He doesn't have to prove anything. You're making the claim it's official, he looked for it, found nothing. You're claiming you know where and when it is from.
Put up or shut up.
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Genesis 11:9, Babel & the EU
- Thread starter Aberamentho
- Start date
Put up or shut up.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
I didn't say it was a hoax - I'm just saying I have no good reason to believe it's genuine.
The question is: WHY are you certain that it is official? Where is your information coming from?
Yes. Normally, when making a claim, it is useful to provide a source for the claim. Especially if, when searching for it yourself, you can't find any solid information.
Do you have any idea how many websites there are out there that make claims like "lizards control the world"? "9/11 was a hoax"? "Aliens kidnapped me and stole my dog"? How many of them do you believe are credible?
Of course not. But they provide very little, if any, evidence that they are true. We don't just accept something just because it hasn't been demonstrated to be false. We accept things when there is a good reason to accept them. This is why you (presumably) don't believe in the existence of fairies, smurfs and elves.
No, it's still a theory if it's a proposed explanation. The theory could be true, but it would still be a theoretical framework.
No, you're just accepting what these sites tell you as being true without actually looking into it.
And I would say you should be less gullible and put more effort into determining fact from fantasy.
Anyone can make a picture. Like this:
See that poster above? You made that and put it on your bedroom wall ten years ago.* Prove me wrong!
It means someone drew a picture of the tower of Babel and labelled it as Council of Europe poster and it may or may not have been used.
I can't find any source on the poster at all, so I can' really determine anything about it other than its existence.
Not really. Refusal of belief is not a conspiracy.
It's a potential explanation for the image, sure. I don't know if it's true any more than I know that it is a genuine poster, but I wouldn't put it past anyone. Have you never seen political cartoons? They draw on powerful symbolic imagery like this all the time. It's quite possible someone could have drawn the image as a political commentary and then, years down the line, somebody saw it and mistakenly believed it was a genuine EU poster, and the story spun out from there.
Like I said, I only had one source for that claim, and it didn't provide any references.
Whereas your belief that the EU would deliberately commission a poster featuring obvious negative connotations in an effort to deliberately expose some sort of anti-Christian agenda makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I'm a fan of reserving judgement, not jumping to conclusions like you.
*DISCLAIMER: Obviously I don't believe this, and nor am I seriously making this allegation - it is purely intended to illustrate a point. I'm sad that I have to put this disclaimer on here since it kind of defeats the purpose of the argument, but you can never be too careful these days.
Aberamentho
Gnosis
Who the heck are you?
I didn't make up the conspiracy theory of the EU poster hoax, I don't have to do a damn thing.
It's legitimate and nobody says it isn't but some dude on a website and I should cower because of his naivety and scramble to prove something that proves itself?
Get a life dude.
Aberamentho
Gnosis
I didn't say it was a hoax - I'm just saying I have no good reason to believe it's genuine.
The question is: WHY are you certain that it is official? Where is your information coming from?
Yes. Normally, when making a claim, it is useful to provide a source for the claim. Especially if, when searching for it yourself, you can't find any solid information.
Do you have any idea how many websites there are out there that make claims like "lizards control the world"? "9/11 was a hoax"? "Aliens kidnapped me and stole my dog"? How many of them do you believe are credible?
Of course not. But they provide very little, if any, evidence that they are true. We don't just accept something just because it hasn't been demonstrated to be false. We accept things when there is a good reason to accept them. This is why you (presumably) don't believe in the existence of fairies, smurfs and elves.
No, it's still a theory if it's a proposed explanation. The theory could be true, but it would still be a theoretical framework.
No, you're just accepting what these sites tell you as being true without actually looking into it.
And I would say you should be less gullible and put more effort into determining fact from fantasy.
Anyone can make a picture. Like this:
See that poster above? You made that and put it on your bedroom wall ten years ago.* Prove me wrong!
It means someone drew a picture of the tower of Babel and labelled it as Council of Europe poster and it may or may not have been used.
I can't find any source on the poster at all, so I can' really determine anything about it other than its existence.
Not really. Refusal of belief is not a conspiracy.
It's a potential explanation for the image, sure. I don't know if it's true any more than I know that it is a genuine poster, but I wouldn't put it past anyone. Have you never seen political cartoons? They draw on powerful symbolic imagery like this all the time. It's quite possible someone could have drawn the image as a political commentary and then, years down the line, somebody saw it and mistakenly believed it was a genuine EU poster, and the story spun out from there.
