Gay and Atheist?

[Katzpur]

Okay, this is not a debate. Got that? I don't care what you believe or don't believe. I don't care who you want to sleep with. I've just made an observation and would like to get your comments.

I have noticed that there seem to be more homosexuals who profess to be atheists than there are homosexuals who profess to be theists. If this is the case, do you see a cause and effect thing at work here? It strikes me that people "decide" not to believe in God when the religion they may have been raised with (I'm thinking primarily Christianity) tells them that their affection for a loved-one of the same sex is sinful. Some seem to be able to continue to believe in God, even if they no longer consider themselves to be religious, but it seems to me that most address the conflict by deciding not to believe in God at all. If you are gay or lesbian and are also an atheist, did what you may have been told about your sexual preference in church influence your decision not to believe in God? Or was the "decision" no more of a decision than your sexual orientation?

 

[Jistyr]

I think you are assuming that all atheist homosexuals were raised in Christianity and broke away from it because of their sexual preference. I do not feel that this is the case. Someone might very well be an atheist and then discover that they are gay.

 

[Katzpur]

I think you are assuming that all atheist homosexuals were raised in Christianity and broke away from it because of their sexual preference. I do not feel that this is the case. Someone might very well be an atheist and then discover that they are gay.

I'm not saying that's not possible. I'm just asking because I see so many more gay atheists around here than gay theists.

 

[Francine]

I think you are assuming that all atheist homosexuals were raised in Christianity and broke away from it because of their sexual preference. I do not feel that this is the case. Someone might very well be an atheist and then discover that they are gay.

This isn't a great mystery. There are relatively few practicing southpaws who are Muslim, because Islam takes a very dim view of the left hand and people who prefer to use it. There are relatively few practicing homosexuals who are Christian, because Christianity takes a very dim view of same-sex attraction and the people who experience it.

 

[Katzpur]

This isn't a great mystery. There are relatively few practicing southpaws who are Muslim, because Islam takes a very dim view of the left hand and people who prefer to use it. There are relatively few practicing homosexuals who are Christian, because Christianity takes a very dim view of same-sex attraction and the people who experience it.

So it does sound like a cause and effect kind of thing. You (God) don't like my choice of sexual partners, so I'm not going to believe in you anymore. Is that right? I can understand why it could be difficult for someone to be homosexual, sexually active, and a devout Christian. That makes perfect sense to me. What I don't get is the relationship between sexual orientation and lack of belief in God.

 

[Jistyr]

I'm not saying that's not possible. I'm just asking because I see so many more gay atheists around here than gay theists.

Perhaps the gay theists are more inclined to keep their sexual preferences to themselves due to the reaction they may recieve from other religious followers? It may very well be that there are just as many gay theists as there are gay atheists, but atheists are just allowed to be more open about it.

It is very difficult to get a headcount on homosexuals, regardless of their religious beliefs.

 

[doppelganger]

So it does sound like a cause and effect kind of thing. You (God) don't like my choice of sexual partners, so I'm not going to believe in you anymore.

You may not be aware of it, but this is dripping with judgment and ignorant bias . . .

 

[Katzpur]

You may not be aware of it, but this is dripping with judgment and ignorant bias . . .

Well, thanks a bunch. It may be dripping with ignorance, but it was certainly not my intention to be judgmental. All I ever did was state my own observation and ask for comments. Seems to me your comment to me was far more judgmental than anything I've said.

 

[Katzpur]

Perhaps the gay theists are more inclined to keep their sexual preferences to themselves due to the reaction they may recieve from other religious followers? It may very well be that there are just as many gay theists as there are gay atheists, but atheists are just allowed to be more open about it.

I can see how that would be the case.

It is very difficult to get a headcount on homosexuals, regardless of their religious beliefs.

You're probably right. I'm just going by people here on RF who are openly homosexual.

 

[doppelganger]

Well, thanks a bunch. It may be dripping with ignorance, but it was certainly not my intention to be judgmental.

It never is.

All I ever did was state my own observation and ask for comments.

If you say so.

Did it occur to you that it's not about "God" not liking the "choice of sexual partners" and instead has to do with deep emotional damage from having their community (including their own family frequently, based on this same sort of religiously-inspired ignorance) reject them for who they are?

 

[Francine]

It may very well be that there are just as many gay theists as there are gay atheists, but atheists are just allowed to be more open about it.

I have seen a statistic that says theists are 94% of the American population. That is such an overwhelming number, it can't help but be the case that more gays and lesbians are theists than atheists. However, that figure is the widest possible definition of theism, it includes people who are not a part of organized religion and just have a generic belief in a creator. And it is organized religion that has organized hostility towards the LGBT community. So a casual observer might find a near total lack of gays and lesbians in traditional churches and conclude they are mostly atheist.

 

[Francine]

Did it occur to you that it's not about "God" not liking the "choice of sexual partners" and instead has to do with deep emotional damage from having their community (including their own family frequently, based on this same sort of religiously-inspired ignorance) reject them for who they are?

They say they reject them for what they do, but its none of anybody's business what they do, so you are correct, they reject them for who they are. Frubals.

 

[Katzpur]

It never is.

You ought to know me better by now.

Did it occur to you that it's not about "God" not liking the "choice of sexual partners" and instead has to do with deep emotional damage from having their community (including their own family frequently, based on this same sort of religiously-inspired ignorance) reject them for who they are?

