Freedom index 2021.

[Twilight Hue]

I’ve been to New York. Felt pretty free to me. No police stopped me in the street and asked to see my papers, which is an experience I’ve had in other supposedly free countries. Everyone seemed very tolerant of each other. I stayed in the Bronx too, but felt pretty safe everywhere I went. I’d go back tomorrow, loved NYC

Live there for a few years and get back to me.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I did get pulled over an awful lot when I was younger. I wasn't doing anything, other than having a junky car. Which isn't illegal.

Once I got my car searched(I had a tail light out). I told the officer to have fun; all he would find was a mess. He found a rotten snack under a seat that the then-toddler had deposited, and that was enough for him. I thought sticking his hand in that was a good pay back.

Having been poor, and not being poor now, I think the poor face more discrimination that can sometimes be restrictive.

Yea. Profiling gets police attention pretty quick.

Lol I was pulled over as a teen as well.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Live there for a few years and get back to me.

I doubt I could afford it. It’s not free in that sense, granted. Did you prefer it in the 70s?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I doubt I could afford it. It’s not free in that sense, granted. Did you prefer it in the 70s?

I dunno if i would survive with all those gangs and the mob roaming about. But it most certainly was cheaper then it is today. *grin*

I'd stay away from NYC. Couldn't pay me enough to live in that cesspool.

 

[JustGeorge]

Toys with meals for the young uns.

You can't get toys with your meals there?

The businesses who can no longer provide a means of free choice for consumers who now have to purchase their own means of conveyance from the store to their car.

But isn't this an example of the business's freedom?

People who cannot choose their own doctors anymore.

Yeah, that would really tick me off. How are doctors chosen there?

The free carrying of firearms that now requires permits and licenses.

I can't help but approve on this one. Sorry.

The loss of property rights to do whatever you want with your own land and house.

That would anger me, too. Can you give me some examples of what one can/can't do with their property there?

Smokers who have no public place of their choosing to smoke inside.

This one's kinda sticky. After all, one does have the right not to inhale other's smoke, too... is one allowed to smoke outdoors in New York?

On a broader scale you are now open to rampant warrantless surveillance and interventions both govt and private without a means of recourse.

This is a problem. I don't think it will change unless we(as a people) do, and we ain't gonna.

Free speech is relegated to 'zones' or 'designated forums'.

I'm all for not being a jerk, but I also believe in one having the right to be a jerk.

I'm also not real sympathetic to people that suffer consequences to poorly thought out speech.

I had a roommate that used to say cruel things to me. I told him not to talk to me like that in my house(he was living there because we allowed it, often not paying). He cited freedom of speech.

I asked him what he thought would happen if he went to the bar down the block and shouted a racial slur(the bar had a mostly Black clientele). He said "I'd get my *** kicked!" I asked if he thought anyone would feel sorry for him. He said no. And then he said point taken.

Kids are now handcuffed and treated as adults and families are prone to rearing their own children by state mandate rather then traditionally by themselves.

We have a lot of gang issues locally, and its not uncommon for kids to shoot and kill each other. I'm for trying them as an adult in these cases. On the other hand, you're right, there is definitely a phenomenon of a 'right' and 'wrong' way to parent, instead of acknowledging diversity. I am thankful I don't homeschool in New York. I imagine it would offer a lot more roadblocks than what I'm given here.

You tend to notice what's missing as you age and look back into time. People born later probably wont notice the degradation until generations later and make comparisons of what they could do in the past and what they can't do presently.

I do notice a lot of the restrictions faced on a daily basis here seem more society dolled and less government dolled. Its imaginary, of course, but harsh judgement and 'canceling' people (I'm not talking in a political context ,but rather a personal one) can really altar behavior.

 

[JustGeorge]

Yea. Profiling gets police attention pretty quick.

Lol I was pulled over as a teen as well.

As a teen? Heck, I was still getting pulled over until I was in my 30s.

It was, I feel, because my cars were old.