Like I said, I only had one source for that claim, and it didn't provide any references.
Whereas your belief that the EU would deliberately commission a poster featuring obvious negative connotations in an effort to deliberately expose some sort of anti-Christian agenda makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I'm a fan of reserving judgement, not jumping to conclusions like you.
*DISCLAIMER: Obviously I don't believe this, and nor am I seriously making this allegation - it is purely intended to illustrate a point. I'm sad that I have to put this disclaimer on here since it kind of defeats the purpose of the argument, but you can never be too careful these days.
If you can't provide a single source denying that it was put out by the EU you have no reason to doubt it.
Aberamentho
Gnosis
I get I made you look ridiculous but you don't have to get immature, bite your tongue.
He has to prove the conspiracy he claims exists to produce a fake poster by the EU and a fake building too because it's modelled on that painting.
As well as proof that Christians didn't protest it resulting in its discontinuation of use.
Because he brought it up.
Nitwit
Aberamentho
Gnosis
It doesn't originate with my investigation personally but from a well known and verified by myriad sources poster formally used by the EU. It was his choice to decide not to believe all those sources that said the same thing I am saying, despite whatever else they say.
That's confirmation, done on his own, and choosing to reject said confirmation for reasons that are hardly sound, the one's he gave, I can only imagine the one's he didn't.
The building exists and was modelled on the painting. Endless chatter and lawyering for a knucklehead by you just aren't going to change that.
I feel sorry for anyone who looks at what I have presented and either expresses dissaproval because they don't get it or anyone who doesn't get it. But I am not a miracle worker and can't lay my hands on anyone to open their eyes and personally am sad people are so... pardon the repetition, naive, and incapable of interpreting events, symbolism and their connection to scripture. Which is obviously deliberate.
Inventing his own conspiracy theories to try and negate a legitimate display of information and nothing untrue is absurd. Siding with him is even more absurd. You are just doing it out of spite and common inability to comprehend what you are looking at and thinking that his conspiracy theories are refutations when he made them up doesn't do you much good either.
There is no evidence the poster is anything but what everybody says it is, a discontinued EU poster with a message clear as day.
The Strasbourg Parliament building makes it more clear and whoever doesn't see it is blind.
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ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
If you can't provide a single source confirming that it was put out by the EU, I have every reason to doubt it.
Do you honestly believe a shady, conspiratorial cabal would be dumb enough to put out a poster like that? Can you imagine the design meeting?
Gertrude: Ah, Remi! Good to see you! I've been told that you have been hard at work producing the next poster for the Coucil of Europe, designed to surreptitiously influence the minds of our citizens into blind obedience of our sinister, satanic cabal. I can't wait to see it!
Remi: Then you will be pleased to know that it is complete! Behold!
Gertrude: ...
Remi: What do you think?
Gertrude: Um, Remi... Is that the tower of Babel?
Remi: You have a good eye, yes! It is based on the 16th century painting by Bruegel. I thought it really evoked what our shady, anti-God agenda really is.
Gertrude: And are those... Inverted stars?
Remi: Indeed. What would a poster for a secret, manipulative, satanic cabal be without inverted stars all over it? So, what do you think?
Gertrude: Remi, you do realize that we're trying to keep the whole... "Satan" element of our operation under wraps, right?
Remi: What do you mean?
Gertrude: I'm just saying that if we really do want to run a semi-global conspiracy with the aims of secretly overturning Christian values, rebelling against God and praising Satan, we might want to... Y'know... Be secretive about it.
Remi: Oh.
Gertrude: Yes. And I'm afraid your poster that represents EU as the tower of Babel reaching up to a circle of Satanic symbols somewhat undermines that element of the operation.
Remi: Yes. I think I see that now. Maybe I should just draw a bunch of children in a circle holding hands.
Gertrude: That would be much better, yes.
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Aberamentho
Gnosis
I don't think anyone is interested in the voices in your head.
But feel free to document them.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
But not a single source I found actually provides even a single scrap of evidence that this is true, and no official EU sources have produced any evidence either.
You do realize that lots of different websites all parroting the same information doesn't mean that information isn't nonsense, right? It happens all the time, especially with conspiracy websites. One site just has to say something, then all the other websites just repeat it without any verification that it's true.
