Genocide

[Fallen Prophet]

Were there more people killed for non-religious than religious reasons in atrocities in history?

According to the Encyclopedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known/recorded historical conflicts, 123, or 6.98%, had religion as their primary cause.

 

[ChristineM]

According to the Encyclopedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known/recorded historical conflicts, 123, or 6.98%, had religion as their primary cause.

Primary? How about any reason, like we are going to war because *________* but our god is on our side and condones our aggression so its all good.

* fill in the blank

Or wars primarily on ethnic grounds but instigated by religious leaders like the Rwandan genocide.

I have a list of around 50 religious wars, the death toll for them is up to 800 million (depending on which side does the counting). And you say there another 73 to take into account... interesting

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Primary? How about any reason, like we are going to war because *________* but our god is on our side and condones our aggression so its all good.

* fill in the blank

Or wars primarily on ethnic grounds but instigated by religious leaders like the Rwandan genocide.

I have a list of around 50 religious wars, the death toll for them is up to 800 million (depending on which side does the counting). And you say there another 73 to take into account... interesting

Which leaves 1,640 - which is 93.02% of all known/recorded historical conflicts - that did not have religion as their primary cause.

I understand you have an agenda to try and blame religion for human strife - but humans are creatures of conflict - religion cannot be blamed for human nature.

 

[ChristineM]

Which leaves 1,640 - which is 93.02% of all known/recorded historical conflicts - that did not have religion as their primary cause.

I understand you have an agenda to try and blame religion for human strife - but humans are creatures of conflict - religion cannot be blamed for human nature.

Human nature created religion in its image

Primary cause is a hot potato. There are many causes of war, direct religious control is not necessary, but in many cases religion has a finger on the button

And not really an agenda, just experience.

 

[Vinayaka]

Were there more people killed for non-religious than religious reasons in atrocities in history?

Hard to tell. Both are atrocities, and in each case it means dehumanising the other side, and forcing one's views on another society by force. So the principle is the same no matter which way it went.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Human nature created religion in its image

Primary cause is a hot potato. There are many causes of war, direct religious control is not necessary, but in many cases religion has a finger on the button

And not really an agenda, just experience.

Experience with no supporting evidence and predictable arguments.

A narrative. An agenda. A bias.

None of that changes the known facts about human conflict.

We fight over everything - and the vast majority is not religion.

 

[ChristineM]

Experience with no supporting evidence and predictable arguments.

A narrative. An agenda. A bias.

None of that changes the known facts about human conflict.

We fight over everything - and the vast majority is not religion.

Rather like your agenda to absolve religious teaching of responsibility. Fair enough.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Rather like your agenda to absolve religious teaching of responsibility. Fair enough.

That makes no sense.

If someone acts contrary to a religious teaching - then the religious teaching bears no responsibility for that action.

It is very simple logic.

 

[ChristineM]

That makes no sense.

If someone acts contrary to a religious teaching - then the religious teaching bears no responsibility for that action.

It is very simple logic.

The religious teaching teaches genocide, murder, theft, rape, slavery etc. So committing any of those atrosoties dies not act contrary to religious teaching.


And yes, people act on those teachings either consciously or unconsciously

You can of course excuse them by saying "God's will" but it doesn't fix the problem

 

[Fallen Prophet]

The religious teaching teaches genocide, murder, theft, rape, slavery etc. So committing any of those atrosoties dies not act contrary to religious teaching.


And yes, people act on those teachings either consciously or unconsciously

You can of course excuse them by saying "God's will" but it doesn't fix the problem

I believe that you are confused.

The Bible recording instances of genocide, murder, theft, rape, slavery, etc. - is not a "religious teaching" - but an accounting of past events.

Yes - God commanded His covenant people to destroy those who had "ripened in iniquity" - but that does not make it a "religious teaching" - and unless you can point to an example of God personally commanding the commencement of any of these other wars - you have no argument.

