Gay and Atheist?

[Me Myself]

Okay, this is not a debate. Got that? I don't care what you believe or don't believe. I don't care who you want to sleep with. I've just made an observation and would like to get your comments.

I have noticed that there seem to be more homosexuals who profess to be atheists than there are homosexuals who profess to be theists. If this is the case, do you see a cause and effect thing at work here? It strikes me that people "decide" not to believe in God when the religion they may have been raised with (I'm thinking primarily Christianity) tells them that their affection for a loved-one of the same sex is sinful. Some seem to be able to continue to believe in God, even if they no longer consider themselves to be religious, but it seems to me that most address the conflict by deciding not to believe in God at all. If you are gay or lesbian and are also an atheist, did what you may have been told about your sexual preference in church influence your decision not to believe in God? Or was the "decision" no more of a decision than your sexual orientation?

Replace "decide" not to believe in God with "realize" the way they did is bull.

Living things first hand wakes you up. Naturally, the strong degree of bull they found from their original religion made them shock too hard to the point a lot felt like getting away from theism entirely. This is no surprise given the amount of Hatred that is spilled masked as religious righteousness, and the sheer stupidity of the expectations and rationale from the religious perspective given their life options.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm totally with you on this -- at least as if we're talking about a choice in a Higher Power. I don't see myself as "choosing to believe in God" any more than I see myself "choosing to be attracted to men." On the other hand, I see my choice of specific religion to be more of a choice, based on doctrines I can see as providing answers to some of life's questions. Theoretically speaking, I might be able to reject my religious beliefs as false, but it would be almost impossible for me to reject the spiritual sense I have that there is a God.

Yes, dear. There are many people like you here in these forums. People who have a very literal vocation towards belief in God, albeit not really towards a very specific theology.

I have met many, both online and offline, and it is my pleasure to say that you are among the most pleasant and inspiring people I have ever met. Yes, this means you personally too. I love the way you consistently show good will and the courage to ask the difficult questions and hear the answers.

That said, I don't believe that such a vocation is really typical of believers. Many (perhaps most) of the people who believe themselves to be theists don't have such a vocation and may well fail to appreciate that it may exist. For them belief in God is learned in some way or another, or even accidental; it is not a core part of their mental/emotional/spiritual structure.

Those people, whom I personally believe to be somewhere between 40% and 90% of all people, tend to share whatever beliefs their environment encourages them to have; it is simply not a crucial matter for them.

But if it turns out that their environment presents mainly theistic religions with a preponderance of homophobic practice (and that is the case for both Christianity and Islam, although I don't at all see why it has to be so), it is only natural to expect those of them who are gay to decide that the deal is not worth the inner conflict. It is quite difficult to hear one's supposed faith brothers tell me that I should feel shame for being what I am and for wanting to seek my own happiness. If avoiding such mistreatment means getting away from the faith, then so be it. If it turns out that without the encouragement of the church I find out that I don't believe in God after all, then hey, no big deal. It is just one more among many changes big and small that come from leaving that group.

 

[Katzpur]

I have met many, both online and offline, and it is my pleasure to say that you are among the most pleasant and inspiring people I have ever met. Yes, this means you personally too. I love the way you consistently show good will and the courage to ask the difficult questions and hear the answers.

I'm speechless, Luis. That's just about the nicest thing anybody on this forum has ever said to me.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I am making an outright guess here, but if you are a practicing member of a church and are brought to a point on dissonance which leads you to reject the teachings of that church, I am supposing you have had a long period of time associating God and Church.

Without any evidence, it doesn't appear ridiculous to me that you would either
1) Reject the Church outright, in which case it would be potentially quite difficult psychologically to separate God and Religion. Some would manage it, but some would probably not.

2) Try to find a Church with largely the same belief structure but with different teachings about the aspect of it you have rejected. In this case prejudice against homosexuality. In this case you would be isolating your rejection of the Church to rejection of certain teachings only.

Your separation of Church and God makes sense to me Katzpur, but people aren't always wired that way. Plus, I was bought up in a family with non-practising parents and sister (all believe in God, but...), and I'm straight, so it's not like I have any personal experience to fall-back on. Probably just talking through my hat, in truth...lol

 

[Alceste]

I know I'm jumping in late and someone probably already brought this up, but there are several factors to consider, assuming it's true that there are more gay atheists than theists.

1. In general, gay people have to go through a lot more self reflection than straight people in order to reconcile the conflict between their experience and observations of the world and what they have been taught the world should look and feel like. Questioning received wisdom is habit forming and transformative.