I can absolutely see why the emotional damage you're speaking of would cause a homosexual person to call it quits when it comes to the Church. But God and the Church are not one and the same. I'm wondering if lack of belief in God is a conscious choice or not. I don't know why that pushes one of your buttons.

All of the homosexual Christians I know of have managed to reconcile their own behavior with what they personally believe the Bible teaches on the subject. They have come to the conclusion (and it's not my intention to say whether that conclusion is justified or not, regardless of you may think) that their sexual conduct is perfectly within the bounds of Christian doctrine. I think they are probably in the minority, though. I'm wondering about the others. When they decide to no longer be a part of Christianity (or Islam or Judaism, as the case may be), it is because of the persecution they have experienced or because a belief in God no longer makes sense to them?

 

[Sunstone]

**MOD POST**

Please stick to the topic at hand and do not speculate about each other.

Thank you.
​

 

[Jistyr]

I have seen a statistic that says theists are 94% of the American population. That is such an overwhelming number, it can't help but be the case that more gays and lesbians are theists than atheists. However, that figure is the widest possible definition of theism, it includes people who are not a part of organized religion and just have a generic belief in a creator. And it is organized religion that has organized hostility towards the LGBT community. So a casual observer might find a near total lack of gays and lesbians in traditional churches and conclude they are mostly atheist.

How true. Frubals on you!

 

[Katzpur]

I have seen a statistic that says theists are 94% of the American population. That is such an overwhelming number, it can't help but be the case that more gays and lesbians are theists than atheists. However, that figure is the widest possible definition of theism, it includes people who are not a part of organized religion and just have a generic belief in a creator. And it is organized religion that has organized hostility towards the LGBT community. So a casual observer might find a near total lack of gays and lesbians in traditional churches and conclude they are mostly atheist.

Good point. See, I can see rejection of organized religion as a logical response to the hostility. I can't see the rejection of God from the same perspective -- unless it's as I described before: anger with God and a resulting decision to not believe any more. But if there was genuine belief prior to the persecution, is it really a decision at all?

 

[Smoke]

I have noticed that there seem to be more homosexuals who profess to be atheists than there are homosexuals who profess to be theists.

That's probably true on these forums, but I don't think it's true generally. Most of the LGBTs I know are theists, although most of them don't attend services at a Christian church -- except for the Catholics and the ones who belong to the United Church of Christ. Some of them are Unitarians or pagans, but the majority identify as Christians but have a negative opinion of "organized religion."

If this is the case, do you see a cause and effect thing at work here? It strikes me that people "decide" not to believe in God when the religion they may have been raised with (I'm thinking primarily Christianity) tells them that their affection for a loved-one of the same sex is sinful. Some seem to be able to continue to believe in God, even if they no longer consider themselves to be religious, but it seems to me that most address the conflict by deciding not to believe in God at all. If you are gay or lesbian and are also an atheist, did what you may have been told about your sexual preference in church influence your decision not to believe in God? Or was the "decision" no more of a decision than your sexual orientation?

In my case, I left Christianity precisely because of the way Christianity treats LGBTs and women, but at that point I was still a theist. I didn't make a conscious decision to become an atheist; but not too long after I renounced Christianity, I realized that I no longer believed in God.

So I'd say that the way the churches treat LGBTs didn't lead directly to my atheism, but it was definitely a factor in the process of my becoming an atheist.

 

[Somkid]

When I was a chaplain in a hospital, because I was Buddhist many gay people men and woman would ask to speak to me because they considered me as one patient said "gay friendly". I think from my experience many of the gay people I had contact with were Christians but were rejected many times. Most of the people would ask me if I knew of any gay friendly churches and sadly in Pennsylvania that was a big no your not welcome here.

 

[Fluffy]

Heya Kathryn,
I am bisexual and used to be a theist. For me, being bisexual didn't consciously drive to me atheism. Of course it might have done unconsciously but then I couldn't really tell you about that.

What I did consciously do was distance myself from those religions and theists who expressed intolerance towards different sexualities. For me, sexuality is not something that should be discriminated against so even considering it to be a sin is unacceptable as far as I am concerned. However, there are plenty of religious traditions that are accepting of different sexualities so it is quite easy to be theistic and gay especially in the UK where people are much more accepting.

At least as far as I'm concerned my bisexuality has had nothing to do with my atheism. I've spent more of my life being bi and a believer.

 

[Katzpur]

That's probably true on these forums, but I don't think it's true generally. Most of the LGBTs I know are theists, although most of them don't attend services at a Christian church -- except for the Catholics and the ones who belong to the United Church of Christ. Some of them are Unitarians or pagans, but the majority identify as Christians but have a negative opinion of "organized religion."

I see. I suspect quite a few may be Unitarians. Is the United Church of Christ more tolerant of LGBTs than most Christian Churches? And why do you think Catholic LGBTs remain in the Church? I would think that the Catholic view of homosexuality would be rather conservative, but maybe I just don't understand it correctly.

In my case, I left Christianity precisely because of the way Christianity treats LGBTs and women, but at that point I was still a theist. I didn't make a conscious decision to become an atheist; but not too long after I renounced Christianity, I realized that I no longer believed in God.

Very interesting. Do you believe you are fairly typical of LGBT atheists or would that be too subjective a question to try to answer?

So I'd say that the way the churches treat LGBTs didn't lead directly to my atheism, but it was definitely a factor in the process of my becoming an atheist.

Thanks for your candor, Bill!