Your argument is like claiming that since a State allows the execution of criminals who have been convicted of committing high crimes - that the State also condones the wanton murder of citizens by other citizens.

Also - theft and rape were strictly forbidden in the Law of Moses and those who committed them faced severe punishment if discovered - even death.

Slavery was a constant in the ancient world and the Law of Moses spared many prisoners of war as slaves who would eventually earn their freedom through service.

Again - since there is no evidence of God commanding the reimplementation of the Law of Moses today - you have no argument.

People who do things contrary to the established teachings of their religion bear the responsibility of their actions - not the religion.

I'm guessing you are one of those who blamed Trump for the Jan 6 riot even though he told everyone to be peaceful.

 

[ChristineM]

I believe that you are confused.

The Bible recording instances of genocide, murder, theft, rape, slavery, etc. - is not a "religious teaching" - but an accounting of past events.

Yes - God commanded His covenant people to destroy those who had "ripened in iniquity" - but that does not make it a "religious teaching" - and unless you can point to an example of God personally commanding the commencement of any of these other wars - you have no argument.

Your argument is like claiming that since a State allows the execution of criminals who have been convicted of committing high crimes - that the State also condones the wanton murder of citizens by other citizens.

Also - theft and rape were strictly forbidden in the Law of Moses and those who committed them faced severe punishment if discovered - even death.

Slavery was a constant in the ancient world and the Law of Moses spared many prisoners of war as slaves who would eventually earn their freedom through service.

Again - since there is no evidence of God commanding the reimplementation of the Law of Moses today - you have no argument.

People who do things contrary to the established teachings of their religion bear the responsibility of their actions - not the religion.

I'm guessing you are one of those who blamed Trump for the Jan 6 riot even though he told everyone to be peaceful.

No i am not confused, i speak as i find from evidence without the confirmation bias of some people.

If not a religious teaching then why is it in the bible as gods will? Go on tell me you are one of those selective readers, the good bits are gods but we deny the bad bits... many don't.

Forbidden or no, it did not stop god condoning them... you want verses are do you know enough about rhe bible to accept that fact?

We are not talking state, we are talking religion so no need to strawman

You can guess all you want,i am not American and dont give a damn what gropy boy did to help incite the riots

 

[Fallen Prophet]

No i am not confused, i speak as i find from evidence without the confirmation bias of some people.

Pot calling the kettle black.

If not a religious teaching then why is it in the bible as gods will?

God's will and a religious teaching are not the same thing. I don't know why you would think they were.

God commanded the Israelites to destroy the ancient inhabitants of Palestine. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it - but that does not mean that Christianity teaches the faithful to kill people.

In order for you to make that claim you would need the Bible - or a living prophet like the Israelites had Moses and Joshua - to command Christians to kill other people.

And - even from a cursory glance of the New Testament - it is apparent that no such command exists.

The Lord Jesus Christ commanded His followers to love everyone - even their enemies.

Go on tell me you are one of those selective readers, the good bits are gods but we deny the bad bits... many don't.

And you are one of those selective readers that denies the good and focuses only on the perceived "bad" - even though God and the Israelites were justified in wiping out the ancient inhabitants of Palestine.

Forbidden or no, it did not stop god condoning them... you want verses are do you know enough about rhe bible to accept that fact?

God has never condoned theft or rape.

He has commanded His covenant people to remove those guilty of various sins and also to spare many of their enemies by making them temporary slaves.

We are not talking state, we are talking religion so no need to strawman

We are not talking state or religion - but about individuals who decided to act contrary to the established beliefs of the religion they claimed to follow.

Why is it that everyone bends over backwards to defend Islam with, "Not all Muslims" - but Christians are all blamed for the acts of a few?

Muhammad actually condoned terror and violence - while Christ preached tolerance and love.

You can't blame Christianity for Christians who act contrary to the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. That makes no sense.

You can guess all you want,i am not American and dont give a damn what gropy boy did to help incite the riots

You don't need to be an American to have an opinion about Trump - which you just proved by sharing your misguided "gropy boy" jab.