Once I even got a ticket for no seat belt....when I was wearing my seat belt!!!!! Because I am top heavy, I tuck the belt under my arm, or it goes up and cuts my neck(and would be bad business in a crash). Officer said because it wasn't on my chest, she didn't care. I explained, and she said it wasn't her problem.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I dunno if i would survive with all those gangs and the mob roaming about. But it most certainly was cheaper then it is today. *grin*

I'd stay away from NYC. Couldn't pay me enough to live in that cesspool.

Each to their own, I guess. I’m a Londoner, NY is one of the few cities I’ve been in the world that seems to have a similar vibrancy.

 

[RestlessSoul]

As a teen? Heck, I was still getting pulled over until I was in my 30s.

It was, I feel, because my cars were old.

Once I even got a ticket for no seat belt....when I was wearing my seat belt!!!!! Because I am top heavy, I tuck the belt under my arm, or it goes up and cuts my neck(and would be bad business in a crash). Officer said because it wasn't on my chest, she didn't care. I explained, and she said it wasn't her problem.

That’s a pretty shabby trick from the cop.

I got pulled over in Malaga, Spain once for riding a motorbike without a helmet. No one ever wore a helmet in Spain back then, and while the cop was writing me up, probably a dozen other bikers cruised past without helmets on; he didn’t bat an eye at them, but then they were locals and I wasn’t.

 

[anna.]

I don't feel free.

In New York people are told what they can and cannot do in just about every aspect of their lives both public and private.

You don't think that happens in New Zealand? IIRC they've had one of the strictest pandemic protocols out there.

 

[Stevicus]

Maybe we need to give the Statue of Liberty to New Zealand as the most free place on earth.


The US keeps slipping down the scale and frankly, we don't deserve the Statue of Liberty anymore.


Freedom Index By Country 2021

One of the biggest shockers is looking at the entire world, freedom is now smaller than ever.

Tyranny and constraint seems to now be the norm for most of earths populations and it hasn't improved over the years.

It looks like freedom is shrinking away pretty fast to a point I'm asking one question.


What's going on?

Another annual survey done by Freedom House seems more accurate to me.

Countries and Territories | Freedom House

A key difference seems to be Hong Kong. In the Cato Institute survey you posted, Hong Kong is said to be the third freest territory in the world, but we know that's not true. The Freedom House survey only lists them as "Partly Free," towards the middle of the list.

The U.S. didn't fare too well, at least when compared to other countries. Even Mongolia and the Czech Republic are more free than the U.S. Our overall score was 83. If we can slip it down a few more points to 71, we'll be in the "Partly Free" category.

We'd have to change the words of the "Star Spangled Banner."

"...And the land of the partly freeeeeee....
And the home of the partly brave!"

 

[Regiomontanus]

I'm in Iowa. It does cost. Actually, its only allowed in recognized campgrounds. If you get caught camping off of those grounds, you face a fine.

Well, I guess it depends on what kind of camping you are up for. I like to hike in state forests and just pitch a tent at some good spot off the trail. Primitive camping is free, even in Iowa. In fact, check this out:

"Additionally, five backcountry pack-in campsites in the Woodburn Unit have picnic tables and fire rings at each campsite, along with a water hydrant available at the trailhead. There is no fee for these pack-in sites and they are first-come, first-serve. They do not have modern restroom facilities or electricity."

Stephens State Forest, Iowa

I would bet some of the other four state forests have that too. By the way, I just read that your state has...43,900 acres of state forest total. My condolences . I find that shocking, as in PA we have several state forests in the many hundreds of thousands of acres each plus many smaller ones all bigger than your state total acreage. Can you image what Iowa looked like before the Europeans moved in?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What's going on?

They do a lot of that "nanny state" stuff.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The businesses who can no longer provide a means of free choice for consumers who now have to purchase their own means of conveyance from the store to their car.

That sounds like you want to be a freeloader and that you expect things for free.
You aren't to freebies, shopping bags or otherwise, from private companies.

Such as the banning of saturated fats in restaurants.

It's a dangerous toxin. Do you have problems with banning lead pipes and asbestos in paint?

