Men are aroused when they see a pretty woman wearing sexy clothes showing her breasts and legs. and being sexed up is normal: it's nature. It's not something men should be ashamed of.

Women know it and wear those clothes to draw their attention and to be watched.

period. It's a supply-demand thing.
I don't think it's something aberrant. It's nature
I have the impression that certain people do any thing to prevent men from being sexually aroused or distracted by women.

Your concept of "nature" and "natural selection" are horribly inaccurate and loaded and biased.

Why do you think ugly people continue to exist? I'll tell you. Because human reproduction has persisted regardless how pretty or ugly someone is. The "natural" conclusion is because there are other things at play other than the guys look at pretty things and then persist on having sex with that theory. Physical appearance certainly plays a great deal in how people perceive each other, but far from everything. Human perceptions are often flawed and baseless anyways.

I find intelligence to be the most highly valued human attribute, for the most part, next maybe only to empathy. And I suspect that these are far more valuable from an evolutionary stand point, than the female gender constantly maintaining a facade of beauty, one that even if maintained is short-lived and ultimately unsatisfactory, all for the sake of acquiring the affection of a guy who is not even capable of actual human affection at all, if all he cares about is how people look.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

The problem here is that people underestimate what men want from women and what women could give to them.

Can you please stop speaking for all men? There have been numerous men in this thread who have disagreed with you, some vehemently so. I suggest expanding your scope past your own nose when it comes to the human condition.

I will make a demand-supply speech, like in Economics.

Men are aroused when they see a pretty woman wearing sexy clothes showing her breasts and legs. and being sexed up is normal: it's nature. It's not something men should be ashamed of.

Women know it and wear those clothes to draw their attention and to be watched.

period. It's a supply-demand thing.
I don't think it's something aberrant. It's nature

The sexual economy is an archaic construct, though it's obvious that some will continue to hold on to these myths of human nature for their convenience or for the sake of argument.

I have the impression that certain people do any thing to prevent men from being sexually aroused or distracted by women.

Now, please stop talking about women as if we are products on a shelf for men's amusement. Such views degrade both men and women.

Men can be sexually aroused by women, but it's not up to you to determine who and how.

 

[Father Heathen]

Hay, why can't you accept that, in more advanced societies, couples can easily please and fulfill one another in happy, healthy relationships with mutual respect and equality; all without following your silly, infantile "rules"?

 

[Estro Felino]

Why do you think ugly people continue to exist? I'll tell you. Because human reproduction has persisted regardless how pretty or ugly someone is. The "natural" conclusion is because there are other things at play other than the guys look at pretty things and then persist on having sex with that theory. Physical appearance certainly plays a great deal in how people perceive each other, but far from everything. Human perceptions are often flawed and baseless anyways.

I am not expressing my view on what happens in real life. I am just analyzing what happens.as the movie does by portraying a fictitious but absolutely realistic situation
Generally pretty people seek pretty people. Of course there are rare cases (exceptions) in which pretty people fall in love with ugly people for their "inner beauty".
period.
it's just reality- should we force pretty people to fall in love with ugly people because we think that this is unjust and unfair?

ugly people's life would be much easier if they were pretty. it's a fact

Of course one can flee from reality and think that life is less cruel than it really is. It's just illusion

 

[Koldo]

thoughts?

Inner beauty is not nonsense. Far from that. If you intend to be in a lasting relationship with someone it matters a LOT more than mere appearance. The truth is, however, that physical beauty tends to make some things a lot easier. Since people don't tend to date who they consider to be ugly, there are more people who you could possibly have a romantic relationship with if your kind of beauty is appealing to a larger scope of people.

 

[Father Heathen]

It's easy to see why those who don't possess it would dismiss inner-beauty as "nonsense." As for outer-beauty, it's absurd to suggest that there is only one "right" standard when each individual has their own personal tastes.
Also, no amount of outer-beauty offsets having a repulsive character and personality (like the male characters in Hay's silly movie.)

 

[Riverwolf]

The problem here is that people underestimate what men want from women and what women could give to them.

I think you overestimate what people outside your region are like.

Men are aroused when they see a pretty woman wearing sexy clothes showing her breasts and legs.

Not all men care about breasts and legs. What "pretty" and "sexy" mean is also highly, highly variant.

Women know it and wear those clothes to draw their attention and to be watched.

Some do. Others only do it out of social pressure, but wouldn't otherwise.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

This title is between brackets because it is a quotation from an Italian movie Come tu mi vuoi (transl. As you want me to look like).
It tells the story of a college girl named Giada who falls in love with a college young man. She does't care much about her looks, and she defends the importance of inner beauty.
This guys seems to like her, but then she finds out that he's ashamed of going out with her, because he doesn't want to be ridiculed by his friends (who think that Giada is really ugly and uncool) .
Then she decides to change her looks after her roommate tells her: Ah, Giada, the inner beauty story is pure bull...it. Only beautiful people can like each other. It's natural selection.

and in fact she changes her looks totally. This movie suggests us that inner beauty unfortunately is not sufficient in the world we live in

here is the before and after

before

after

thoughts?

It's the result of acceptance of evolution theory that people ignore God the holy spirit, but they ignore the human spirit just as well.

 

[Riverwolf]

Generally pretty people seek pretty people. Of course there are rare cases (exceptions)

They are not rare cases or exceptions. There's no such thing as an objective standard for "pretty" or "ugly"; they're entirely subjective.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

They are not rare cases or exceptions. There's no such thing as an objective standard for "pretty" or "ugly"; they're entirely subjective.

....but if I remember correctly, you don't accept subjectivity is valid, the way it is in common discourse.

Your acceptance and support for subjectivity is actually a rejection of common subjectivity as wrong.

 

[Riverwolf]

....but if I remember correctly, you don't accept subjectivity is valid, the way it is in common discourse.

Your acceptance and support for subjectivity is actually a rejection of common subjectivity as wrong.

Explain, because I never claimed to "not accept subjectivity as valid."

Subjective is subjective, regardless of how many subjects are in question.

 

[Estro Felino]

They are not rare cases or exceptions. There's no such thing as an objective standard for "pretty" or "ugly"; they're entirely subjective.

read Koldo's answer. the underlined part, especially

Inner beauty is not nonsense. Far from that. If you intend to be in a lasting relationship with someone it matters a LOT more than mere appearance. The truth is, however, that physical beauty tends to make some things a lot easier. Since people don't tend to date who they consider to be ugly, there are more people who you could possibly have a romantic relationship with if your kind of beauty is appealing to a larger scope of people.

the fact that your beauty may be appealing to a very wide range of people, suggests me that beauty tends to be objective

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Explain, because I never claimed to "not accept subjectivity as valid."

Subjective is subjective, regardless of how many subjects are in question.

Because if memory serves I saw you posting in support of evolution theory.

Subjective is subjective does not validate subjectivity.

 

[Riverwolf]

read Koldo's answer. the underlined part, especially

the fact that your beauty may be appealing to a very wide range of people, suggests me that beauty tend to be objective

There's no such thing as "tend to be objective". Even if everyone agreed on what constituted beauty, it would still be subjective. The reason is because beauty is a subject-object relationship.

This is demonstrated by the fact that standards of beauty have IMMENSE variation across cultures and time. Remember that in Europe not a few centuries ago, it was far sexier to be more corpulent than a skeleton.