A few decades ago he claimed that women were willing to let him grope them because of who he was and everyone claims that that admission was tantamount to rape.

It's not surprising since those same people blame all Christians for the actions of those who profess to be Christian but act contrary to the religion's teachings.

Completely irrational.

Also - Trump did not incite any riot. He told people to assemble peacefully.

Unreasonable and irrational.

 

[ChristineM]

Pot calling the kettle black.

Right, i not the one defending genocide, murder, rape, theft and slavery.

God's will and a religious teaching are not the same thing. I don't know why you would think they were.

Tell the religious teachers that.

And you are one of those selective readers that denies the good and focuses only on the perceived "bad" - even though God and the Israelites were justified in wiping out the ancient inhabitants of Palestine.

You know bugger all about me which explains why your guess is badly flawed.

What? So you day genocide is justified when you want to steal (that's theft) land?

God has never condoned theft or rape.

See above paragraph also do you think taking virgins from captured peoples, keeping the virgins to become wives of the captors and killing the rest does not constitute rape?

We are not talking state or religion

You introduced state, the conversation was religion

Why is it that everyone bends over backwards to defend Islam with, "Not all Muslims" - but Christians are all blamed for the acts of a few?

Why is it that christians think any slight against one is a slight against them all??? FYI, i have been seriously hurt 4 times in my life, each time at the hands of christians, never muslims. And still my best friend is a devout Christian so next time you want to imply something check whsr the **** you are talking about.

Muhammad actually condoned terror and violence - while Christ preached tolerance and love.

According to the bible, it is my thought having studied roman history of the period that JC was the illigitimate child of a Roman soldier who grew to become a terrorist and was given a traitors execution.

You can't blame Christianity for Christians who act contrary to the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ.

So you say 85% of the bible should be scrapped?

"gropy boy"

. If you support people who openly admit to groping women then we are done,no wonder you are ok with rape... Godbye

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Right, i not the one defending genocide, murder, rape, theft and slavery.

I do not believe that either of us are defending these things.

Where exactly did I defend these things? Are you capable of being specific? Quoting me?

Tell the religious teachers that.

They do know that - which is why we are having this discussion.

God commanding the ancient Israelites to reclaim the land that He promised them has no bearing on the Christian ideology to love our enemies as ourselves.

None of this changes the fact that the vast majority of all recorded conflict did not have religion as its primary cause.

You know bugger all about me which explains why your guess is badly flawed.

You were the one who claimed that I was a "selective reader" and now here you are not being able to handle your own medicine?

What? So you day genocide is justified when you want to steal (that's theft) land?

I think I know what you are talking about - but I want you to build your case.

What exactly are you talking about? In detail. Using references.

See above paragraph also do you think taking virgins from captured peoples, keeping the virgins to become wives of the captors and killing the rest does not constitute rape?

Again - I think I know what you are talking about - but I want you to build your case.

What exactly are you talking about? In detail. Using references.

You introduced state, the conversation was religion

Since the issue was lost on you when looked at through the spectrum of religion - I was trying to provide a secular analogy.

God commanding His covenant people to destroy the wicked at one time is not grounds to argue that He always wants the faithful starting wars or killing people.

Just like how State-sanctioned death - execution - is not grounds for every citizen to start murdering people.

Why is it that christians think any slight against one is a slight against them all???

That is literally what your argument is.

This whole thing began with you claiming that religion was the instigator of all war and human strife.

I accurately pointed out that was by far not the case.

To which you claimed in Post #47 that I was trying to "absolve religious teaching of responsibility".

And I replied in Post #48 by saying, "If someone acts contrary to a religious teaching - then the religious teaching bears no responsibility for that action."

So - yes - you are trying to blame the entire ideology for the actions of the very few.

FYI, i have been seriously hurt 4 times in my life, each time at the hands of christians, never muslims.

Irrelevant - and another attempt by you to blame an entire ideology for the actions of the very few.

