French Burka Ban

[RitalinO.D.]

I wasn't really criticizing democratic societies in particular as much as i was talking about the concept in general, that i think to let the majority do whatever they like to the minority with no limits is unfair. And like i said (not sure if its in this thread or the other one) i'm disgusted with what goes on in those Muslim countries just the same.

Oh no, I wasn't taking it at criticism at all. Was just making a point that it is a problem that exists everywhere. Sorry If I made it seem otherwise. It's an oppressive mindset that needs to be eliminated no matter where it occurs.

 

[Badran]

Oh no, I wasn't taking it at criticism at all. Was just making a point that it is a problem that exists everywhere. Sorry If I made it seem otherwise. It's an oppressive mindset that needs to be eliminated no matter where it occurs.

I agree.

 

[Nooj]

and in the city of Bethlehem for example, has about 10-15% Christian population left

At least some of that can be blamed on Israel. The population is bleeding out because the West Bank isn't a nice place to live in at all.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

At least some of that can be blamed on Israel. The population is bleeding out because the West Bank isn't a nice place to live in at all.

Regardless of who can be blamed for it, the fact is Christian and Jewish leaders/buildings are actively targeted by hit squads(for lack of a better term).

 

[Nooj]

I'm aware of religious minorities being discriminated against in those countries. It's one of the reasons why I like living here.

 

[sojourner]

French burka ban: police arrest two veiled women - Telegraph

I think this is too extreme. I would not support a government's right to tell people they can't wear something that they voluntarily dress in.

Thoughts?

Schools have dress codes, designed to minimize intimidation and threat. What's your point?

 

[TashaN]

that muslims don't respect the country they live in.

Why people speak as if Muslims in Europe MUST be outsiders, not citizens of the country they live in?

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Why people speak as if Muslims in Europe MUST be outsiders, not citizens of the country they live in?

If they immigrated to that country, and made no effort to blend into said society, then they will naturally be seen as outcast. It differs little from China Towns and Little Italy's across the US. They purposely segregate themselves so that outcast mentality is only natural.

 

[PhAA]

Hmm.. Security reasons.. Does this law mean that France has no other capability of protecting their country? Are the politicians there that closed-minded to believe in stigmas like that? They're just fueling people's fear of terrorism and muslims, that it could be interchangeable.

I'm an Atheist but sometimes I can't help being an idealist, that the world will have ultimate equality. Although I know that seems impossible.lol

 

[sandandfoam]

French burka ban: police arrest two veiled women - Telegraph

I think this is too extreme. I would not support a government's right to tell people they can't wear something that they voluntarily dress in.

Thoughts?

I agree with you.
Sarkozy is a fascist and he is chasing Le Pens xenophobic vote. I believe this is the issue. Hope the French people give him the boot soon.

 

[sandandfoam]

Why people speak as if Muslims in Europe MUST be outsiders, not citizens of the country they live in?

Your point is a fair one TashaN. I understand Islam is a universal religion but I believe it's going to take a while until a distinctly European flavour emerges.
I think it's going to be interesting to see it evolve over the comeing decades as more and more Europeans become Muslim.

 

[waitasec]

i don't know..your face is your identity...
i don't see a problem with covering the hair and the entire body...but the face?
seems like common sense to me...

otherwise what's to stop anyone from walking around masking their identity?
the line has to be drawn somewhere...

 

[sandandfoam]

..your face is your identity...
..

Says who?



For many 'Islamic' dress is an expression of identity. Why should one take on identity trump another?

 

[blackout]

Says who?



For many 'Islamic' dress is an expression of identity. Why should one take on identity trump another?

You cannot take your face on and off.
You can't say, "No, my sister was wearing my face on Tuesday",
that wasn't me.

Your face IDENTIFIES you to others.

 

[sandandfoam]

You cannot take your face on and off.
You can't say, "No, my sister was wearing my face on Tuesday",
that wasn't me.

Your face IDENTIFIES you to others.

Sure - as can your gait, your fingerprints etc etc - my point is that ok ones face might be one way of expressing their identity. But who has the right to say it's the only one?
I don't accept my face is my identity. I don't accept the notion that I have a single identity. Must I be forced into someone else's concept of identity?

 

[blackout]

There are still people on this forum
who would argue that a school
would have a RIGHT to tell MY kids
they can not wear brightly colored hair.

Even though this would infringe on THEIR IDENTITY
/manner of personal Self expression,
noT only during school hours
but also after school and on weekends and days off.

I guess stick a bag over their heads then,
or tie a scarf, or wear a hat
(which are generally not allowed at school either)
to cover their hair during school hours,
to preserve the I'dentity THEY hold dear underneath.


Same goes for facial piercings. and tattoos.



Just pointing out the crazy double standards people hold to.


I agree, aside from driving, banks, airports,
the govt. should not get in people's way of wearing body bags.
No. I don't like them.
But you may not like my hair.
so what.
I'm not falling apart over it.

 

[sandandfoam]

There are still people on this forum
who would argue that a school
would have a RIGHT to tell MY kids
they can not wear brightly colored hair.

Even though this would infringe on THEIR IDENTITY
/manner of personal Self expression,
no only during school hours
but also after school and on weekends and days off.

I guess stick a bag over their heads then,
or tie a scarf, or wear a hat
to cover their hair during school hours,
to preserve the I'dentity THEY hold dear underneath.

Same goes for facial piercings. and tattoos.



Just pointing out the crazy double standards people hold to.


I agree, aside from driving, banks, airports,
the govt. should not get in people's way of wearing body bags.
No. I don't like them.
But you may not like my hair.
so what.
I'm not falling apart over it.

Now I agree with you Violet.
If someone wants to wear a burqa, a superman suit or nothing at all they should be free to do so. It is none of the governments business.

 

[blackout]

Sure - as can your gait, your fingerprints etc etc - my point is that ok ones face might be one way of expressing their identity. But who has the right to say it's the only one?
I don't accept my face is my identity. I don't accept the notion that I have a single identity. Must I be forced into someone else's concept of identity?

Police lineup: now all you body bags walk!
"Please Identify the guilty gait mam"

I don't care HOW ANYBODY chooses to express their personal identity.
I'm all for individual's rights to express their own personal identities.
More that probably anyone else on this forum.

I'm just pointing out the obvious.
Full face and body coverings,
shield the rest of us from seeing WHO is inside.
Simple.
There really is nothing at all to defend here.
It's a simple truth.
And it is EXACTLY the POINT of such a mode of expressive dress.

 

[sandandfoam]

Police lineup: now all you body bags walk!
"Please Identify the guilty gait mam"

I don't care HOW ANYBODY chooses to express their personal identity.
I'm all for individual's rights to express their own personal identities.
More that probably anyone else on this forum.

I'm just pointing out the obvious.
Full face and body coverings,
shield the rest of us from seeing WHO is inside.
Simple.
There really is nothing at all to defend here.
It's a simple truth.
And it is EXACTLY the POINT of such a mode of expressive dress.

Motorbike helmets, ski masks, neck tubes, fancy dress.....

 

[waitasec]

Says who?

well for one, the french...

For many 'Islamic' dress is an expression of identity. Why should one take on identity trump another?

actually, no identity is their identity.

they should adapt to the new culture/laws...

how about this...
in california if a couple divorces and they have been married for a certain amount of time, everything that is considered community property is split 50/50...should this not apply to muslim women who happen to live in california?

the line has to be drawn somewhere.
it's the law...why should there be double standards for the religious?