Here are several books, sites and pages which promote the idea that there is a secret cabal of lizard-people controlling the earth:
The Weiser Field Guide to the Paranormal
Handbook of New Religions and Cultural Production
A Culture of Conspiracy
The Shadowlands Mysterious Creatures page
Do you believe them?
I'm not sure you know what "confirmation" means. It doesn't mean "lots of people say it's true".
Actually, the Louise Weiss building was modelled after Roman amphitheatres,
(SOURCE: Architecture Studio - Le Parlement Européen - Concept) which is a fairly more obvious basis for the building than a single painting of the tower of Babel - especially considering that there are many depictions of the tower throughout the history of art and they tend to vary wildly. By your standard, almost any building which features a tower - incomplete or otherwise - is evoking the tower of Babel.
I feel sorry for people too eager to believe in conspiracy theories that they will accept anything that aligns with their views without investigating or questioning it, and then accusing those who don't believe it precisely BECAUSE they have investigated and questioned it of being naive.
The irony is tremendous.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
Someone commented that the modern and older depiction of the new Tower of Babel does not represent an accurate depiction since we have no real idea about what it looked like. That actually is irrelevant since the symbolism is what counts here. When then we look at the way the numbers of the seats are numbered, it is very clear that this is the beast in Revelation that the woman is riding. That the EU is openly depicting this is irrefutable on their money, with art:
Above should be a painting of the Tower of Babel on an official EU poster saying "Many tongues one voice."
Below it a painting of the Tower next to the EU Parliament building in Strasbourg.
Genesis 11:9
Therefore it was called Babel, because there YHVH confused the language of all the earth;
"Many tongues, one voice" on an EU poster with an actual painting of the Tower of Babel and that slogan hinting as if they had reversed the Babel decree in rebellion. The symbolism is just too obvious.
Maybe as obvious as the last sentence
...and from there YHVH scattered them abroad over the face of the earth.
For those with eyes that see
eu beast with woman - Google Search
It is then clear that God's prophetic utterances in Revelation are having an obvious undeniable application on the EU, and that the eight king, (head), is the Vatican. An explanation of this head, its death, and rebirth may be found at Walter Veith's page in one of the videos he has there. On this subject he is right, though on the explanation of the image of the beast he is wrong, if I remember correctly.
The mark of the beast would then be connected to the monies with the mark of the beast depicted. How exactly this will be demonstrated I do not know.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
As I have said, by that logic any building featuring a tower is evoking the tower of Babel.
How are these two things related?
Not even close. The woman is clearly riding a bull. The beast in revelation has seven heads, ten horns adorned with crowns, with the body of a leopard, the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion.
SOURCE: Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 13:1-10 - King James Version
Do you seriously believe that statue - of a bull - accurately fits that description?
How?
Nothing you've written here makes sense.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
We don't all have to agree! Perhaps the question here is not the symbolism, but our differing ideologies! If you think nothing I provided makes sense - there is really no reason in me expanding on things.
Have a nice day.
PS. Just curious! Do you know what the beasts in Revelation and Daniel stand for? What do they represent?
We can start with that highly respected source of Christian scholarship Certain Signs. The art itself is a 1563 painting by Pieter Bruegel the Elder (as noted by Wikipedia).
The OP us drivel.
crowfeather
One
Without God, men become monsters.
Aussiescribbler
Member
I found this :
Glenn Beck's Latest Theory: EU Building In France Modeled After Mythical Tower Of Babel
That was from 2010. Now lets apply a little logic. If the image had been used on an official poster at that time, it would have been mentioned on the television program, because it would be far greater evidence of some sinister conspiracy than comparison with a painting chosen by the person presenting the conspiracy theory out of a number of paintings. Do a Google search for paintings of the Tower of Babel and you find plenty that don't look like that building. So the most likely conclusion is that the poster is a fabrication from a later date. For something fabricated to be believed and passed on by many others is not a conspiracy, it's a naturally occurring phenomenon in society.
Wikipedia says that the building is intended to mimic a Roman coliseum. But then, maybe the Roman coliseums were intended to recall the Tower of Babel.
Why would anyone base their building on an experiment that failed? Now if what was being suggested was a synchronistic acausal link between the two phenomena - the hubris of trying to reach heaven with a tower and the hubris of trying to centrally coordinate the economies of European countries (or whatever it is that the EU does) both ironically leading to the building of buildings which look alike, I might be able to see some point to the argument. But if it is all some dastardly plan to do evil while pulling the wool over the world's eyes, then it would surely make more sense to not make it look like some historical representation of general dodginess. Actually, the best way for people to get away with evil is to do it within the shelter of religion.