You are making this too easy mate.

And still my best friend is a devout Christian so next time you want to imply something check whsr the **** you are talking about.

You mean the fact that the vast majority of all recorded conflicts (93.02%) did not have religion as a primary cause?

Or the fact that you are vainly trying to blame religion for all human conflict and strife?

According to the bible, it is my thought having studied roman history of the period that JC was the illigitimate child of a Roman soldier who grew to become a terrorist and was given a traitors execution.

So - you don't deny that Muhammad condoned terror and violence? Good to know.

And your thoughts on the matter are not relevant. There are no Roman records proving that the Lord Jesus Christ even existed.

And in order for Him to be considered a terrorist He would have needed to use fear, intimidation, coercion or violence in pursuit of political gain.

At most you could call him a heretic or blasphemer - because He disagreed with and taught against the status quo.

So you say 85% of the bible should be scrapped?

How did you come to this ridiculous conclusion?

If you support people who openly admit to groping women then we are done,no wonder you are ok with rape... Godbye

There is nothing wrong with groping women who are willing - or encouraging - you to grope them.

He never claimed that he did anything against anyone's will. He said that those women "let him" do those things. 100% consensual.

Are you also arguing that consensual sex is rape?

You sound like someone who went to university. Lack critical thinking. Can't think for yourself. Waiting for that state-owned media to tell you how to feel.

 

[ChristineM]

I do not believe that either of us are defending these things.

Where exactly did I defend these things? Are you capable of being specific? Quoting me?

They do know that - which is why we are having this discussion.

God commanding the ancient Israelites to reclaim the land that He promised them has no bearing on the Christian ideology to love our enemies as ourselves.

None of this changes the fact that the vast majority of all recorded conflict did not have religion as its primary cause.

You were the one who claimed that I was a "selective reader" and now here you are not being able to handle your own medicine?

I think I know what you are talking about - but I want you to build your case.

What exactly are you talking about? In detail. Using references.

Again - I think I know what you are talking about - but I want you to build your case.

What exactly are you talking about? In detail. Using references.

Since the issue was lost on you when looked at through the spectrum of religion - I was trying to provide a secular analogy.

God commanding His covenant people to destroy the wicked at one time is not grounds to argue that He always wants the faithful starting wars or killing people.

Just like how State-sanctioned death - execution - is not grounds for every citizen to start murdering people.

That is literally what your argument is.

This whole thing began with you claiming that religion was the instigator of all war and human strife.

I accurately pointed out that was by far not the case.

To which you claimed in Post #47 that I was trying to "absolve religious teaching of responsibility".

And I replied in Post #48 by saying, "If someone acts contrary to a religious teaching - then the religious teaching bears no responsibility for that action."

So - yes - you are trying to blame the entire ideology for the actions of the very few.

Irrelevant - and another attempt by you to blame an entire ideology for the actions of the very few.

You are making this too easy mate.

You mean the fact that the vast majority of all recorded conflicts (93.02%) did not have religion as a primary cause?

Or the fact that you are vainly trying to blame religion for all human conflict and strife?

So - you don't deny that Muhammad condoned terror and violence? Good to know.

And your thoughts on the matter are not relevant. There are no Roman records proving that the Lord Jesus Christ even existed.

And in order for Him to be considered a terrorist He would have needed to use fear, intimidation, coercion or violence in pursuit of political gain.

At most you could call him a heretic or blasphemer - because He disagreed with and taught against the status quo.

How did you come to this ridiculous conclusion?

There is nothing wrong with groping women who are willing - or encouraging - you to grope them.

He never claimed that he did anything against anyone's will. He said that those women "let him" do those things. 100% consensual.

Are you also arguing that consensual sex is rape?

You sound like someone who went to university. Lack critical thinking. Can't think for yourself. Waiting for that state-owned media to tell you how to feel.

Your opinion is noted but i will add.