2. In general, gay Christians who do not develop the habit of questioning received wisdom just pretend they are straight. Their homosexuality might be expressed as anything ranging from extreme, visceral homophobia to anonymous hook-ups with gay prostitutes or strangers in airport bathrooms.

3. Many people, if not most, seek out a belief system that aligns with their own values and ethics, and affirms their sense of wellbeing and self-respect. Just as a Chinese person isn't going to stick around a church that preaches God hates Chinese people, a gay person is not going to hang around an anti-gay church unless he or she wants to have a go at pretending to be straight. Since there are loads of Christian churches that have no problem with homosexuality, there's no real basis for concluding God has a problem with homosexuality, and therefore no reason to assume gay people are leaving Christianity because they don't like God's rules. Those are your church's rules, not God's. UU, United or Anglican churches are all perfectly suitable denominations for gay people.

 

[Warren Clark]

So many threads from over a year ago its crazy i missed this one.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Okay, this is not a debate. Got that? I don't care what you believe or don't believe. I don't care who you want to sleep with. I've just made an observation and would like to get your comments.

I have noticed that there seem to be more homosexuals who profess to be atheists than there are homosexuals who profess to be theists. If this is the case, do you see a cause and effect thing at work here? It strikes me that people "decide" not to believe in God when the religion they may have been raised with (I'm thinking primarily Christianity) tells them that their affection for a loved-one of the same sex is sinful. Some seem to be able to continue to believe in God, even if they no longer consider themselves to be religious, but it seems to me that most address the conflict by deciding not to believe in God at all. If you are gay or lesbian and are also an atheist, did what you may have been told about your sexual preference in church influence your decision not to believe in God? Or was the "decision" no more of a decision than your sexual orientation?

I only know of one person who is gay and believes. He stopped committing the act when he realised it was wrong. There is nothing more I can add.

 

[columbus]

I only know of one person who is gay and believes. He stopped committing the act when he realised it was wrong. There is nothing more I can add.

I know of a whole denomination built around gay Christians.

It is called Jesus MCC.

Tom

 

[Demonslayer]

You know this whole God being upset about homosexuality is all just a big misunderstanding. Westboro Baptist just had a misspelling on all their signs.

It's really "God Hates Figs" and it's a reference to Matthew 21:19. So can we just put this issue to rest already??

MAT 21:19: Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

 

[Demonslayer]

I only know of one person who is gay and believes. He stopped committing the act when he realised it was wrong. There is nothing more I can add.

He stopped committing "the act" when he realized it was wrong? By "the act" I'm assuming you mean going to church and worshiping an angry cosmic overlord? Good for him!

 

[GodlessHeathen]

Okay, this is not a debate. Got that? I don't care what you believe or don't believe. I don't care who you want to sleep with. I've just made an observation and would like to get your comments.

I have noticed that there seem to be more homosexuals who profess to be atheists than there are homosexuals who profess to be theists. If this is the case, do you see a cause and effect thing at work here? It strikes me that people "decide" not to believe in God when the religion they may have been raised with (I'm thinking primarily Christianity) tells them that their affection for a loved-one of the same sex is sinful. Some seem to be able to continue to believe in God, even if they no longer consider themselves to be religious, but it seems to me that most address the conflict by deciding not to believe in God at all. If you are gay or lesbian and are also an atheist, did what you may have been told about your sexual preference in church influence your decision not to believe in God? Or was the "decision" no more of a decision than your sexual orientation?

I know I'm about 8 years late to this, but I thought it was an interesting enough question to add my take to it. It's important to note that correlation is not causation.

Pew Research Center's Social & Demographic Trends released the findings Thursday, which stated that of those surveyed, 48 percent of LGBT Americans considered themselves without a religious affiliation; this compares to 20 percent of the general public.

So 48% of LGBT Americans are without a religious affiliation. That's worded a bit ambiguously because sometimes non-denominational Christians put themselves in this category. So it's not necessarily 48% who are atheist, but even still, it implies that 52% are with a religious affiliation. So probably a small majority of LGBT Americans are theistic. I don't think that homosexuals become atheist because Christianity teaches that homosexuality is sinful. I know from experience being raised as a Roman Catholic that my transition into atheism was not easy. I had a deep emotional attachment to the idea of believing in God. I wouldn't have abandoned it for such superficial reasons. Then again, not everyone shares my experiences. There are probably some cases where homosexual Christians, who cannot change who they love, become frustrated with being told they are a sinful person and must change. That may explain why so many might be "non-denominational Christians" or outright atheists. They will likely find more acceptance. But generally speaking, I would think it takes more than that to change someone's fundamental belief in God.