From the perspective of a non believer, what would you think of your position

[InformedIgnorance]

From the perspective of a non believer:

What do you think a non believer would say is your theological position's best aspect or greatest accomplishment - the high point of what a non believer might think of your theological position?

Likewise what do you think you would say as a non believer is the single worst aspect of your position?



For me, an Ignostic, it is rather difficult since few people know what that means, but were they to know what an ignostic is I would assume, that the best thing they might say about ignosticism is that it tries to be accurate and the worst thing they might say is that it is a waste of time, that it is not a position (it isnt really) and that people who practice it are 'pin heads' (go bill'o)

 

[MatthiasGould]

I'd say one of Islam's fundamental high points is that no other series of beliefs, religious or otherwise has managed over the course of history to unite such a large amount of people as to amount into more than a billion people. A fundamental belief of Islam is the concept of the 'ummah' or nation whereby all Muslims are united in faith, even where they may live in different countries, speak different languages or within non-Muslim and Muslim countries. This is also reflected in practice where fundamental practices such as the prayers or reciting Qur'an remain the same, whether you're in a mosque in America, Europe or anywhere else for that matter.

Worst bit is likely going to be the extremism. Islam within the UK in particular (can't comment on any other countries) there has been a major issue where extremist preachers have either been living within this country, or have travelled into the country, to preach extremist positions including terrorist training and seperation of Muslims from non-Muslims.

 

[Alceste]

Taoism came up with internal martial arts, which are pretty awesome.

I can't of anything bad, except perhaps Confucianism.

 

[Me Myself]

Crazy as a position, fun as a final fantasy game, and manageable as the way that I live by it,

 

[paarsurrey]

My position is very secure.

 

[sandandfoam]

My wife is an atheist.
She would like the comfort my faith provides me with.
My understanding of her view is that the worst thing about religion is that it often deprives people of independent thought and action.

 

[paarsurrey]

My wife is an atheist.
She would like the comfort my faith provides me with.
My understanding of her view is that the worst thing about religion is that it often deprives people of independent thought and action.

Truthful religion does not deprive anybody of one's independent and sincere thought; in fact it is a sign of a believer that he believes with foresight and wisdom:

[25:74] And those who, when they are reminded of the Signs of their Lord, fall not deaf and blind thereat;
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=25&verse=73

 

[Breathe]

I can't of anything bad, except perhaps Confucianism.

What do you mean?

 

[FearGod]

My wife is an atheist.
My understanding of her view is that the worst thing about religion is that it often deprives people of independent thought and action.

Same feelings when obeying the trafic laws,nobody like orders and dictation.

The worst thing is "Don't smoke",it also deprives people of independent thought,decision and action and even affecting their own moods.

But obeying rules and orders are good for the society in its outcome.

 

[sandandfoam]

But obeying rules and orders are good for the society in its outcome.

I disagree. The Third Reich was a very regulated and ordered society.
Independent thought, questioning, accountability and the challenging of established knowledge is good for society.

 

[Alceste]

What do you mean?

Confucianism took the idea that we should behave in harmony with nature and turned it into prescribed roles that he felt were natural. Quite radically different from the original philosophy, and brutal, particularly for women. Ancient philosophers weren't very good at guessing what is natural for women!

Not an awesome philosophy for men either, it's mostly about obedience to authority and duty. Really caught on, though.

 

[FearGod]

I disagree. The Third Reich was a very regulated and ordered society.
Independent thought, questioning, accountability and the challenging of established knowledge is good for society.

Do you mean independent thoughts away of god's laws is good for society.

Like don't indulge in adultery,drugs..etc

Would you please clarify your point,do you think living away of god laws can
be good for one community.

 

[Breathe]

Confucianism took the idea that we should behave in harmony with nature

Do you mean by nature? Tian?

and turned it into prescribed roles that he felt were natural.

Mm... not quite; to be fair to Confucius, he stopped some rites such as human sacrifice. (IIRC, he also requested a bird go free); he didn't blindly adhere to them, and customs, manners, and culture were really important in Zhou Dynasty China - even to the point where there is a record of soldier who killed the most opponents on the battlefield being killed, because he had been discourteous.

Looking at it from modern eyes, sure.

Quite radically different from the original philosophy,

Which original philosophy?

and brutal, particularly for women.

Wait, how?? In what way is it "brutal"? Seems a bit of a harsh thing to say.

Really caught on, though.

Most likely, because it worked in the world; only recently have values changed.

It also encourages living in the world, without monasticism; to quote the book I spoke of earlier (from memory, it's not word for word), "To the Confucian, it [Confucianism] doesn't require escapism. It doesn't try to become a hermit or a drunken master. The world still requires people to grow the grapes and make them into wine, and this is where the Confucian is."

 

[sandandfoam]

Do you mean independent thoughts away of god's laws is good for society.

Like don't indulge in adultery,drugs..etc

Would you please clarify your point,do you think living away of god laws can
be good for one community.

Gods laws...
I try to behave in a way that I believe is right. I often fail. I count myself lucky to know God and I count myself even luckier to know that God is merciful.
I believe most people try to behave in a way that is right. I believe that to do so is part of our nature. God will administer His law as He sees fit.
Human laws pertain to a world that is black and white. I am not a huge fan of human enforced laws. I try to live in accord with what I believe God wants - but that comes from inside not out. Human law is used to oppress and enslave. To my mind a free and independent thinking society is already half way to God.

I am not in a position to speak for God. God will judge me when the time comes and I pray and trust that I will be judged with mercy.
I do not believe anyone or anything lives apart from Gods laws. Not even the birds in the trees. Human laws are a different matter. Even (and perhaps especially)
when humans believe themselves to speak for God.

 

[FearGod]

Gods laws...
I try to behave in a way that I believe is right. I often fail. I count myself lucky to know God and I count myself even luckier to know that God is merciful.
I believe most people try to behave in a way that is right. I believe that to do so is part of our nature. God will administer His law as He sees fit.
Human laws pertain to a world that is black and white. I am not a huge fan of human enforced laws. I try to live in accord with what I believe God wants - but that comes from inside not out. Human law is used to oppress and enslave. To my mind a free and independent thinking society is already half way to God.

I am not in a position to speak for God. God will judge me when the time comes and I pray and trust that I will be judged with mercy.
I do not believe anyone or anything lives apart from Gods laws. Not even the birds in the trees. Human laws are a different matter. Even (and perhaps especially)
when humans believe themselves to speak for God.

What do you mean that no one is living apart from Gods laws.

Do you think for example the rapists and murderers are also living according to god's laws or apart of it.

Don't you think that there is good and bad things in life and that we need to follow god's laws to avoid bad things such as adultery.

 

[sandandfoam]

What do you mean that no one is living apart from Gods laws.

Everyone and everything lives because God wills it. Even those who do terrible things.

Do you think for example the rapists and murderers are also living according to god's laws or apart of it.

I believe everyone is accountable one way or another for their actions.

Don't you think that there is good and bad things in life and that we need to follow god's laws to avoid bad things such as adultery

I try to live according to what I believe to be Gods will. Is adultery necessarily bad? I presume you think so, but I choose not to interprest Gods law for others.
People in greenhouses shouldn't throw stones and we're all in greenhouses as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Sir Doom]

From the perspective of a non believer:

What do you think a non believer would say is your theological position's best aspect or greatest accomplishment - the high point of what a non believer might think of your theological position?

Likewise what do you think you would say as a non believer is the single worst aspect of your position?

That they don't know a thing about it, on both counts.