Works both ways

Yes some religious teachers, holy book literalists teach the bible ax written, not as interpreted.

So you say the OT is not relevant to Christianity? I know several christians with a different view

I can handle whatever you throw, you are confusing indifference with your caring about your posts

I am talking about the OT and you know it.

Gid commanding genocide is always worth noting, but some may sweep it under the carpet because it pops their bubble

No, my argument is against the atrosities of the bible, not politics

I never made such a claim, not once did i say "all war" unless you
can prove otherwise perhaps you are confused.

Wrong, making an unfounded claim that massages your ego us not accurately pointing anything out. And are you not trying to absolve religious teaching for responsibility for the murders and genocide caused in the name of religion?

Look pal, what i say is there have been plenty if religious wars in which one side or both fought for their faith, or religion has played part in causing the war, genocide, mass deaths, massacres. Considering you are so insistent it all too little to care about i will provide the list i have compiled

"US Western Expansion (Justified by ""Manifest Destiny"")
AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms
Al Qaeda, 1993-
Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
Armenian Genocide:
Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity)
Aztec Human Sacrifice:
Muslim/Bab’i conflict, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II)
Croatia, 1991-92
Crusades, 1095-1291
Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
Eighty Years' War
English Civil War, 1642-46
First Sudanese Civil War
French Wars of Religion
Great Peasants' Revolt
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq War: 500,000
Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
Islamic Terrorism Since 2000
Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust)
Jews, 1348
Jonestown, 1978
Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92
Molucca Is., 1999-
Mongolia, 1937-39
Muslim Conquests of India
Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s-
Northern Ireland, 1974-98
Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
Second Sudanese Civil War
Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834 - 5,000
St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths)
Thirty Years War, 1618-48
Tudor England
Vietnam, 1800s
Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
Xhosa, 1857

Many are missing from your beloved Encyclopedia of Wars, perhaps because they don't consider unofficial massacre as war. In any event at the worst case the death toll can be estimated as up to 800,000,000 deaths plus

And I'll leave it here because you are going deeper into the realms of fantasy

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Yes some religious teachers, holy book literalists teach the bible ax written, not as interpreted.

That is literally impossible. Everything we read and experience is filtered through our individual "interpretation". That's life - not just scriptures.

So you say the OT is not relevant to Christianity? I know several christians with a different view

No - that is not what I said at all.

What I said was, "God commanding the ancient Israelites to reclaim the land that He promised them has no bearing on the Christian ideology to love our enemies as ourselves."

I'm going to try and share an analogy - even though I know they are hard for you to follow.

Let's say that throughout a long war there was only one general in command of our army.

At certain battles the general employed some ruthless tactics in order to gain the best advantage for his army with minimal losses at the time.

During other battles he saw fit to simply rout the enemy and let them escape. At other times he would hunker down and defend key positions.

And he would also spend time training his troops or having them engage in rebuilding efforts when appropriate.

His tactics would change depending on where his army was, the composition of the enemy army, at what point of the war the battle was fought - etc.

Now let's relate this to God.

Yes - there was a time that God commanded His covenant people to reclaim the land that He promised them.

That has no bearing on what He commands His covenant people to do today - because we are fighting different battles on different terrain at a different time against different enemies.

If a soldier disobeys a direct order today - because he is so focused on a past battle irrelevant to shi current situation - the general can't be blamed. The army can't be blamed.

Only the individual soldier is to blame.

So that is why it does not matter what God told ancient Israel to do thousands of years ago. Focus on what God has commanded us to do now.

You can judge God as harshly as you want - as I'm sure some soldiers judge their general harshly - bit He is privy to more information than you are - so you are ill-equipped to judge appropriately.

Those who lived in ancient Palestine may have been worse than the Nazis - do you judge the Allies generals harshly for them defeating the Nazis?

I can handle whatever you throw, you are confusing indifference with your caring about your posts

Naw - you cussed with all that "bugger" stuff - you got upset. Immature.

I am talking about the OT and you know it.