Toys with meals for the young uns.

That toy is predatory manipulation to turn children into loyal customers. They should go, as should the entire field that studies children's advertising.

People who cannot choose their own doctors anymore.

Not true.

The free carrying of firearms that now requires permits and licenses.

It should be that way. They are too dangerous to let anyone carry them around, and lots of us are fed up with living in a First World nation that suffers Third World gun violence.

The loss of property rights to do whatever you want with your own land and house.

You've never had the right to do whatever you want, not even on your own property.

Smokers who have no public place of their choosing to smoke inside.

There is no right to endanger others. Are you against prohibitions on drunk driving?

families are prone to rearing their own children by state mandate rather then traditionally by themselves.

That's not even true here in Blue California.

 

[JustGeorge]

Well, I guess it depends on what kind of camping you are up for. I like to hike in state forests and just pitch a tent at some good spot off the trail. Primitive camping is free, even in Iowa. In fact, check this out:

"Additionally, five backcountry pack-in campsites in the Woodburn Unit have picnic tables and fire rings at each campsite, along with a water hydrant available at the trailhead. There is no fee for these pack-in sites and they are first-come, first-serve. They do not have modern restroom facilities or electricity."

Stephens State Forest, Iowa

I hadn't heard of this place! Even looking at the town its in, I'm unfamiliar with it. Iowa's too big.

I would bet some of the other four state forests have that too. By the way, I just read that your state has...43,900 acres of state forest total. My condolences . I find that shocking, as in PA we have several state forests in the many hundreds of thousands of acres each plus many smaller ones all bigger than your state total acreage.

This is Iowa now:

Nothing but corn, and almost none of it is for human consumption.

Can you image what Iowa looked like before the Europeans moved in?

Beautiful.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Maybe we need to give the Statue of Liberty to New Zealand as the most free place on earth.


The US keeps slipping down the scale and frankly, we don't deserve the Statue of Liberty anymore.


Freedom Index By Country 2021

One of the biggest shockers is looking at the entire world, freedom is now smaller than ever.

Tyranny and constraint seems to now be the norm for most of earths populations and it hasn't improved over the years.

It looks like freedom is shrinking away pretty fast to a point I'm asking one question.


What's going on?

I do not feel any less free now, than I did as a kid.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Look up nanny state.

Take your pick.

It's interesting, though.
I've lived and worked in New Zealand previously (for close to 2 years) and am Australian (Melbourne).
Whilst I'd see both places as very free, I don't think it's quite the sort of freedom you seem to be talking about.

Rather, the main factors considered with relation to freedom are as follows;

Personal freedom is the freedom of an individual to have freedom of opinion and expression, freedom to come and go, equality before the courts, and security of private property. Economic freedom consists of personal choice, freedom to compete in markets, protection of person and property, voluntary exchange, and allowing people to prosper without intervention from the government or economic authority.

With that in mind, there isn't a clear slam dunk definition of freedom. Being able to criticize your own government is obviously important (and something allowed in both NZ and Australia) but where government has laws around personal behaviors and responsibility, this could be both limiting personal choice, but also improving ability to compete in markets, or protection of person and proprty.

I think it's important to remember.

Just last night on the news the Justice for J6 rally was covered by an Australian crew. One person interviewed made the point that part of why they were rallying was to ensure they didn't end up in a nanny state, in the way that Australia apparently has.
Couple of things on that;
1) It's obviously just a person's point of view, so I'm not suggesting most people think that way.
2) There is a point there...in some ways we (and NZ) have some nanny state type concepts in place, and government influences daily life more than I imagine it does in some parts of America (in terms of deliberate and direct oversight, etc).
3) The important thing here...and the thing the Freedom Index does more completely than most people seem able to...is that this is really all about a balance between competing factors. If I allow completely unfettered capitalism (for example) that might seem to increase freedom. But if it results in a complete media monopoly by a single person, this decreases freedom.