Now I'm not a religious person, but I do believe in the concept of an apocalypse. It seems to me that "the world" (i.e. our hierarchal and corrupt social order) is built from lies. At some point I believe those lies will become unsustainable - the truth will become apparent just as the nakedness of the emperor could no longer be denied when the little boy openly acknowledged it in Hans Christian Anderson's tale. Thus the mighty will fall, the meek will inherit the earth and the lion and the lamb will lie together. Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist to believe that this will happen without the intervention of some supernatural being, but there you have it.
These end times conspiracy theorists seem to me to be fools, not because we are not in end times, but because their theories are all about looking for signs of evil intent in others when they should be looking to themselves. This would be all the more the case for those who believe in a just God, because they have every reason to believe that the schemes of the wicked will be brought down by that God without any assistance from themselves.
Glenn Beck's Latest Theory: EU Building In France Modeled After Mythical Tower Of Babel
That was from 2010. Now lets apply a little logic. If the image had been used on an official poster at that time, it would have been mentioned on the television program, because it would be far greater evidence of some sinister conspiracy than comparison with a painting chosen by the person presenting the conspiracy theory out of a number of paintings. Do a Google search for paintings of the Tower of Babel and you find plenty that don't look like that building. So the most likely conclusion is that the poster is a fabrication from a later date. For something fabricated to be believed and passed on by many others is not a conspiracy, it's a naturally occurring phenomenon in society.
Wikipedia says that the building is intended to mimic a Roman coliseum. But then, maybe the Roman coliseums were intended to recall the Tower of Babel.
Why would anyone base their building on an experiment that failed? Now if what was being suggested was a synchronistic acausal link between the two phenomena - the hubris of trying to reach heaven with a tower and the hubris of trying to centrally coordinate the economies of European countries (or whatever it is that the EU does) both ironically leading to the building of buildings which look alike, I might be able to see some point to the argument. But if it is all some dastardly plan to do evil while pulling the wool over the world's eyes, then it would surely make more sense to not make it look like some historical representation of general dodginess. Actually, the best way for people to get away with evil is to do it within the shelter of religion.
Now I'm not a religious person, but I do believe in the concept of an apocalypse. It seems to me that "the world" (i.e. our hierarchal and corrupt social order) is built from lies. At some point I believe those lies will become unsustainable - the truth will become apparent just as the nakedness of the emperor could no longer be denied when the little boy openly acknowledged it in Hans Christian Anderson's tale. Thus the mighty will fall, the meek will inherit the earth and the lion and the lamb will lie together. Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist to believe that this will happen without the intervention of some supernatural being, but there you have it.
These end times conspiracy theorists seem to me to be fools, not because we are not in end times, but because their theories are all about looking for signs of evil intent in others when they should be looking to themselves. This would be all the more the case for those who believe in a just God, because they have every reason to believe that the schemes of the wicked will be brought down by that God without any assistance from themselves.
Logik.Ninja
New Member
If anyone else wants an official source of the poster, what about this:
Go to this official homepage:
Finding posters / Trouver les affiches
Search for this title:
Europa : viele Sprachen, eine Stimme
Gets you the poster in German. Is this more or less sinister than the English version? I let you decide. Who was the fool in the above flame war? Again: Your decision.
Go to this official homepage:
Finding posters / Trouver les affiches
Search for this title:
Europa : viele Sprachen, eine Stimme
Gets you the poster in German. Is this more or less sinister than the English version? I let you decide. Who was the fool in the above flame war? Again: Your decision.
Logik.Ninja
New Member
Here is the direct link to download the poster from the official homepage:
http://rm.coe.int/CoERMPublicCommonSearchServices/DisplayDCTMContent?documentId=090000168058cf6a
In case they take it down someday, here is the archived link in the Wayback Machine:
Wayback Machine
Sometimes truth JUST IS stranger than fiction...
http://rm.coe.int/CoERMPublicCommonSearchServices/DisplayDCTMContent?documentId=090000168058cf6a
In case they take it down someday, here is the archived link in the Wayback Machine:
Wayback Machine
Sometimes truth JUST IS stranger than fiction...