Yes - and that is a vast work - so go ahead and formulate your arguments and provide your references.

Basically - if you want to make a point - make it - don't just gesture vaguely at a huge book.

Gid commanding genocide is always worth noting, but some may sweep it under the carpet because it pops their bubble

Chapter and verses please.

No, my argument is against the atrosities of the bible, not politics

Wow - you really didn't get that analogy.

I never made such a claim, not once did i say "all war" unless you can prove otherwise perhaps you are confused.

You're right - you didn't say "all" - I think you said "most" and "many" - but "all", "most" and "many" are all factually incorrect - as I have already demonstrated.

Wrong, making an unfounded claim that massages your ego us not accurately pointing anything out.

I don't really know what this is in reference to.

And are you not trying to absolve religious teaching for responsibility for the murders and genocide caused in the name of religion?

Who has the authority to do anything "in the name of religion"?

If a Black man were to go and start killing a bunch of White people claiming that he did so "on behalf of all Black people" - would you blame all Black people?

Of course not - because he has no authority to speak or act on behalf of anyone but himself. You'd blame him and only him.

Unless you can quote the Lord Jesus Christ teaching His followers to start all manner of wars "in His name" - you cannot blame all Christians or Christianity for what individual Christians decide to do.

The same could be said of any other religion.

If a believer acts contrary to the professed beliefs of the religion - the religion is not to blame.

Even in the Old Testament - God did not tell the Israelites to start a bunch of wars - but to reclaim their promised land and hold it. Since we are not in the promised land - that point of history has no relevance.

Look pal, what i say is there have been plenty if religious wars in which one side or both fought for their faith, or religion has played part in causing the war, genocide, mass deaths, massacres.

There have been plenty of wars caused by religious people - which make up an insignificant portion of all recorded conflicts.

Unless you can point to the doctrine or command given by the founder of the religion - or God - you don't have a case.

Considering you are so insistent it all too little to care about i will provide the list i have compiled

"US Western Expansion (Justified by ""Manifest Destiny"")
AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms
Al Qaeda, 1993-
Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
Armenian Genocide:
Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity)
Aztec Human Sacrifice:
Muslim/Bab’i conflict, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II)
Croatia, 1991-92
Crusades, 1095-1291
Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
Eighty Years' War
English Civil War, 1642-46
First Sudanese Civil War
French Wars of Religion
Great Peasants' Revolt
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq War: 500,000
Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
Islamic Terrorism Since 2000
Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust)
Jews, 1348
Jonestown, 1978
Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92
Molucca Is., 1999-
Mongolia, 1937-39
Muslim Conquests of India
Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s-
Northern Ireland, 1974-98
Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
Second Sudanese Civil War
Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834 - 5,000
St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths)
Thirty Years War, 1618-48
Tudor England
Vietnam, 1800s
Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
Xhosa, 1857

Many are missing from your beloved Encyclopedia of Wars, perhaps because they don't consider unofficial massacre as war. In any event at the worst case the death toll can be estimated as up to 800,000,000 deaths plus

The Encyclopedia record "conflicts" - not just wars - and I believe it claimed that there were 123 conflicts that had religion as a primary motivator. Which puts your little list to shame.

And your list is laughable. It's not a list of "conflicts caused by religion" but rather "conflicts had amongst people who were religious".

I mean - the Holocaust had to with national identity and race - not religion. The Nazis didn't just kill "practicing" Jews - but those who were Hebrew.

And I'll leave it here because you are going deeper into the realms of fantasy

You just have an agenda that blinds you.

People killed each other before religion and they will continue to do so if it all magically disappeared. The human condition.

 

[ChristineM]

That is literally impossible. Everything we read and experience is filtered through our individual "interpretation". That's life - not just scriptures.

No - that is not what I said at all.

What I said was, "God commanding the ancient Israelites to reclaim the land that He promised them has no bearing on the Christian ideology to love our enemies as ourselves."

I'm going to try and share an analogy - even though I know they are hard for you to follow.