Meh...in any case. New Zealand is a great place, and has a good level of personal freedom (as does Australia). But it might not be exactly in the style some people expect. Finland, Germany, etc...much the same, if in different ways.
The thing I often have trouble convincing Americans (in particular) of is that 'freedom' isn't simply a matter of having the least amount of rules.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I hadn't heard of this place! Even looking at the town its in, I'm unfamiliar with it. Iowa's too big.



This is Iowa now:
View attachment 55415
Nothing but corn, and almost none of it is for human consumption.



Beautiful.

View attachment 55416

@JustGeorge
I had to look this up for comparison. Victoria (my state) has 3.14 million hectares of state forest. That's almost 8 million acres.

Victoria is larger in land mass, but less than double the size of Iowa.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I do not feel any less free now, than I did as a kid.

Then why do you think we are so low on the scale?

 

[exchemist]

Then why do you think we are so low on the scale?

But are you (the USA) low on the scale? And have you got any lower than you used to be?

What data from the link are you referring to? I looked yesterday and couldn't see any significant change. What am I missing?

 

[Stevicus]

But are you (the USA) low on the scale? And have you got any lower than you used to be?

What data from the link are you referring to? I looked yesterday and couldn't see any significant change. What am I missing?

Not sure about the Cato Institute survey linked by the OP, although Freedom House's ranking of the U.S. showed a decline in freedom from last year.

United States: Freedom in the World 2021 Country Report | Freedom House

They note a global trend in the decline in overall freedom: Freedom in the World 2021: Democracy under Siege | Freedom House

As a lethal pandemic, economic and physical insecurity, and violent conflict ravaged the world in 2020, democracy’s defenders sustained heavy new losses in their struggle against authoritarian foes, shifting the international balance in favor of tyranny. Incumbent leaders increasingly used force to crush opponents and settle scores, sometimes in the name of public health, while beleaguered activists—lacking effective international support—faced heavy jail sentences, torture, or murder in many settings.

These withering blows marked the 15th consecutive year of decline in global freedom. The countries experiencing deterioration outnumbered those with improvements by the largest margin recorded since the negative trend began in 2006. The long democratic recession is deepening.

The impact of the long-term democratic decline has become increasingly global in nature, broad enough to be felt by those living under the cruelest dictatorships, as well as by citizens of long-standing democracies. Nearly 75 percent of the world’s population lived in a country that faced deterioration last year. The ongoing decline has given rise to claims of democracy’s inherent inferiority. Proponents of this idea include official Chinese and Russian commentators seeking to strengthen their international influence while escaping accountability for abuses, as well as antidemocratic actors within democratic states who see an opportunity to consolidate power. They are both cheering the breakdown of democracy and exacerbating it, pitting themselves against the brave groups and individuals who have set out to reverse the damage.

The malign influence of the regime in China, the world’s most populous dictatorship, was especially profound in 2020. Beijing ramped up its global disinformation and censorship campaign to counter the fallout from its cover-up of the initial coronavirus outbreak, which severely hampered a rapid global response in the pandemic’s early days. Its efforts also featured increased meddling in the domestic political discourse of foreign democracies, transnational extensions of rights abuses common in mainland China, and the demolition of Hong Kong’s liberties and legal autonomy. Meanwhile, the Chinese regime has gained clout in multilateral institutions such as the UN Human Rights Council, which the United States abandoned in 2018, as Beijing pushed a vision of so-called noninterference that allows abuses of democratic principles and human rights standards to go unpunished while the formation of autocratic alliances is promoted.

As COVID-19 spread during the year, governments across the democratic spectrum repeatedly resorted to excessive surveillance, discriminatory restrictions on freedoms like movement and assembly, and arbitrary or violent enforcement of such restrictions by police and nonstate actors. Waves of false and misleading information, generated deliberately by political leaders in some cases, flooded many countries’ communication systems, obscuring reliable data and jeopardizing lives. While most countries with stronger democratic institutions ensured that any restrictions on liberty were necessary and proportionate to the threat posed by the virus, a number of their peers pursued clumsy or ill-informed strategies, and dictators from Venezuela to Cambodia exploited the crisis to quash opposition and fortify their power