Let's say that throughout a long war there was only one general in command of our army.

At certain battles the general employed some ruthless tactics in order to gain the best advantage for his army with minimal losses at the time.

During other battles he saw fit to simply rout the enemy and let them escape. At other times he would simply hunker down and defend key positions.

His tactics would change depending on where his army was, the composition of the enemy army, at what point of the war the battle was fought - etc.

Now let's relate this to God.

Yes - there was a time that God commanded His covenant people to reclaim the land that He promised them.

That has no bearing on what He commands His covenant people to do today - because we are fighting different battles on different terrain at a different time against different enemies.

If a soldier disobeys a direct order today - because he remembered that at a different battle on different terrain at a different time against different enemies before - he had been given different orders - the general can't be blamed. The army can't be blamed.

Only the individual solder is to blame.

So that is why it does not matter what God told ancient Israel to do thousands of years ago. Focus on what God is commanded us to do now.

Naw - you cussed with all that "bugger" stuff - you got upset. Immature.

Yes - and that is a vast work - so go ahead and formulate your arguments and provide your references.

Basically - if you want to make a point - make it - don't just gesture vaguely at a huge book.

Chapter and verses please.

Wow - you really didn't get that analogy.

You're right - you didn't say "all" - I think you said "most" and "many" - but "all", "most" and "many" are all factually incorrect - as I have already demonstrated.

I don't really know what this is in reference to.

Who has the authority to do anything "in the name of religion"?

If a Black man were to go and start killing a bunch of White people claiming that he did so "on behalf of all Black people" - would you blame all Black people?

Of course not - because he has no authority to speak or act on behalf of anyone but himself. You'd blame him and only him.

Unless you can quote the Lord Jesus Christ teaching His followers to start all manner of wars "in His name" - you cannot blame all Christians or Christianity for what individual Christians decide to do.

The same could be said of any other religion.

If a believer acts contrary to the professed beliefs of the religion - the religion is not to blame.

Even in the Old Testament - God did not tell the Israelites to start a bunch of wars - but to reclaim their promised land and hold it. Since we are not in the promised land - that point of history has no relevance.

There have been plenty of wars caused by religious people - which make up an insignificant portion of all recorded conflicts.

Unless you can point to the doctrine or command given by the founder of the religion - or God - you don't have a case.

The Encyclopedia record "conflicts" - not just wars - and I believe it claimed that there were 123 conflicts that had religion as a primary motivator. Which puts your little list to shame.

And your list is laughable. It's not a list of "conflicts caused by religion" but rather "conflicts had amongst people who were religious".

I mean - the Holocaust had to with national identity and race - not religion. The Nazis didn't just kill "practicing" Jews - but those who were Hebrew.

You just have an agenda that blinds you.

People killed each other before religion and they will continue to do so if it all magically disappeared. The human condition.

Too much irrelevant waffle

 

[McBell]

Too much irrelevant waffle

You dislike waffles?

I found if you take a banana nut muffin mix, add one egg and 2/3 cup of water, mix it up really really good, and pur it on a hot waffle maker...

Mmmmmm
Mmmmmm
good.

My wife prefers the apple cinnamon flavour and my daughter really likes the blueberry.

 

[Thief]

Were there more people killed for non-religious than religious reasons in atrocities in history?

I heard somewhere......the US Civil War
killed more men per participant
than any other war ever fought

the death toll was high

so..... alot of white guys died
so black men could be free

 

[ChristineM]

You dislike waffles?

I found if you take a banana nut muffin mix, add one egg and 2/3 cup of water, mix it up really really good, and pur it on a hot waffle maker...

Mmmmmm
Mmmmmm
good.

My wife prefers the apple cinnamon flavour and my daughter really likes the blueberry.

Actually i do dislike waffles, but maybe just can't make them.

Waffle is also a Lancashire vernacular (perhaps elsewhere) for too much vague, trivial, irrelevant BS but i was being polite.